64 replies to this topic

[gillesfan76]

he had impressive stints in various races. Making those long stints work on Force India required good pace and tyre conservation. 

This guy almost won in a Sauber, pushing Fernando Alonso and had 2 other podiums in his Sauber times. He's won with a very strong pace in the RP in 2020. 

 

Looking at him struggling now is awful - I can't understand what has changed from early season (Japan where he was super close to Max) to now. Clearly balance is the only explanation.

 

Alex describes it perfectly here - in terms of both extreme driving style AND car progression where you start reasonably close but lose more and more confidence as the season goes on because the car just moves further and further more extreme. 

 

Unfortunately the video is misleading as Alex doesn’t at explain Max’s style. He just explains that Max likes a strong and sensitive front end, where the tiniest inputs translates into a reaction that Albon personally finds eye watering. What Albon doesn’t go into is how Max actually deals with this eye watering sensitivity. Is it just a reflex or control thing where he can either react to it very quickly and make micro corrections and/or he is incredibly good at predicting its reactions so he’s already countered for them to stop those reactions from happening. I suspect it’s a bit of both, but I also suspect that Max’s actual style - what Albon doesn’t touch on at all - mitigates that front end sensitivity where his method of braking, turning in and throttle inputs all work in such a way that the front end sensitivity isn’t really a factor that he has to deal with.

 

Reminds me of the first time I drove an older 911 on the track, coming from well sorted BMWs before that. I was shocked at the push understeer especially in low and medium speed corners. When I got out of the car, I quizzed the owner how he deals with the ploughing understeer. His reply was “Understeer? What understeer?”. So I went for a lap with him immediately after and sure enough, he not only set a quicker lap time with me in the passenger seat but there was no understeer the way he drove it.

 

So I suspect that grippy front end that wants to dart everywhere and unsettle the rear for how Albon brakes, enters a corner and progresses through it, is perfectly balanced for when Max does it.

[William Hunt]

I wonder how much of Perez’s tyre whispering is about actual tyre management which is the art of balancing pace with management to maximise race pace, or whether it’s simply driving slow so his tyres go longer. I don’t ever recall consistent standout race pace from Checo.

 

Off course it's not because of driving slower. It has more to do with the lines you drive in corners, trying to minimalise the tires getting scrubbed because of too much tyre sliding. The smooth operators tend to brake later and turn in to the corner with one big swift steering wheel correction and they minimise the scrubbing by making as little steering corrections as possible. It's a style that is not suitable with a pointy oversteery car, it's all about driving as clean as possible with minimal corrections.
Tyre whispering is an art and if you try to save them by driving slower it's not an art any more, you'll be driving at the low end of the field then instead of winning races and scoring podia because you put less wear on the tyres.
So no, it is off course not done by driving slower. 

Many world champions, like Fangio, Clark, Stewart, Lauda, Prost or Button were smooth style drivers. And Perez scored podiums for Sauber and a win for Force India with a smooth style.They weren't slow at all.

 

I warmly recommend the wonderful 1972 documentary made by Roman Polański, called "Weekend of a Champion". It was filmed during the 1972 Monaco F1 GP weekend, and most of it consists of Polanski interviewing Jackie Stewart in his hotel room.
 

You will hear Stewart talking about his driving style and his says about smooth driving: "when it looks clean and slow, it is usually faster".

https://www.imdb.com...ref_=nm_knf_t_3

Edited by William Hunt, 12 July 2024 - 15:07.

[Sterzo]

Many world champions, like Fangio, Clark, Stewart, Lauda, Prost or Button were smooth style drivers.

Agreed - it would probably be easier to list those who didn't have a smooth style. And amongst the ones I can think of, Brabham and Rindt actually varied their styles and probably were smooth in their winning years. Keke Rosberg might stand alone.

[gillesfan76]

Off course it's not because of driving slower. It has more to do with the lines you drive in corners, trying to minimalise the tires getting scrubbed because of too much tyre sliding. The smooth operators tend to brake later and turn in to the corner with one big swift steering wheel correction and they minimise the scrubbing by making as little steering corrections as possible. It's a style that is not suitable with a pointy oversteery car, it's all about driving as clean as possible with minimal corrections.
Tyre whispering is an art and if you try to save them by driving slower it's not an art any more, you'll be driving at the low end of the field then instead of winning races and scoring podia because you put less wear on the tyres.
So no, it is off course not done by driving slower. 

Many world champions, like Fangio, Clark, Stewart, Lauda, Prost or Button were smooth style drivers. And Perez scored podiums for Sauber and a win for Force India with a smooth style.They weren't slow at all.

 

I warmly recommend the wonderful 1972 documentary made by Roman Polański, called "Weekend of a Champion". It was filmed during the 1972 Monaco F1 GP weekend, and most of it consists of Polanski interviewing Jackie Stewart in his hotel room.
 

You will hear Stewart talking about his driving style and his says about smooth driving: "when it looks clean and slow, it is usually faster".

https://www.imdb.com...ref_=nm_knf_t_3

 

Maybe in lower speed corners, but in faster corners no one is continuously correcting loss of grip either front or rear. Maybe in Stewart’s days when cars didn’t have the downforce they have today. Also isn’t tyre degradation due to tyre wear from scrubbing/sliding only one factor and not necessarily the main factor nowadays, instead thermal degradation playing a bigger factor? Finally, isn’t there also a big difference in what causes front and rear tyre wear, with rear tyre wear compounded by combining traction and lateral G?

[pacificquay]

The term “flich throttle” features nowhere on the internet outside of this forum…

[Beri]

Austin Powers 2, and it was funny

Johnny English 2 was better too.

[pUs]

Do you think Max Verstappen has a unique throttle or talent regarding throttle applying. I used to remember Senna tapping on the throttle within corners, then Jacques Villeneuve was rumoured to call his technique Flich Throttle, but it was never proven. Schumacher balanced the car with break and throttle.

Max is very consistent in getting points even when it is not the best weekend for his car. Has he talked about his technique ever?

 

On the edge of adhesion, the last tenth of a second this thread needed was found, on the edge foruming, EXCELLENT                       

[Claudius]

On the edge of adhesion, the last tenth of a second this thread needed was found, on the edge foruming, EXCELLENT                       

 

Yeah, Sean hasn´t posted in decades.   

[flymo]

I seem to recall that the original "flitch throttle technique" post was a typo by some JV fanboy on Atlas trying to hype up a parallel between Jacques and Senna.  Probably a mis-spelling of "flick".  Or maybe "twitch".  Amazing that it has persisted so long. 

[PayasYouRace]

Much like green glowing brake discs and protractors, it’s part of forum lore now.

[JBJ]

I seem to recall that the original "flitch throttle technique" post was a typo by some JV fanboy on Atlas trying to hype up a parallel between Jacques and Senna.  Probably a mis-spelling of "flick".  Or maybe "twitch".  Amazing that it has persisted so long. 

Sean strikes again after 13 years

https://forums.autos...ttle-evolution/

 

Posted 11 February 2011 - 02:07

Edited by SeanValen, 11 February 2011 - 02:24.

[Autodromo]

The term “flich throttle” features nowhere on the internet outside of this forum…

Didn't you watch "Spinal Tap"?  It means Max's throttle goes to 11.

[SeanValen]

Your last paragraph is explains why Ayrton was a genius when it came to pure speed. Alain Prost couldn't quite understand it either. I don't think anybody can do what Ayrton actually did with those cars. It was a very unique aspect and it certainly worked for him.

👍 👍 👍 👍 👍
Good job George Legend
Yeah and I don't think we'll ever know the details. If Senna was alive, it's one thing I wished we could hear in his own words. Death sucks. Formula one losing its beautiful engine sounds is another annoyance. I guess we were lucky they came once. Such as life.... quote John Wick

Overall conclusions evaluations and recommendations: #timeremainsundefeated

Edited by SeanValen, 05 October 2024 - 23:07.

[MaxScelerate]

I seem to recall that the original "flitch throttle technique" post was a typo by some JV fanboy on Atlas trying to hype up a parallel between Jacques and Senna.  Probably a mis-spelling of "flick".  Or maybe "twitch".  Amazing that it has persisted so long. 

Well, as a (then) Jacques fan, I always thought Sean was trolling (or smoking some crazy ****) and I still seriously doubt he was ever a Villeneuve fan.

[Ramses1348]

Only f1 legends and Jacques Villeneuve have their own fitch throttle technique thread