2666 replies to this topic

[WouterF1]

https://twitter.com/...jNzYI1wHgQ5OZzw

 

What exactly is this adding to the discussion?

The intention was for Newey and Amanda to travel around the world at the end of 2024. However, Newey has signed until the end of 2025, so now they would have to wait a year longer,

but that is probably not necessary if Newey is sent on gardening leave. Newey is retiring from RBR and is going to travel the world with Amanda while he is still healthy.

[PayasYouRace]

The intention was for Newey and Amanda to travel around the world at the end of 2024. However, Newey has signed until the end of 2025, so now they would have to wait a year longer,

but that is probably not necessary if Newey is sent on gardening leave. Newey is retiring from RBR and is going to travel the world with Amanda while he is still healthy.

 

Yeah that's fine. A sassy reply to a tweet non-twitter users can't even see, isn't helpful though.

[pdac]

Call me naive, but I don't think Newey's genius can be "taught" to someone else.

 

You're right, you cannot teach 'genius'. However, you can teach people about your experiences and how that makes you decide what could be fruitful and what will not be. You can pass on tips and tricks. You can train people to try to think the way you think. A 'genius' can do a lot to mentor people, even if they are never going to turn out to be a 'genius' themselves.

[WouterF1]

The intention was for Newey and Amanda to travel around the world at the end of 2024. However, Newey has signed until the end of 2025, so now they would have to wait a year longer,

but that is probably not necessary if Newey is sent on gardening leave. Newey is retiring from RBR and is going to travel the world with Amanda while he is still healthy.

 

 

Yeah that's fine. A sassy reply to a tweet non-twitter users can't even see, isn't helpful though.

 

So because a number of people don't want/can't view Twitter, we better not post Twitter messages here?! That's new to me.

 

I regularly see links from Twitter posts here and nothing has ever been said about it.

 

It would be very useful if the Twitter messages could simply be displayed here just like on other forums so that everyone can see and read them.

 

The F1 teams tweet a lot and so do the drivers.

Edited by WouterF1, 27 April 2024 - 08:30.

[FirstnameLastname]

So because a number of people don't want/can't view Twitter, we better not post Twitter messages here?! That's new to me.

I regularly see links from Twitter posts here and nothing has ever been said about it.

It would be very useful if the Twitter messages could simply be displayed here just like on other forums so that everyone can see and read them.

The F1 teams tweet a lot and so do the drivers.

Depends who you are probably.

Most of the news links on this forum are from X/Twitter and nowt gets said. And then I post a reply from actual Adrian Neweys wife regarding the topic in discussion & am held in disdain. It’s the way of life.

A way to imbed x-posts/tweets would be superb in 2024, but I believe the forum software is showing its age.

[kumo7]

Call me naive, but I don't think Newey's genius can be "taught" to someone else.

Nobody can define what genius is, so it is impossible to copy one.

But, Newey has methods based on his knowledge, which is documentable, his logic, which one could learn, his reasoning, which someone close to him can understand, his analysis, which could be told by himself, his inspiration, which is greatly based on all of these could be told to someone else. If you ask me if this could be mastered by one single person, I say perhaps not. Also, it is not necessary that there is a copy on Newey. I think it is much more exciting to find someone who does differently, but could communicate with Newey in a very instinctive level as well as very logical levels.

I think everything about car design is written in the book of nature. It is up to a designer to find relevant inspiration to connect the dots.

[GlenWatkins]

He’s Rob’s friend.

LOL!

[H0R]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned at all so far is the fact that 65 is by no means old but that his next station will probably be his last. So he'll probably consider this not as a joib like any other but one that will be particularly thought through. Money, I guess, will only be his second consideration. I say it will boild down what he excpects to be most enjoyable and interesting working environment. Of course to bring back a championship to Ferrari is a very interesting idea, to work with Lewis Hamilton just as much. But then Iit has been reported that Newey always preferred to stay in England, so that'll speak against Ferrari.

Bottom line: I don't have a clue, but I do not consider Ferrari to be set in stone. Maybe he will fancy the idea to bring Williams back to winning ways.

[KWSN - DSM]

Getting near to 61 myself, 65 is no age, I feel as spry and fresh as the day I turned 58, I see no reason that anyone wanting to working to at least 75, plenty of years for Newey to keep going with his incredible creations.

 

And NO!!

 

You can not learn genius, after he weave is magic it is easy to understand, but before it is not, you can not teach the intangibles of a mind able to conceptualize by sight and imagination, he ver specifically do not base his creations on untold number of computer hours, he gives input, he walks away, he gives recommendations and he walks away. He do not design the cars, he lays the concepts, he address what he see as strong and weak spots.

 

One of his very suits is that he do not insist on his way, or that he is always right.

[Henri Greuter]

As for the option Aston Martin:  what would Nerwey's opinion be about matters related with the fact that the owner is also in the game because of providing an F1 car for his son who otherwise would be out of a ride long time ago already?

[pdac]

Getting near to 61 myself, 65 is no age, I feel as spry and fresh as the day I turned 58, I see no reason that anyone wanting to working to at least 75, plenty of years for Newey to keep going with his incredible creations.

 

And NO!!

 

You can not learn genius, after he weave is magic it is easy to understand, but before it is not, you can not teach the intangibles of a mind able to conceptualize by sight and imagination, he ver specifically do not base his creations on untold number of computer hours, he gives input, he walks away, he gives recommendations and he walks away. He do not design the cars, he lays the concepts, he address what he see as strong and weak spots.

 

One of his very suits is that he do not insist on his way, or that he is always right.

 

Youngster! In my career, I've worked alongside some people who were incredible and just looking at them working taught be an awful lot that I feel I would not have leant or understood had I not worked beside them. Being involved in a project with these kind of people gives you more than going on any course or classes or reading any book can ever do.

[George Costanza]

I remember Newey wasn’t exactly hot property back in 2014 - 2020. In fact, some people were actually stupidly questioning if Red Bull should keep him.

But the reality was that he needed a better engine, a top driver and the right environment to compete. Not to mention the awesome crew Red Bull have working on strategy and 2 sec pit stops.

And of course the 2022 ground effect era was right up his street as he had previous experience with that.


Newey is great at what he does of course. But people could be fiercely disappointed if they think he’s just going to join another team and win instantly. A lot of things would need to fall into place for that to happen.

As for Red Bull, I think they are going to struggle from 2026 regardless due to the new engine. Be interesting to see if they can stay at all competitive

Adrian's always been hot property since 1992.

[Counterbalance]

John Bernard worked in Guilford (I think), but definitely had a UK base whilst working for Ferrari, so why can’t Adrian Newey do exactly the same?

I’ve also seen a shift from certain quarters who previously held Newey as god like do just being team of a team who can take up his mantle, strength in depth an so on. The same strength in depth that Mercedes believed they had - and look at them now.

When you take into consideration that HP have just thrown mega bucks into Ferrari and their willingness to throw insane amounts of money to secure someone’s services, Newey’s comments about regretting not having worked with them (and their latest recruit), then I can see a real possibility of him heading there.

[George Costanza]

John Bernard worked in Guilford (I think), but definitely had a UK base whilst working for Ferrari, so why can’t Adrian Newey do exactly the same?

I’ve also seen a shift from certain quarters who previously held Newey as god like do just being team of a team who can take up his mantle, strength in depth an so on. The same strength in depth that Mercedes believed they had - and look at them now.

When you take into consideration that HP have just thrown mega bucks into Ferrari and their willingness to throw insane amounts of money to secure someone’s services, Newey’s comments about regretting not having worked with them (and their latest recruit), then I can see a real possibility of him heading there.

There's a reason why John Barnard couldn't get it to work at Ferrari. Too many miscommunication issues. To be fair though to John though he just needed a better driver like Michael to do the job, his last designed car, the 1997 Ferrari was quick enough to win and nearly won the championship. So I think the issue was the drivers during John's tenure at Ferrari. Berger and Alesi were terrible compared to Michael. I mean it was pretty obvious when they drove the Benetton B195 for a test after the 1995 season, Alesi and Berger simply couldn't handle it at the limit.

Edited by George Costanza, 27 April 2024 - 13:06.

[Counterbalance]

There's a reason why John Barnard couldn't get it to work at Ferrari. Too many miscommunication issues. To be fair though to John though he just needed a better driver like Michael to do the job, his last designed car, the 1997 Ferrari was quick enough to win and nearly won the championship. So I think the issue was the drivers during John's tenure at Ferrari. Berger and Alesi were terrible compared to Michael. I mean it was pretty obvious when they drove the Benetton B195 for a test after the 1995 season, Alesi and Berger simply couldn't handle it at the limit.

Agreed. I don’t think Newey would have trouble with the quality of the drivers though.

Google translate could take care of the rest..

[renzmann]

Hm... Virtually all Ferrari engineers are academics, or have some form of higher education, no? Do we really think there'd be a language problem?

[danmills]

I reckon Aston are one of few teams that could offer Adrian shares in the company as a sweetener.

 

Both Ferrari and Aston could offer retirement sports car fun projects on a platter, it's the whole relocation aspect I can't see happening, and Ferrari politics.

 

If he went there the entire Ferrari way would need changing. Could one man start that? Would Ferrari adapt?

 

Unless they allow him to setup a design office in the UK...

Edited by danmills, 27 April 2024 - 13:28.

[Nemo1965]

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZIJnqqynp/

Incredible that someone made this…

Edited by Nemo1965, 27 April 2024 - 13:40.

[EvilPhil II]

So it appears Adrian will be sailing around the world in 2025 with his wife in a Yacht he had a little influence on the design. 

 

https://www.youtube....didq-qqPjs&t=6s

[PayasYouRace]

So because a number of people don't want/can't view Twitter, we better not post Twitter messages here?! That's new to me.

I regularly see links from Twitter posts here and nothing has ever been said about it.

It would be very useful if the Twitter messages could simply be displayed here just like on other forums so that everyone can see and read them.

The F1 teams tweet a lot and so do the drivers.

No, but if you’re going to post a tweet, explain why it’s relevant, please.

[pdac]

No, but if you’re going to post a tweet, explain why it’s relevant, please.

 

I would say that holds true for any link to external content.

[Dalton007]

Kinda makes sense why Newey wants to leave after the Horner debacle. The complainant was close to him professionally.

[kumo7]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned at all so far is the fact that 65 is by no means old but that his next station will probably be his last. So he'll probably consider this not as a joib like any other but one that will be particularly thought through. Money, I guess, will only be his second consideration. I say it will boild down what he excpects to be most enjoyable and interesting working environment. Of course to bring back a championship to Ferrari is a very interesting idea, to work with Lewis Hamilton just as much. But then Iit has been reported that Newey always preferred to stay in England, so that'll speak against Ferrari.
Bottom line: I don't have a clue, but I do not consider Ferrari to be set in stone. Maybe he will fancy the idea to bring Williams back to winning ways.

Current McLaren offers much better working environment than Ferrari. Ferrari is in Italy , close to super posh Costa Esmeralda and cinqueterra, makes it interesting if Newey wants to sail in a soft sea.

[GrumpyYoungMan]

You're right, you cannot teach 'genius'. However, you can teach people about your experiences and how that makes you decide what could be fruitful and what will not be. You can pass on tips and tricks. You can train people to try to think the way you think. A 'genius' can do a lot to mentor people, even if they are never going to turn out to be a 'genius' themselves.

Knowledge transfer doesn’t happen overnight though. And we are heading for a skills shortage across many skills…

[brucewayne]

Current McLaren offers much better working environment than Ferrari. Ferrari is in Italy , close to super posh Costa Esmeralda and cinqueterra, makes it interesting if Newey wants to sail in a soft sea.

Does it? I don’t think so, Vasseur has changed the culture at Ferrari.

[kumo7]

Does it? I don’t think so, Vasseur has changed the culture at Ferrari.

 

Different nature, so to speak. It depends which one you may like. Ferrari is the team where none above the Ferrari. Bignotto subjugated himself for it to which he became the head of the team. McLaren is just different.

[H0R]

McLaren still looks like a team living in and from it's glorious past. Zak Brown won't value Newey's competence higher than the social media team's one.

[JL14]

If Newey would have to serve something like a year of gardening leave, what are the chances of Newey going the Brawn way and end up at the FIA setting the direction of F1 and forming the new technical rules.

Don't think he would have to serve gardening leave then.

Wouldn't be a bad thing for F1 at all.

Edited by JL14, 27 April 2024 - 16:44.

[kumo7]

McLaren still looks like a team living in and from it's glorious past. Zak Brown won't value Newey's competence higher than the social media team's one.

In a way yes, the pov is that it is becoming something else. This is something that gives a lot of energy to many.

[loki]

The drawing board thing is a joke at this point, no one is pushing so hard for digital engineering as Newey - guy already proposed a wind tunnel ban.
The digital tools right now are making the difference.

In terms of modern aero design workflow the F1 limitations in resource use leave them far behind other industries. With the restrictions between tunnel time and CFD they aren’t able to fully leverage the tech.  They may use the latest commercial software but are restrained in computational power.  It may have made sense pre cap and when the tech was incredibly expensive.  You can have custom designed silicon specifically for CFD (as Ferrari have done in the early 20 teens) but advanced tech is now available to anyone as well as rental situations.  These days the costs have dropped dramatically and the number of trained modeler/drafters has increased significantly.

[loki]

Not leaving us also a big possibility, I think.

RBPT project does give Newey an interesting opportunity. Who else would do such a bold project?

Mercedes, Honda, Ferrari, Alpine, Audi, Cadillac…

[RacingFan10]

Imagine if he joins Sauber (Audi) now that would be a plot twist

[Autodromo]

I would say that holds true for any link to external content.

I had mentioned this a couple of times on this board.  Summarize in a sentence what is on the link so I can decide whether or not to click.  

[pacificquay]

McLaren still looks like a team living in and from it's glorious past. Zak Brown won't value Newey's competence higher than the social media team's one.

I know you’re a hater of ZB, but this take is ridiculous.

 

Zak is a racer and has clearly shown by decisions he has made that McLaren is first and foremost a racing team where engineering is key.

 

In 2024 social media is a key part of the commercial and marketing mix - the fact the team is great at that doesn’t detract from the technical side.

[IrvTheSwerve]

If Newey would have to serve something like a year of gardening leave, what are the chances of Newey going the Brawn way and end up at the FIA setting the direction of F1 and forming the new technical rules.

Don't think he would have to serve gardening leave then.

Wouldn't be a bad thing for F1 at all.

I don’t think an FIA role would satisfy Newey whatsoever. He thrives on competition.

[statsguy]

Chaps, I've read about other people who have read about other people who read Adrian's book excerpt, pages 3-5. Does that make me an expert on his psychological state and therefore I can make predictions about what team / retirement home he'll end up in? If so, I predict McLaren reunion for a few years, before the high life in Barbados.

[TheAviator]

I dont think new ground up team works for Newey...He is 65, I doubt he wants new RB type of contract.

Tbh its already a win if no team has him.

[WouterF1]

Every now and then a RBR insider, @Schummie01 posts information on the Verstappen forum. I have rarely been able to catch him with incorrect information.

This morning:

 

"I hear the following; Newey is not switching at all, but is just thinking about quitting completely.

 

The hassle at RBR seems to play a role in this."

[Mc_Silver]

What about Newey-Marshall-Prodromou trio reunion in McLaren? Zak has great relationship and utmost respect to Newey as well. We all know that Newey would prefer to stay in UK. I feel like McLaren is the wild card in this story.

However, I believe the most logical end of this story is Newey retiring from F1.

Edited by Mc_Silver, 28 April 2024 - 13:22.

[Risil]

A way to imbed x-posts/tweets would be superb in 2024, but I believe the forum software is showing its age.

Twitter was probably more relevant when the software was new than it is now.

Anyway you could always just copy and paste the text in here.

[Nobody]

McLaren still looks like a team living in and from it's glorious past. Zak Brown won't value Newey's competence higher than the social media team's one.

I think they look more like a team living in the glory of its '23 Austria 1.2sec upgrade with F1's most bankable young pairing and social media stars

Edited by Nobody, 28 April 2024 - 13:27.

[IrvTheSwerve]

What about Newey-Marshall-Prodromou trio reunion in McLaren? Zak has great relationship and utmost respect to Newey as well. We all know that Newey would prefer to stay in UK. I feel like McLaren is the wild card in this story.

However, I believe the most logical end of this story is Newey retiring from F1.

With Hamilton returning home in 2027 to win the WDC… 

[ATM]

Now that would be a leveled field in 2 years time-but I'm not sure I would like it to go down like that; rather I would want to see a new gun(s) challenging him on the aero side and have a nice competition about it.

[juicy sushi]

I think he’s going to throw his cellphone away, take that global cruise with his wife, and then chose something he really wants to do in 2026. Which will probably not be F1.

[pacificquay]

Retires from full time, but does a bit of consulting for McLaren, where he already has a strong link with Marshall and Prodromu.

[krea]

In terms of modern aero design workflow the F1 limitations in resource use leave them far behind other industries. With the restrictions between tunnel time and CFD they aren’t able to fully leverage the tech. They may use the latest commercial software but are restrained in computational power. It may have made sense pre cap and when the tech was incredibly expensive. You can have custom designed silicon specifically for CFD (as Ferrari have done in the early 20 teens) but advanced tech is now available to anyone as well as rental situations. These days the costs have dropped dramatically and the number of trained modeler/drafters has increased significantly.

The crucial aspect is having functional libraries which correlates with real data for the unique F1 application - it was repeatedly reported that Red Bull can actually simulate ground effect at the start of the new regs. Not Newey somehow drawing some stuff on his drawing board once in a while.

[renzmann]

The crucial aspect is having functional libraries which correlates with real data for the unique F1 application - it was repeatedly reported that Red Bull can actually simulate ground effect at the start of the new regs. Not Newey somehow drawing some stuff on his drawing board once in a while.

That's right, and I don't think Newey saved RBR because he still had "some knowledge from the last ground effect era". Give me a break   I do think Newey is an impressive engineer (the best, probably) but talk about him contains a lot of folklore cultivated by the British press, too, I reckon. A couple of years ago he couldn't do anything (anymore), and now he's a god again. A little more perspective seems healthy here.

[Sterzo]

... but talk about him contains a lot of folklore cultivated by the British press, too, I reckon.

Any examples?

[PayasYouRace]

Adrian is one of the few, if not the only, designers in F1 at the moment with actual experience of designing ground effect cars. That’s valuable experience.

 

But I guess it’s easier too just blame the British press instead of giving credit where it’s due.

[PayasYouRace]

The crucial aspect is having functional libraries which correlates with real data for the unique F1 application - it was repeatedly reported that Red Bull can actually simulate ground effect at the start of the new regs. Not Newey somehow drawing some stuff on his drawing board once in a while.

Three guesses who probably was the driving factor in setting this up. I’d say the technical director with the most real world experience of ground effect racing cars.