11 replies to this topic

[jody3910]

Just curious to hear others thoughts on the change in wheel tyre size and the feel of the car.

 

Since 2022 when the wheel size changed the tyre size also changed, with this change what are peoples thoughts on what this has done not only to the cars setup/handling but to the "BUTT" feel of what the cars doing.

 

I know the engineers are very clever but surely this has skewed a lot of data from the past.

 

I think with less sidewall roll some feeling has been lost with what the car is doing underneath them.

 

Curious to your thoughts. 

[Beri]

Before this gets closed; I changed from 18" rims to 21" and even I noticed a huge difference in comfort. So I can imagine the drivers having to recalibrate their senses and indeed engineers to rethink the whole tire usage and degradation schemes.

[jody3910]

Why would it get closed?

[Beri]

You need to have X amount of posts before you are allowed to open a thread. Some rule that has been around since the age of dawn up here. But luckily we can have a quick discussion because it seems that the Forum Hosts are still asleep 

[jody3910]

Ah I see! seems fair I suppose.

 

Yeah it has me thinking about correlation issues with teams previous data, and the way the car handles the bumps and weight shifts through corners.

 

I wonder if this has a few teams chasing issues caused by this, and drivers having to re asses there feel in the car.

[BRG]

As the teams start each new season with a (allegedly) brand new design, it will have been of no consequence.  And as there was a major rule change when the full size wheel was introduced, there was even less use for previous data in the design process.  

 

Despite much moaning from reactionary F1 fans in the lead up to the change of size, it has been a non-event.

[jody3910]

Can this really be that simple though!?

 

With them running the other wheels/tyres for so long surely with only a small amount of data running on this larger wheel and tyre wouldn't of been gathered at the end of year test, and fully understood what the wheel and tyre was doing.

 

Looking at the image of Rosbergs Merc going through a corner with the tyre folding under the rim, I cant remember the larger lower profile tyre doing anything like this!?

 

Which is why I wonder if it has even been considered?

[PayasYouRace]

I seem to remember the teams saying that the lower profile tyre reduces the magnitude of most of the tyre related variables. Put simply, it makes it easier to model the tyre behaviour and it makes it easier to control the car’s behaviour through the suspension.

I can imagine the teams are generally delighted with the change because it makes their lives easier. Not really head much from the drivers of how it affects their feel for the car.

[Risil]

You need to have X amount of posts before you are allowed to open a thread. Some rule that has been around since the age of dawn up here. But luckily we can have a quick discussion because it seems that the Forum Hosts are still asleep 

 

I think we can make an exception for this thread. The "new members can't start threads" rule is our somewhat heavy-handed attempt to encourage people to get a feel for things on the forum before they begin directing discussion. This topic is focused, technical, probably under-discussed, and hopefully will generate good responses.

[Beri]

I think we can make an exception for this thread. The "new members can't start threads" rule is our somewhat heavy-handed attempt to encourage people to get a feel for things on the forum before they begin directing discussion. This topic is focused, technical, probably under-discussed, and hopefully will generate good responses.

Hail to attitude like this! Hopefully this can be done more often. As previously some potentially good threads have been closed down without applying this thought.

[Grippy]

Interesting question.

 

my unscientific thoughts are that there is less difference in feel between changing wheel size on a car you are used to driving vs a new car.

Less sidewall should give a better steering feel as there is less flex as you turn, as well as less lean through a corner due to sidewall compression - presumably why sporty road cars have low profile tyres.

 

For a given distance smaller diameter tyres will do more revolutions so wear and thermal properties will likely be different.

Will there be more brake wear with wheels rotating faster for a given speed?

 

Does gyroscopic affect apply to car wheels in any meaningful way? I assume not.

I've ridden motorbikes with 23" front wheels down to 16" and gyroscopic affect means they handle very differently (16" changes direction much quicker in 'S' bends), but as the bikes are different you ride them differently without thinking about it.

On the other hand I'm downright dangerous switching between 14" and 28" wheeled pushbikes.

 

ps. " = inches

[jody3910]

My thoughts are that whilst the sidewall gives better feed back it may give that only initially, but once the tyre starts to move on the ground with a smaller side wall it would skip/slip more. The larger sidewall should keep giving grip as it rolls over?

 

If you think of BTCC wheels and tyres they tend to slide/hop once the grip gives up, but when you look at the Rosberg image (I cant get the image to post up?) it has rolled over seemingly to keep giving the grip.

 

I seem to recall Damon Hill and Martin Brundle etc all saying that with the old wheels/tyres the suspension was predominantly in the tyre (of course there is a lot more in the suspension) but it strikes me that something major has changed.