130 replies to this topic

[InSearchOfThe]

I just stumbled across a CNBC Finance broadcast with Moffei on the transaction. Both he and the female host called it MOTOR GP...On behalf of all American MOTO GP fans everywhere I apologize. The whole interview was too cringe worthy to post.
No wonder the world hates us.

[azza200]

I looked it up: the race had 15 starters! 15!

I think I went in 2012. Silverstone's funny, it feels empty unless you have 200,000 people or something.

 

Silverstone has become a soulless empty venue compared to what it was before the current layout and now that housing development  at Becketts 

[PayasYouRace]

Silverstone has become a soulless empty venue compared to what it was before the current layout and now that housing development at Becketts

It’s Silverstone. The further back in time you go, the emptier and more like a disused airfield it looks.

[Risil]

The best aspect of Silverstone is the very wide shot that shows the track within the rolling countryside. At ground level it's not that pleasant and has probably got less so as semi-natural features like earth banks, grass and trees have been removed.

[Nathan]

Silverstone has become a soulless empty venue compared to what it was before the current layout and now that housing development at Becketts

Well, if there are people living there now it isn't empty.

[Sterzo]

The best aspect of Silverstone is the very wide shot that shows the track within the rolling countryside. At ground level it's not that pleasant and has probably got less so as semi-natural features like earth banks, grass and trees have been removed.

The surrounding country roads are wonderful, and we could lay out a brilliant circuit and invite Nuvolari, Benoist and Varzi to race there. I used to think the atmosphere in the circuit would improve when the scaffold-pole and canvas temporary structures fell down, but they replaced them with permanent structures equally soulless but lacking the enticing prospect of blowing away. At least the circuit itself has been steadily improved over the years, so it makes an excellent TV-watch.

[Gravelngrass]

https://www.motorspo...rance/10593796/. I thought they had already gotten the green light and that's why they were announcing it as a done deal, but it seems this still has to go through all the regulatory agencies?

 

I'm not a lawyer, but from a layman's POV, if the same company owns the largest 4 wheel and what I think would be the largest 2 wheel racing categories (WSBK is owned by Dorna too right?), it would deserve a very close look? Honestly, seeing the current state of F1 and MotoGP, I'd prefer it if this sale was not approved. I mean, right now, both MotoGP and WSBK are the better racing alternatives to F1. What if Liberty manages to damage the two bike categories in the same way they have failed to improve F1?    

[F1 Mike]

Worse still, what if they damage them on purpose in a quest to draw less attention on them and more attention in F1?

[Gravelngrass]

Worse still, what if they damage them on purpose in a quest to draw less attention on them and more attention in F1?

That would be a pretty daft business strategy. 

[Nathan]

How has F1 failed to improve?  I've been watching it for 30 years and have never seen such a tight grid.  There is so much more access to the sport online for the fan now.  It's much more well known in America now.  Things like sprint races don't erase the clear progress.

[MikeTekRacing]

What if Liberty manages to damage the two bike categories in the same way they have failed to improve F1?    

F1 is much better than before Liberty on all accounts

[Gravelngrass]

F1 is much better than before Liberty on all accounts

I think a large part of this forum would disagree. 

[Nathan]

A large part of this forum just likes to bitch.

[ArnageWRC]

How has F1 failed to improve?  I've been watching it for 30 years and have never seen such a tight grid.  There is so much more access to the sport online for the fan now.  It's much more well known in America now.  Things like sprint races don't erase the clear progress.

 

You need to go to Specsavers......

[MikeTekRacing]

I think a large part of this forum would disagree. 

that's true but not an accurate way to measure F1

[Gravelngrass]

that's true but not an accurate way to measure F1

Nor is yours...

[NotAPineapple]

Fact is that F1 is now more popular than ever and is actually a financially sustainable business for everyone involved. I think thats a pretty accurate way to measure the success.

The opinion or foum members who are sour about F1 not being the same as it was when they were kids is immaterial.

Motorsport fans will complain about anything.

[RedRabbit]

Red Bull and KTM are probably responsible for a lot of the diversity that MotoGP currently has.

In general, what are Spain and Italy doing that the rest of the world isn't? This being motor racing eligible sponsors must be one thing.

It's just as simple as Dorna being Spanish. I read an opinion piece from an ex (SBK?) racer turned columnist/blogger on how the bias shifted heavily towards Spain after Dorna bought MotoGP (in the 90s?)

They also invested heavily into promoting Spanish riders and the national championship in Spain. When I thought about it after reading that, there is a clear shift that happens.

For the Italian influence, I imagine it's the strong motorsports history in the country that keeps driving it, and then the arrival of Valentino Rossi built on that, with his VR46 academy for Italian riders. Ironically created to battle the Spanish armada, and now contributes every Italian rider on the grid if I am correct.

[Sterzo]

Motorsport fans will complain about anything.

That's not true! Motorsport fans haven't complained about, er...

 

I'll get back to you.

[Risil]

Fact is that F1 is now more popular than ever and is actually a financially sustainable business for everyone involved. I think thats a pretty accurate way to measure the success.

The opinion or foum members who are sour about F1 not being the same as it was when they were kids is immaterial.

Motorsport fans will complain about anything.

It's undoubtedly a fact that team owners are making a lot more money from F1 than previously although I'm not sure that those of us who don't own F1 teams need to be happy for them.

I'm not sure we know yet if it's more financially sustainable for everyone, currently F1 is expanding so there's lots to go around but at some point that will stop, and perhaps Liberty will sell it on, and then we'll learn a lot more about whether the new model is really working.

As for "more popular", what does that mean? It is in some respects (I expect more people are going to races now than 20 years ago?) but perhaps not others (are more or fewer people watching on TV?)

I feel there may also be other values we could consider than "more popular" and "more profitable for owners".

[MikeTekRacing]

Nor is yours...

my what? opinion? 

I am talking just facts. F1 is thriving compared to before. Way more open, in the actual 20th century with lots more coverage, online presence, streaming. Sells out around the world 20+ races, record revenues and following. 

Is it perfect? No way.  Hate sprints, hate the crowded calendar etc. The alternative was a dying niche sport. 

Haters gonna hate anyway. 

[MikeTekRacing]

It's undoubtedly a fact that team owners are making a lot more money from F1 than previously although I'm not sure that those of us who don't own F1 teams need to be happy for them.
 

F1 had to continuously save small teams that would always struggle.

Now teams are financially viable and closer than ever in terms of performance. How is that not a great basis for a sport?

[Nathan]

Motorsports provides more schadenfreude opportunities than any other sport.

 

Fact is that F1 is now more popular than ever and is actually a financially sustainable business for everyone involved. I think thats a pretty accurate way to measure the success.

The opinion or foum members who are sour about F1 not being the same as it was when they were kids is immaterial.

Motorsport fans will complain about anything.

 

You can hang that up on the fridge.

 

I can only imagine how F1 fans of the 50's and 60's felt when cars grew wings, fat tires & sponsors. Race lengths got reduced, the calendar got 'saturated' going from 8 to 16 GPs. Sponsor banners began covering the hay bails, and people started talking about driver safety   . Then it became this TV spectacle when reading about it in the next Autosport was just as fine and dandy and didn't dictate scheduling events around the audience.

Edited by Nathan, 05 April 2024 - 18:36.

[Collombin]

They weren't F1 fans, they were motorsport fans.

There were just as many races then, in fact the top drivers raced each other even more often.

They were straw bales.

[Risil]

They were straw bales.

We should hang this up on the fridge

[Gravelngrass]

my what? opinion?
I am talking just facts. F1 is thriving compared to before. Way more open, in the actual 20th century with lots more coverage, online presence, streaming. Sells out around the world 20+ races, record revenues and following.
Is it perfect? No way. Hate sprints, hate the crowded calendar etc. The alternative was a dying niche sport.
Haters gonna hate anyway.

F1 may be more popular now, maybe more commercially successful, more mainstream, with more celebrities walking the paddock and making F1 movies, etc. But is it better racing? Show me facts about that. Again, I think most true F1 and racing fans would say no or not yet.

And “haters gonna hate anyway”? Come on, you seem smarter than that…

[Stephane]

Racing has never been that great in F1. Cars are too fast

[Myrvold]

I can only imagine how F1 fans of the 50's and 60's felt when cars grew wings, fat tires & sponsors. Race lengths got reduced, the calendar got 'saturated' going from 8 to 16 GPs. Sponsor banners began covering the hay bails, and people started talking about driver safety . Then it became this TV spectacle when reading about it in the next Autosport was just as fine and dandy and didn't dictate scheduling events around the audience.

There is a clip from Monaco in the late 60's where Graham Hill talks about things like this. He ends on somewhat of a "this is entertainment and we are entertainers" conclusion. I think it was mostly in relations to the wings at that time, but still interesting.

[Nathan]

But is it better racing? 

 

It was quite common for decades that, on average, just 4 cars finished on the lead lap.  I can take that stat up to at least 1995.  There are many seasons the average time gap first to second is over 20 seconds.  We could also reduce the 107% qualifying rule to 102% and everyone today would comfortably qualify.  The speed gap between the lead team and the 4th placed team, 8th placed, is at a historic low.  We have never had tighter grids in F1.  DRS could be said to create too much overtaking now, but I'd sooner have that than old days where cars couldn't pass until pit stops and overtaking someone came down to your in and out laps. At least we see cars regularly able to go wheel-to-wheel.  Will still have domination, but that happens at the pinnacle of every sport.  The Olympics are a great example as you have what is supposed to be the 12, 15 best athletes of a particular sport competing, and yet so often the gaps from leader back are quite large and we often see one athlete staying at or near the front through their peak competitive period. 

 

I think if you look over 70 years of results it's tough to say we are not in one of the most competitive eras front-to-back F1 has ever seen.  The 70's was on par and could compete for that claim.  

[Kulturen]

These discussions about whether racing is better or not now or in the past tend to be laughably biased and through rose coloured glasses. People tend to think F1 was brilliant in whatever era their favourites were winning.

 

Anyone who claims to be unhappy with modern F1 (not saying everything is perfect obviously) should start by telling us what era of F1 they think was better and why. Otherwise their opinion is without any value.

[Risil]

Keeping to the topic of the thread, an early 90s MotoGP race at Suzuka was better than any era of F1.