186 replies to this topic

[ClubmanGT]

Myrvold's reply is why this thread exists.

 

Humans live for almost 80 years, on average. A lot can happen in 80 years.

[Disgrace]

I was with him, because I loved him. He was with me because... eh?

 

Thanks for sharing your story, Myrvold. I did laugh a bit too hard at this bit, though. 

[Zmeej]

@Myrvold hats off to your post 

 

+1

[Myrvold]

@Myrvold hats off to your post 

 
Thanks. Didn't expect the "blow up" of reactions, but it just hits close to home, not in a sad way, just relatable.
 

Myrvold's reply is why this thread exists.
 
Humans live for almost 80 years, on average. A lot can happen in 80 years.

 
Things change, it's just how life is. For better and worse!
 

Thanks for sharing your story, Myrvold. I did laugh a bit too hard at this bit, though. 

 
Haha. No worries. I mean, with what he knows today, I guess it wasn't "true love". But for all he knew for the majority of the time we were together, it was what he knew as love. So... Genuinely, I don't know what to call it. What we both know was that the years were fun, happy, social etc. No regrets for any of us ^^,
 

[GhostR]

There is this desire today to make sexuality fluid to better align with the current narrative. I find that to be untrue and unnecessary.

Everything is not black and white but there are a set of boundaries for the vast majority. Except for a few. This is not a judgement call, just stating the obvious.

What you are calling labels are components of biology. I don't think it's that complicated unless one wants it to be.

 

Anyway, this is becoming OT. 

 

Yes, definitely straying OT a little. But still tangentially related. Anyway, just a quick comment: even "biology" isn't that simple. While I'm far from an expert, I've done enough reading (and listening to others who do know) to know that even biology isn't simple and straightforward. Genetics is highly complicated, as is the whole process of how genes dictate how we develop over time - in particular for those people who have genes that "switched on" or "switched off" at varying points during early development.

 

For the majority, it is simple. For those where it isn't simple, though, I personally don't agree with assigning labels. They are people, just like you and me, and they have the right to have their personal preferences around who they love / are attracted to / etc respected and accepted without needing to try to fit them into a neat little box. That's especially true given that preferences are fluid and can change over time. The "box" we put someone in today, may not be the "box" that fits them in 20 years time.

Edited by GhostR, 18 July 2024 - 10:14.

[messy]

Straying OT but reading Myrvold’s post kinda caught me off guard because I think on a forum like this you discuss certain topics and you learn which posters think along similar lines to you, which are a pain to debate with etc, but it all seems quite anonymized by the fact you’re all posting opinions on one specific topic. Then suddenly someone unexpectedly opens up about other things and you’re reminded that these aren’t just usernames posting opinions on Kevin Magnussen losing his Haas seat, these are real living, breathing people with a back story, and it’s quite cool actually. Maybe this is what people also easily forget on social media generally, and I include myself in that although I do try to remember. Maybe this is also relevant to Ralf Schumacher in a roundabout way. We know him as an early 2000s F1 driver who was handy, a bit arrogant and younger brother of a legend. That’s probably how 95% of his social media followers know him too. Opening up about your own life, whether on the Autosport forums or on Instagram to thousands of followers, is brave and very much to be applauded I think because there are a lot of idiots out there who think they can say and judge whatever they like.

[Taxi]

Great Post @myrvold . Thanks for sharing a very common sense, real human experience. Wishing you all the best for the future. 

[RacingFan10]

"someone like him"? 

 

What does this mean? Anyone can be any sexuality. 

 

Well, you usually aren't married with a woman for a long time and have children if you are gay. You expect those things more from men who have been single always.

[Outsider]

Well, you usually aren't married with a woman for a long time and have children if you are gay. You expect those things more from men who have been single always.

my friend's father is gay. guy was married to a woman for about 20 years and they had 3 children together.. the fact that you ain't seen a gay guy being married and having children, does not mean it does not happen

[pacificquay]

Well, you usually aren't married with a woman for a long time and have children if you are gay. You expect those things more from men who have been single always.

 

Touching levels of naivety here

[Ramon69]

This season has been blown out of proportion by shocking news! This is probably the second huge shocker after Lewis joining Ferrari! It has been interesting both on and off track and we're only half way through it! 

[Spillage]

Lovely post Myrvold, thanks for sharing. I guess the heart wants what it wants. You can't always predict it and you certainly can't control it.

One thing that has to be said for Ralf is that, however messy his divorce was, he maintains a close and loving relationship with his son. That has to be to his considerable credit.

[Autodromo]

I am a man and dated a woman for a year or so in our late 20's.  It wasn't super serious so when she moved across the country we parted friends.  Ten years later I was moving to where she lived and by then she was in a serious relationship with a woman (who, funnily enough, was a lot like me and we got along great!).  I never asked but she brought it up; "no, I didn't think I was gay at the time but when I finally fell completely in love with someone, it happened to be a woman".  You never know how life goes.  I am happy to have them both still as good friends.

[Rediscoveryx]

…and sometimes, just sometimes. People are bisexual.

[PayasYouRace]

…and sometimes, just sometimes. People are bisexual.

[PlatenGlass]

https://www.bbc.co.u...es/cl7ykp11k74o

 

According to the BBC article, Ralf's sexuality was known within F1 while he was racing (so I'm not sure where that leaves the situation with his wife at the time). This would suggest it's less the attitude within the paddock he was concerned about, and more about how the general public would react. I don't really see F1 as "hyper-masculine" as it was described in this thread earlier. Also Matt Bishop's experience (mentioned previously) suggests those within F1 generally were quite reasonable about it, and it was just the one unnamed driver that seemed to have a problem.

[noikeee]

I am a man and dated a woman for a year or so in our late 20's. It wasn't super serious so when she moved across the country we parted friends. Ten years later I was moving to where she lived and by then she was in a serious relationship with a woman (who, funnily enough, was a lot like me and we got along great!). I never asked but she brought it up; "no, I didn't think I was gay at the time but when I finally fell completely in love with someone, it happened to be a woman". You never know how life goes. I am happy to have them both still as good friends.

I've had similar experiences happen.. twice.

First was a chick I had a huge crush on and chased for a long time, she liked the attention but eventually ended up telling me she was bi and had a gf.

Second one I dated her for a few months, gave up because things were just a bit frosty and it wasn't going anywhere, couple years later dated a friend of her and when I had to open up and say "look I don't know if this will be awkward but I've dated a friend of yours...", "wait what do you mean, she's lesbian?"

I don't know how to link this back to Ralf but yeah let's open up a club of guys who are really quite dense at picking up hints at this.

[absinthedude]

Labels can be useful to help you find "your people". But the nuances can make putting people into nicely defined boxes difficult. And because the Abrahamic religions generally frown on people enjoying or discussing sex, little research has been done on this in the countries most well positioned to conduct research. Researchers like nicely defined boxes, but they don't really work in this area.

 

If you're of a certain age you were probably aware of straight and gay....maybe bi. But lived human experience shows there's more to that. Hence the Kinsey scale of sexual attraction which was possibly the first published attempt to show that people can be attracted to men and women, to different extents. We now recognise pansexual in addition to bi. And there are a host of other descriptors that some people use.

 

I really don't want to speculate about Ralf but there are people who are capable of falling in love and being physically intimate with people of all genders. Maybe he's into men and women and his marriage wasn't a sham. 

 

For some people the description of what people they are sexually and romantically attracted to are so complex that today they simply say "I'm queer"....which used to be an insult. 

[RacingFan10]

my friend's father is gay. guy was married to a woman for about 20 years and they had 3 children together.. the fact that you ain't seen a gay guy being married and having children, does not mean it does not happen

 

So what, its still not normal. is it? You aren't supposed to marry a woman if you don't like women at all... probably we're talking here more of a bisexual case but whatever.

 

Touching levels of naivety here

 

Care to elaborate a bit?

I have some gay male friends, they never ever been in relationship with a woman as you should expect from someone who isn't attracted to women.

Edited by RacingFan10, 19 July 2024 - 13:04.

[Autodromo]

 

So what, its still not normal. is it? You aren't supposed to marry a woman if you don't like women at all... probably we're talking here more of a bisexual case but whatever.

 

 

 

Care to elaborate a bit?

I have some gay male friends, they never ever been in relationship with a woman as you should expect from someone who isn't attracted to women.

 

Perhaps read my post #153 and some posts from others like Myrvold.  You are presuming that someone recognizes they have an attraction to the same sex at a young age, and that people aren't attracted to both sexes.  While I don't know about Ralf specifically, but how do you know he doesn't like women at all?  That seems to be a pretty big presumption.

[Myrvold]

Sorry for keeping this slightly OT, and answering personally/"about me".
 

Straying OT but reading Myrvold’s post kinda caught me off guard because I think on a forum like this you discuss certain topics and you learn which posters think along similar lines to you, which are a pain to debate with etc, but it all seems quite anonymized by the fact you’re all posting opinions on one specific topic. Then suddenly someone unexpectedly opens up about other things and you’re reminded that these aren’t just usernames posting opinions on Kevin Magnussen losing his Haas seat, these are real living, breathing people with a back story, and it’s quite cool actually. Maybe this is what people also easily forget on social media generally, and I include myself in that although I do try to remember. Maybe this is also relevant to Ralf Schumacher in a roundabout way. We know him as an early 2000s F1 driver who was handy, a bit arrogant and younger brother of a legend. That’s probably how 95% of his social media followers know him too. Opening up about your own life, whether on the Autosport forums or on Instagram to thousands of followers, is brave and very much to be applauded I think because there are a lot of idiots out there who think they can say and judge whatever they like.

 
I feel like forums are better than "modern social media" for actually getting to know usernames. As there are fewer here, and many, like me, are posting, potentially a bit too often. You pick up small things here and there through posts, and you start to "know" who you are talking with.
Some have done marshalling a lot, some have their hang-ups on certain drivers etc. I kinda like that.
And then, now and then you get some surprising PM's. I got one after the first or second time the Racing Pride thread gained traction, and I also had someone here offer to buy a t-shirt for me, as it couldn't be shipped to Norway, so he bought it, and shipped it himself. I covered the costs obviously. But I did not cover the costs for the many different M&M's I got in the package. "For eating or throwing at the TV to jinx Kyle Busch" as it said. We are a somewhat large community, but we are still small enough that we "know" many users. I like that.
 

Great Post @myrvold . Thanks for sharing a very common sense, real human experience. Wishing you all the best for the future. 

 
Thanks! The future brings what the future brings. Now I'm living alone for the first time in my life (went straight (heh) from living at home, to moving together with my now ex). That's probably about time at the age of 33...!
 

Well, you usually aren't married with a woman for a long time and have children if you are gay. You expect those things more from men who have been single always.

So what, its still not normal. is it? You aren't supposed to marry a woman if you don't like women at all... probably we're talking here more of a bisexual case but whatever.

Care to elaborate a bit?
I have some gay male friends, they never ever been in relationship with a woman as you should expect from someone who isn't attracted to women.

 

I know I used "normal" and "usual" in my post here, but I honestly don't feel normal is a word that fits. And "supposed to". I guess you're not "supposed" to be with a man for 16 years and then realize you like women either, but that's how it was for my ex. And yes, I know one can call him bi for it, but then you start to dig in to the differences of sexual attraction and love, and how you can be sexually attracted to someone, or a gender, without developing feelings.

 

Lots of "normal", "supposed", "expect" etc. here. Again, I'm just pouring out personal stuff, in for a penny in for pound or something I guess.
Back when I was 18, I got a crush on someone other than who I was with. I thought that meant I had lost the "needed" feelings, and all that stuff. It took my a while to realize that a crush disappears, and the feeling of actual love, doesn¨t disappear in that sense. Slightly badly translated, but there's a saying in Norway that is "Being in love is more than just falling in love". I learned that then. However, like it was with my ex. He never had a crush or anything on a woman. He knew that he found women more appealing in every way, but he still thought the feelings he had for me, was the extent of love he could feel, as he in general isn't a person that have a huge amount of feelings for anything. He is very much a it is what it is, and deal with it type. So he just went with it, up until he actually fell for a woman, and realized the difference in feelings. But it took him quite a while for that to happen. We had spoken about it before, and we both knew he wasn't gay, might not even be bi. What we sorta "landed" on in terms of labeling, was that he likes a person, regardless of gender, and that it is the person that counts. When in reality, he had just not met a person that "activated" those feelings.

 

Things aren't as black and white as you write them. I will be surprised if my ex ever get together with a dude again, even just for a night. I mean, I realized and accepted that I was gay back when I was 11, so I must admit it does throw my brain for a small loop how it works for my ex, but I would label him hetero. It just took him time to realize it.

 

Just like it might've taken Ralf Schumacher time to realize that he was in fact gay and not bi. Or maybe he always knew? We don't know.
 

Lovely post Myrvold, thanks for sharing. I guess the heart wants what it wants. You can't always predict it and you certainly can't control it.

One thing that has to be said for Ralf is that, however messy his divorce was, he maintains a close and loving relationship with his son. That has to be to his considerable credit.

 

The heart does want what it wants, or doesn't want what it doesn't want. if it could be controlled, I would probably not be single I feel slightly bad for my ex, not talking to be about it, but trying to hard to "force" himself to get back to feeling it was the right thing, but nope. Can't control it.

 

What I noticed while reading up about Cora and the TV stuff this year, was that it was mentioned somwhere that David Schumacher "has an estranged relationship with his mom". Not that it should be taken as any proof or anything, but I found it "interesting" (lack of better words) nonetheless.
 

I've had similar experiences happen.. twice.

First was a chick I had a huge crush on and chased for a long time, she liked the attention but eventually ended up telling me she was bi and had a gf.

Second one I dated her for a few months, gave up because things were just a bit frosty and it wasn't going anywhere, couple years later dated a friend of her and when I had to open up and say "look I don't know if this will be awkward but I've dated a friend of yours...", "wait what do you mean, she's lesbian?"

I don't know how to link this back to Ralf but yeah let's open up a club of guys who are really quite dense at picking up hints at this.

 

I have a friend who has been single all his life. In his words "I've fallen for three women, and made attempts to date... All three turned out to be lesbians and declined". 

I guess he just has an unforntunate type...
 

For some people the description of what people they are sexually and romantically attracted to are so complex that today they simply say "I'm queer"....which used to be an insult.

 
 Or like I say, even though it's not really complex for me: "I'm me". It doesn't really matter who I share a bed with, I am still me.

Yes, I wear a rainbow bracelet every day of the year, yes I do what I can to support LGBT youth, and for many it helps that I can say without issues that I am gay. At the same time, I'm still just.. me.

[Claudius]

Labels can be useful to help you find "your people". But the nuances can make putting people into nicely defined boxes difficult. And because the Abrahamic religions generally frown on people enjoying or discussing sex, little research has been done on this in the countries most well positioned to conduct research. Researchers like nicely defined boxes, but they don't really work in this area.

 

If you're of a certain age you were probably aware of straight and gay....maybe bi. But lived human experience shows there's more to that. Hence the Kinsey scale of sexual attraction which was possibly the first published attempt to show that people can be attracted to men and women, to different extents. We now recognise pansexual in addition to bi. And there are a host of other descriptors that some people use.

 

I really don't want to speculate about Ralf but there are people who are capable of falling in love and being physically intimate with people of all genders. Maybe he's into men and women and his marriage wasn't a sham. 

 

For some people the description of what people they are sexually and romantically attracted to are so complex that today they simply say "I'm queer"....which used to be an insult. 

 

Those pesky researchers with their nice little boxes eh... what do they know.

 

We are talking about well established categories that correspond to the material reality. It´s not as if all is plucked out of thin air. There are minor fluctuations inside the categories and between the categories but it´s not the typical pattern to have wild fluctuations.

[RacingFan10]

Perhaps read my post #153 and some posts from others like Myrvold.  You are presuming that someone recognizes they have an attraction to the same sex at a young age, and that people aren't attracted to both sexes.  While I don't know about Ralf specifically, but how do you know he doesn't like women at all?  That seems to be a pretty big presumption.

 

Gay = attracted to the same sex, Ralf publicly announced he's gay? And not bisexual. That's the part I'm surprised, I would say bisexual fits more the case

[Autodromo]

Gay = attracted to the same sex, Ralf publicly announced he's gay? And not bisexual. That's the part I'm surprised, I would say bisexual fits more the case

I'm trying to figure out why you care.  For many people this is just normal and I've known people who have been in similar situations.  He did not say he was gay or bisexual or pansexual or asexual.  He said he has found a partner and that partner is a man, if I have translated correctly.

[Zmeej]

Gay = attracted to the same sex, Ralf publicly announced he's gay? And not bisexual. That's the part I'm surprised, I would say bisexual fits more the case

 

Hmmm.

 

I would say that Ralf is the person who is best suited to determine what "fits his case."

 

Apart from that, "Gay = attracted to the same sex"?

 

Edited by Zmeej, 20 July 2024 - 03:14.

[Outsider]

Gay = attracted to the same sex, Ralf publicly announced he's gay? And not bisexual. That's the part I'm surprised, I would say bisexual fits more the case

did he announce anything particular? he just said that it is nice to find a partner with whom you can share life. i don't think he labeled himself somehow?

and to be honest - is that really our thing to discuss?

[FirstnameLastname]

Australia 2002 finally makes sense

[andysaint]

People will find love and happiness with who they do and they shouldn’t be criticised for it. Personally I don’t think of this as news for publication but I understand why some think it is. What I do find degrading and immoral is the public bickering. I see it’s come up again with he said she said. Leave it behind closed doors.

[se7en_24]

Mate it had all been forgotten about a month ago before you resurfaced the thread. 

[PayasYouRace]

People will find love and happiness with who they do and they shouldn’t be criticised for it. Personally I don’t think of this as news for publication but I understand why some think it is. What I do find degrading and immoral is the public bickering. I see it’s come up again with he said she said. Leave it behind closed doors.

Clearly you thought it’s big news because you searched for it and commented on it after a month of it being forgotten.

[FLB]

Clearly you thought it’s big news because you searched for it and commented on it after a month of it being forgotten.

Well, there *is* some reason to bring a dedicated Ralf Schumacher thread back up: His return to racing was successful. He won both of his ADAC Prototype Cup Germany races last weekend, co-driving with his son:

 

https://www.dailyspo...schumacher.html

[Risil]

"Finally, [a dedicated] Ralf [Schumacher thread]!"

[PayasYouRace]

"Finally, [a dedicated] Ralf [Schumacher thread]!"

Oh no! A driver thread.

[andysaint]

Sorry, yes there was no call to drag that thread up again. I didn’t realise it had gone down the list as it had

[Clatter]

Surprised about the claims that everybody knew in Germany. Living in Austria when Ralf drove in F1 and in Germany for 20+ years, I never heard or read anything that gave me a hint.

Good for him, congrats.

I can remember an article with another driver (can't remember who) where they said that at least one current driver was gay. Think that was from Ralfs time, but no names. If so many really knew, I don't think they would all have kept quite about it.

[Gambelli]

 
Thanks. Didn't expect the "blow up" of reactions, but it just hits close to home, not in a sad way, just relatable.
 

 
Things change, it's just how life is. For better and worse!
 

 
Haha. No worries. I mean, with what he knows today, I guess it wasn't "true love". But for all he knew for the majority of the time we were together, it was what he knew as love. So... Genuinely, I don't know what to call it. What we both know was that the years were fun, happy, social etc. No regrets for any of us ^^,
 

 

I must admit, I just assumed you identified as a cat all this time!

 

Thanks for sharing, we learn so much from people who are prepared to share things that can be personal, or confronting etc

[Gambelli]

I've never understood the obsession about labels.

 

I'm very basic, you have an attraction with someone, doesn't matter who, labels, gender, identity, you hope it's mutual, then you hope the sex lives up to the chemistry and anticipation!  Simples!