227 replies to this topic

[absinthedude]

Perez took his usual racing line, as he was entitled to do and as KMag should have expected. KMag also seemed to be unaware, or did not care, that his own team-mate was right behind him. 

 

I find it incomprehensible that anyone sees this as Perez' fault.  

[rodlamas]

I would ban them both for one race.

K-Mag for points. Perez for qualifying P18 on a Red Bull.

And both of them for robbing us of a minimal chance of getting a change in the race.

[kumo7]

I would ban them both for one race.

K-Mag for points. Perez for qualifying P18 on a Red Bull.

And both of them for robbing us of a minimal chance of getting a change in the race.

Did Perez ignore the sporting codes?

[ANF]

I've had a proper look at Pérez's onboard for the first time. What really strikes me is the amount of wheelspin he got after the first upshift after Sainte-Dévote. For a fraction of a second he struggled to keep the car pointing in a straight line; he lost momentum to the cars in front; he realised he would come under pressure from behind and that's why he immediately had a second glance in his right mirror, and soon a third. When Pérez checked his mirror for the third time there was already an overlap between his rear wheel and Magnussen's front wing. I suppose that a driver who was making his 17th start in Monaco should have realised that, at that point, he should give Magnussen a little more room to avoid an accident, but he didn't.

Magnussen, who was making his 11th start in Monaco and was making a high-risk move by staying unusually close to the barrier, should have realised that Pérez wasn't going to move and that he was about to be squeezed against the barrier before that right-hand kink, and he should have backed off between the zebra crossing and the white arrow. But he didn't: his rev lights were lit up like a Christmas tree until the cars touched wheels and crashed.

So I've changed my opinion and gone from 100% Magnussen to 50/50 or 70/30.

 

Edit: After watching the video in the next post I'm going to go for 80/20.

Edited by ANF, 28 May 2024 - 00:47.

[ANF]

The accident was nicely captured by this static camera on a balcony:

[Muzzyf1]

Racing incident. There was an opening and Perez closed it.

The wall closed in on magnussen he should have backed out

[krea]

The accident was nicely captured by this static camera on a balcony:

 

You can see that Magnussen lost control when hitting the wall despite still having space. 

[AncientLurker]

Thanks for the video. From that angle you can see there is still room and Magnussen just ran out of talent.

[loki]

KMag basically just drove into Perez. Nothing else to see here. This guy, never seems to know where the brakes are.

He didn’t need his brakes.  He used Checo’s…

 

That was a mega low percentage move particularly on the first lap.

[Lesky]

The accident was nicely captured by this static camera on a balcony:

Has this been submitted to the FIA? There is no way to absolve K-Mag of blame when watching that!

[aportinga]

It's time for KMag, Ricciardo and Sargent to go - none of them belong on an F1 grid.

[Tombstone]

Racing incident.  There was an opening and Perez closed it.

 

Surprised no-one's posted this, just for s**** and giggles...

 

[ANF]

Surprised no-one's posted this, just for s**** and giggles...
 

Pérez actually said he couldn't see Magnussen in his mirrors* but I don't believe he's telling the truth. He was checking his mirror three times. If he couldn't see a car the second time there would be no reason to check it a third time. Also, look at this short helmet cam video of him checking his right mirror at Jeddah: https://youtu.be/hObS4bAy8nI?t=44 He must have seen the Haas immediately to the right of his rear wheel.

* "At the start I lost a position to one of the Haas cars and I was coming out of turn one, I couldn't see Kevin in my mirrors, you can see that from my on board and then the crash happened." https://www.pitpass....uote/sunday.php

[PayasYouRace]

Pérez actually said he couldn't see Magnussen in his mirrors* but I don't believe he's telling the truth. He was checking his mirror three times. If he couldn't see a car the second time there would be no reason to check it a third time. Also, look at this short helmet cam video of him checking his right mirror at Jeddah: https://youtu.be/hObS4bAy8nI?t=44 He must have seen the Haas immediately to the right of his rear wheel.

* "At the start I lost a position to one of the Haas cars and I was coming out of turn one, I couldn't see Kevin in my mirrors, you can see that from my on board and then the crash happened." https://www.pitpass....uote/sunday.php

If he couldn’t see the car the second time that has no bearing on whether he’d check a third time. He says he didn’t see him, and drove the line you’d expect if he didn’t see a car there.

[Collective]

100% Magnussen. You absolutely cannot stick your nose in there at that point in Monaco. No way Perez can anticipate anyone would be that stupid. Brundle even covered it at the end of the formation lap, about making sure you know the person you are passing knows you are coming or it will end in a crash. Stupid move from a stupid driver.

 

This is my take as well. From Checo's standpoint, he for sure saw Hulk on his left and knew he couldn't cross to the left. The track at that point bends slightly right, so you are counting on the car behind not to tick its nose in a quickly disappearing space. Kevin was too far back, knew where Hulkenberg was, and was simply a bit of a fool to try to make it 3 wide at that place.

Edited by Collective, 28 May 2024 - 15:22.

[AncientLurker]

Pérez actually said he couldn't see Magnussen in his mirrors* but I don't believe he's telling the truth.

I am going to say this one last time for people who are failing to comprehend the actual events that unfolded.

 

It does not matter if Perez checked his mirror once, three times, 100 times, or never. It does not matter if he saw a car. Because, at the point Magnussen hit the wall (i.e Magnussen drove into the barrier unassisted) there was the required car width gap between Perez and the barrier. Everything else about intentions and possible future outcomes is conjecture.

[Flyhigh]

Haas is pathetic at driver picking besides Hulk. all they seem to pick are mediocre drivers who are very crash, bone headed. With so much talent prospect waiting to enter F1 is unbelievable why someone like Mag is still on the grid... 

[Tombstone]

Pérez actually said he couldn't see Magnussen in his mirrors* but I don't believe he's telling the truth. He was checking his mirror three times. If he couldn't see a car the second time there would be no reason to check it a third time. Also, look at this short helmet cam video of him checking his right mirror at Jeddah: https://youtu.be/hObS4bAy8nI?t=44 He must have seen the Haas immediately to the right of his rear wheel.

* "At the start I lost a position to one of the Haas cars and I was coming out of turn one, I couldn't see Kevin in my mirrors, you can see that from my on board and then the crash happened." https://www.pitpass....uote/sunday.php

 

Like I said "for s**** and giggles", not serious.

[absinthedude]

Haas is pathetic at driver picking besides Hulk. all they seem to pick are mediocre drivers who are very crash, bone headed. With so much talent prospect waiting to enter F1 is unbelievable why someone like Mag is still on the grid... 

 

To be fair to Haas, KMag has scored a lot of points for them in the past. He's not exactly slow. But neither was he ever going to set the world on fire. He's the quality of driver that a mid-field team usually has employed throughout the last 50 years or so of F1. 

 

The problem with KMag has been that right from the start he was overly aggressive. But that seems to have got worse, which leads to crashes and near misses. 

[RedRabbit]

Haas is pathetic at driver picking besides Hulk. all they seem to pick are mediocre drivers who are very crash, bone headed. With so much talent prospect waiting to enter F1 is unbelievable why someone like Mag is still on the grid...

Coz he immediately wiped the floor with a "prospect" on his comeback. He's not entirely rubbish. But it's easy to get the feeling his time is nearly up and he knows it.

[MattPete]

That ‘prospect’ got his ass handed to him in Indycar.

[Clatter]

Haas is pathetic at driver picking besides Hulk. all they seem to pick are mediocre drivers who are very crash, bone headed. With so much talent prospect waiting to enter F1 is unbelievable why someone like Mag is still on the grid...

Don't forget that he only got back on the grid when Mazepin got the push. That was an unexpected event, and they needed someone at short notice. On his comeback he was doing well, although the magnussen of old seems to be reappearing.

[ensign14]

I am going to say this one last time for people who are failing to comprehend the actual events that unfolded.

 

It does not matter if Perez checked his mirror once, three times, 100 times, or never. It does not matter if he saw a car. Because, at the point Magnussen hit the wall (i.e Magnussen drove into the barrier unassisted) there was the required car width gap between Perez and the barrier. Everything else about intentions and possible future outcomes is conjecture.

Can I make it even more simple?

 

People are saying Perez should have spotted in his very very very tony and very very very bouncy mirror, in the very very very short time he was looking at it, that there was a car with a very very very slight overlap behind him.

 

But that Magnussen should not have spotted the very very very big Red Bull in front of him right in the direction that Magnussen was looking for the entire time.

[KWSN - DSM]

Can I make it even more simple?

 

People are saying Perez should have spotted in his very very very tony and very very very bouncy mirror, in the very very very short time he was looking at it, that there was a car with a very very very slight overlap behind him.

 

But that Magnussen should not have spotted the very very very big Red Bull in front of him right in the direction that Magnussen was looking for the entire time.

 

That is actually not what all people who are not calling for a penalty is saying.

[rocque]

Magnussen: If I wasn't sure that he's seen me, I probably would have just backed off. But it was very clear to me that he had seen me. So, I thought okay, he's going to leave a car width. I trusted that he was going to do that – in hindsight, I shouldn't have trusted him.

https://www.motorspo...crash/10620216/

 

Komatsu: Then, of course, we had a team issue such that meant we had to start from the back. Then from that moment, you know, we had to go for alternative strategy, you know, splitting the drivers. So you’ve got to play the long game. So the decision-making process at that instant to go for that gap, which wasn't really there, it's not necessarily right and then of course you know he expected Pérez to leave more room for him, but that's not up to him. In the end, you know, there was a point where everything was under his control, where he could have made a decision to back off, which he didn't. So we spoke about all this completely openly. 

https://www.formula1...vXFUNGGbMdusi4R

 

Case closed.

Edited by rocque, 08 June 2024 - 08:37.

[kumo7]

Yup, KMag did not control what he could.

[DS27]

 

Case closed.

 

 

JV closed the case when he said on air it was 1000% KMags fault 

[Maustinsj]

https://www.motorspo...crash/10620216/

https://www.formula1...vXFUNGGbMdusi4R

Case closed.

This is exactly what I thought had happened (and posted in the K-Mag ban thread)!