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It’s the annual ‘does Monaco need to change?’ Thread


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221 replies to this topic

Poll: Monaco (146 member(s) have cast votes)

Does Monaco need to change?

  1. Yes (65 votes [44.52%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 44.52%

  2. No (81 votes [55.48%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 55.48%

What could they do?

  1. Change the layout (show your workings) (28 votes [14.14%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 14.14%

  2. Change the tyres (25 votes [12.63%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 12.63%

  3. Mandatory pit stops and/or more of them (39 votes [19.70%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 19.70%

  4. Different tyres (23 votes [11.62%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 11.62%

  5. Other obvious ideas that will be explained (26 votes [13.13%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 13.13%

  6. NOTHING, LEAVE IT ALONE (57 votes [28.79%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 28.79%

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#201 F1Lurker

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Posted 02 June 2024 - 22:53

The idea of some sort of a joker, which is what in my opinion you are referring to, is intriguing at Monaco. But for this the roundabout at Portier would and could suffice already.

Sure. I chose that specific corner because I remember cars going straight on there, overtaking and having to give up the position. But for me, the specific location for implementation is not as important as the concept itself. This should open Monaco to real racing. A potential side effect could be more safety car periods, but at least the race would be one of the most exciting on the calendar, and the skill of the drivers would be exhibited to the limit.
 
Even though some would complain that this type of passing is artificial, I don't think it would be generally perceived that way because factors like a challenging DRS activation (maybe five-tenths), the corresponding increase in the speed of the cars on those narrow streets, and the inevitable incidents from drivers being on the limit would introduce huge excitement and entertainment. This could lead to more viewers watching until the end.  For instance, a safety car period would make pit stop decisions more critical. There would definitely be more pit stops regardless.


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#202 GenJackRipper

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Posted 04 June 2024 - 10:01

Easy fixes:
- Extend the circuit so they go around the Portier roundabout at Portier; thus creating a longer straight before the tunnel and more overtaking opportunities.

Semi-easy fixes:
- Remake Anthony Noughes so they can overtake between Rascasse & Start-Finish Straight; un-necessary tight there now.

Harder fixes:
- Widen the track from Nouvelle chichane all the way to Rascasse.
- Widen the track at Massenet half-way up the hill until Casino Square.



#203 PayasYouRace

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Posted 04 June 2024 - 10:20

Easy fixes:
- Extend the circuit so they go around the Portier roundabout at Portier; thus creating a longer straight before the tunnel and more overtaking opportunities.

Semi-easy fixes:
- Remake Anthony Noughes so they can overtake between Rascasse & Start-Finish Straight; un-necessary tight there now.

Harder fixes:
- Widen the track from Nouvelle chichane all the way to Rascasse.
- Widen the track at Massenet half-way up the hill until Casino Square.


The Portier change isn’t a fix at all. I see. A lot of people suggest it but the increase of length of straight would be negligible.

I do like the idea of restoring Anthony Noughes somewhat to the pre-1976 layout. Thats actually quite possible and might prevent cards being as strung out as they do on the pit straight.

It would be possible to make some parts of the track a bit wider along the harbour front, but not the whole way. It’s not just street furniture that would need changing. Along these lines but not mentioned, the bit between the Swimming Pool and the Rascasse is a tarmac expanse, so there’s room to adjust the layout there.

You’d not get anywhere trying to widen the road at Massenet.

#204 GenJackRipper

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Posted 04 June 2024 - 10:36

The Portier change isn’t a fix at all. I see. A lot of people suggest it but the increase of length of straight would be negligible.

I do like the idea of restoring Anthony Noughes somewhat to the pre-1976 layout. Thats actually quite possible and might prevent cards being as strung out as they do on the pit straight.

It would be possible to make some parts of the track a bit wider along the harbour front, but not the whole way. It’s not just street furniture that would need changing. Along these lines but not mentioned, the bit between the Swimming Pool and the Rascasse is a tarmac expanse, so there’s room to adjust the layout there.

You’d not get anywhere trying to widen the road at Massenet.

Going around Portier would also give one overtaking opportunities there. You could start the overtake in the roundabout and finish it while entering the tunnel.

Yes, Anthony Noughes is quite easy, just remove the curbs. The exit of the tunnel unfortunately is a bit in the way, but a smooth right turn after Rascasse could be made.

The area along Quai des Etats-Unis could be widened by widening the quay, but it would be a bit of a hassle. As would the rest bwtween Tabac & Rascasse. But its possible.

The section of Avenue d'Ostende (the hill) between Avenue de la Costa and the Casino/Hotel De Paris could be widened, but it would be costly.



#205 PayasYouRace

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Posted 04 June 2024 - 10:39

Going around Portier would also give one overtaking opportunities there. You could start the overtake in the roundabout and finish it while entering the tunnel.

Ok is this something different to what people sometimes suggest? Because there’s no extra overtaking opportunities going the long way round the Portier roundabout.

#206 Beri

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Posted 04 June 2024 - 12:03

Ok is this something different to what people sometimes suggest? Because there’s no extra overtaking opportunities going the long way round the Portier roundabout.


I'm tempted to assume that if the cars take the Portier roundabout three quarters, to line up with the Tunnel, cars would be closer and have a slower starting speed when accelerating from the roundabout rather than the current flow through Portier as it is where cars can't really follow eachother close by.
All assets that COULD aid in cars following more closely and the possibility for an overtake into the chicane.

#207 ATM

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Posted 04 June 2024 - 12:21

[quote name="GenJackRipper" post="10616136" timestamp="1717495311"]



Semi-easy fixes:
- Remake Anthony Noughes so they can overtake between Rascasse & Start-Finish Straight; un-necessary tight there now.

So that would bring back the original pointy curve Gazometre configuration I guess. Is that easy to do or they reconfigured the streets?

#208 PayasYouRace

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Posted 04 June 2024 - 12:40

I'm tempted to assume that if the cars take the Portier roundabout three quarters, to line up with the Tunnel, cars would be closer and have a slower starting speed when accelerating from the roundabout rather than the current flow through Portier as it is where cars can't really follow eachother close by.
All assets that COULD aid in cars following more closely and the possibility for an overtake into the chicane.


Tighter corners and hairpins always string cars out more. The concertina effect is too much. But in this case it would just be replacing one 1st gear corner with another.

#209 PayasYouRace

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Posted 04 June 2024 - 12:41




Semi-easy fixes:
- Remake Anthony Noughes so they can overtake between Rascasse & Start-Finish Straight; un-necessary tight there now.

So that would bring back the original pointy curve Gazometre configuration I guess. Is that easy to do or they reconfigured the streets?
No, check out footage from 1973-1975. It would be out of the Rascasse and a fast right into the pit straight.

The Gasworks hairpin was from what is now the pit lane to the pit straight. Effectively like coming backwards out of the pits and turning right.

#210 Grippy

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Posted 04 June 2024 - 13:41

Monaco Grand Prix circuit layout: how it's changed since 1929

with maps.

 

https://www.motorspo...ged-since-1929/



#211 Grippy

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Posted 04 June 2024 - 13:49

From my above link;

 

Monaco circuit layout, 1929-1954

Monaco-1929-circuit-copy-367x400.jpg

 

 

 

Monaco circuit layout, 1955-1972

No map, minimal changes.

 

1972 (added following comments by @Collumbin and @PayasYouRace)

 

Circuit_de_Monaco_1972.png

(from https://en.wikipedia...onaco_1972.png)

 

 

Monaco circuit layout, 1973-1985

Monaco-1973-circuit-copy-367x400.jpg

 

 

Monaco circuit layout, 1986-1996

Monaco-1986-layout-copy-367x400.jpg

 

 

Monaco circuit layout, 1997-present

Monaco-2015-layout-copy-367x400.jpg

 

 

 

edit to add 1972.


Edited by Grippy, 04 June 2024 - 14:59.


#212 Collombin

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Posted 04 June 2024 - 13:56

1972 had the chicane much nearer Tabac I believe, but they moved it back again sharpish afterwards.

#213 PayasYouRace

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Posted 04 June 2024 - 14:10

Monaco Grand Prix circuit layout: how it's changed since 1929
with maps.

https://www.motorspo...ged-since-1929/


Missing a few variations. In the late 1930s the chicane was very close to Tabac, as it was for the unique 1972 layout which at the pitlane between the tunnel and the chicane.

#214 ClubmanGT

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Posted 05 June 2024 - 19:26

Ok is this something different to what people sometimes suggest? Because there’s no extra overtaking opportunities going the long way round the Portier roundabout.

 

I suspect a sweeping right is easier to take an alternate line behind someone than the relatively blunt right hander we have now - think Canada's 2nd corner. 

 

The status quo is basically a guarantee that you're going to a single-file run with everyone having to wait to get on the power at the same time.

You'd still be single file in Portier if you went the long-way but an over/under would let you get on the power earlier times if you can produce a slightly different exit to the car you're following. 



#215 Beri

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Posted 05 June 2024 - 19:33

So in essence the circuit before it had Rascasse, would have been perfect for the current age of Formula One cars.

#216 pdac

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Posted 05 June 2024 - 21:12

So in essence the circuit before it had Rascasse, would have been perfect for the current age of Formula One cars.

 

But isn't Rascasse important for the pit layout?



#217 Beri

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Posted 05 June 2024 - 21:32

Well I'd call the fact that the restaurant La Rascasse has been placed there, the main reason why the corner is now the way it is. If it wasn't, so in essence the hairpin it was, I assume the pit entry would be made fit by having the entry straight after the hairpin.

#218 PayasYouRace

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Posted 05 June 2024 - 23:09

Well I'd call the fact that the restaurant La Rascasse has been placed there, the main reason why the corner is now the way it is. If it wasn't, so in essence the hairpin it was, I assume the pit entry would be made fit by having the entry straight after the hairpin.

It’s not the pit entry. It’s the entire pit lane. The pit lane currently sits on what was the track up until 1972. Up to 1971, the pit lane was literally just an unprotected lane on the side of the road. The restaurant had little to do with the change of layout, as the Gasworks Hairpin would still have fit with it there. It was the lack of a dedicated pit road that meant diverting the track via the swimming pool and round La Rascasse, as having the pits before Tabac didn’t seem to work.

 

Edit, you can see the restaurant building even in the 1960s. Might be a different restaurant but it’s the same place. It’s the one on the far left with the blue awning.

 

snap00197.jpg



#219 TauriJ

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Posted 06 June 2024 - 06:57

What a lovely picture to show how the track is evolved. They even had a ramp up to the 1970s in place of old Tabac corner :stoned:



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#220 Zmeej

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Posted 07 June 2024 - 17:19

Make the cars smaller.

 

Leave the track alone!  :mad: 

 

(Very glad a large majority agrees.  :)  )


Edited by Zmeej, 07 June 2024 - 17:20.


#221 GenJackRipper

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Posted 11 June 2024 - 12:38

[quote name="GenJackRipper" post="10616136" timestamp="1717495311"]



Semi-easy fixes:
- Remake Anthony Noughes so they can overtake between Rascasse & Start-Finish Straight; un-necessary tight there now.

So that would bring back the original pointy curve Gazometre configuration I guess. Is that easy to do or they reconfigured the streets?

Yes, its a case of moving some traffic islands. Unfortunately there is a tunnel with an exit (its exit is where they sort of slam in right before the straight/finish line), but moving the traffic island would make it a more smoth right turn.
 



#222 GenJackRipper

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Posted 11 June 2024 - 12:41

I'm tempted to assume that if the cars take the Portier roundabout three quarters, to line up with the Tunnel, cars would be closer and have a slower starting speed when accelerating from the roundabout rather than the current flow through Portier as it is where cars can't really follow eachother close by.
All assets that COULD aid in cars following more closely and the possibility for an overtake into the chicane.

Yes. The current "straight" from the Portier corner to the chicane just about gives you time for an overtake.
Going around the Portier roundabout should give you a little more straight to make that overtake.

And also an opportunity for close-call overtakes. Such as the ones that are ocassionally made at the Hairpin & Rascasse. That should be possible in the roundabout aswell, no?