91 replies to this topic

[SophieB]

Jon Noble:

 

The Alpine Formula 1 team is closing in on a deal with Mercedes for a technical partnership that will include engine, gearbox and suspension – and could even start in 2025.

 

https://www.autospor...-2025/10637837/

[Gareth]

Presumably the first  step in a process for Renault to sell off the team.

 

I guess the budget cap makes the smaller teams of interest to non-automotive/marketing players, like the PE guys that own Williams, as it's possible to run in F1 at a profit nowadays?

[SophieB]

I know it’s more emotional than logical but I had a really bad feeling for the longterm future of the team when they let Alan Permane go.

[Myrvold]

Oh. Losing an engine manufacturer. Great. (Yes, I know that Ford is arriving, but 5 would be better!)

[pdac]

Oh. Losing an engine manufacturer. Great. (Yes, I know that Ford is arriving, but 5 would be better!)

 

If they only allow one tyre supplier, they should also only allow one PU supplier (or maybe one power-train supplier).

[macjim]

Presumably the first  step in a process for Renault to sell off the team.

 

I guess the budget cap makes the smaller teams of interest to non-automotive/marketing players, like the PE guys that own Williams, as it's possible to run in F1 at a profit nowadays?

It looks that way, Renault just never succeeded as a team. Too may cooks and no longer term vision.

 

I cannot see a long term future for Virily either, are they going to invest all the money on the new engines with no team to supply.

 

It’s a shame for the engine side, all the success they had when Williams were sweeping all before them and the Vettel championships but they got so little credit.

[Joseki]

Oh. Losing an engine manufacturer. Great. (Yes, I know that Ford is arriving, but 5 would be better!)

Ferrari

Mercedes

Honda

Audi

Ford

 

That's already five from 2026, with Renault it would be six.

[pacificquay]

It looks that way, Renault just never succeeded as a team. Too may cooks and no longer term vision.

 

 

Aside from 2 world championships and a bunch of wins?

[noikeee]

Obviously he means the current iteration of the team.

[pacificquay]

If I was Jim Vowles, I’d be looking for a Honda deal now

[Risil]

That's troubling news but I couldn't give you a strong argument for what the purpose is of Renault's involvement in F1.

The Enstone operation is going backwards as things stand so I expect they could benefit from new owners.

[Joseki]

If I was Jim Vowles, I’d be looking for a Honda deal now

 

Aston Martin has an exclusivity deal with Honda, so they'd need to be approved by AM for the deal.

[FirstnameLastname]

Aston Martin has an exclusivity deal with Honda, so they'd need to be approved by AM for the deal.

How does the ‘all teams are guaranteed an engine’ thing work?

[FirstnameLastname]

Wonder what they’d brand it as… Hope it’s one of the old style made up engine names. A playlife or something like that

[Secretariat]

Antonelli's apprenticeship program.

[Clrnc]

I think Alpine saw what Mclaren and AM could do as a customer team and decided to follow suit. More chance of success than keep using their underpowered and super unreliable parts 

[messy]

True story - My in-laws live next door to a couple who were married for years then one day the bloke moved out and moved in with another, younger woman. Three years later, he returned and they just picked up where they left off and wouldn’t even mention the previous three years, they didn’t happen. Their friends thought it was ridiculous and warned her off taking him back, friendships were lost and they became very isolated but still wouldn’t even acknowledge the split had ever happened. Now he’s gone and moved out again. I feel like Renault are maybe watching and taking notes. They’re inevitably selling up again aren’t they. I feel for Enstone, but also feel like they might be considerably better off breaking their constant on/off, toxic relationship with Renault and hope they find the right buyer who can get them back to being the strong race team they’ve always been despite all the chaos going on with their owners. Just don’t take them back next time, they’re no good, you’re better off without them!

Surely they’re really attractive too because kinda uniquely (well, aside from RB), they’re an established race team with no established identity at all. Buy them, call them what you like, paint them whatever colour you like, total blank canvas.

Edited by messy, 23 July 2024 - 11:43.

[krapmeister]

I think Alpine saw what Mclaren and AM could do as a customer team and decided to follow suit. More chance of success than keep using their underpowered and super unreliable parts

I'd imagine it's a sh!tload cheaper than building and developing their own engines too...

[jwill189]

I wonder how long employees in Viry stopped giving 100% towards developing the new engine with all the rumours of their department being closed.

[Clatter]

Aside from 2 world championships and a bunch of wins?

Plus a bunch more as a supplier.

[Bendo]

How does the ‘all teams are guaranteed an engine’ thing work?

Quite simply if no manufacturer is willing to supply one, then the one that supplys the least teams has to. As Mercedes seems happy to supply, it isn't an issue for Honda here.

[Nathan]

Antonelli's apprenticeship program.

 

That's a good thought!

[pdac]

Aston Martin has an exclusivity deal with Honda, so they'd need to be approved by AM for the deal.

 

 

How does the ‘all teams are guaranteed an engine’ thing work?

 

Indeed. I would say it's impossible for a PU manufacturer to give a team an exclusive deal unless it's for their first year's supply.

[macjim]

Aside from 2 world championships and a bunch of wins?

Yes, but that was 18 years ago - A lifetime in F1.

[Secretariat]

That's a good thought!

I brought it up as a discussion point in the Silly Season thread a few weeks ago. It seems logical since Vowles has been very clear he wants experienced drivers to which I will take him at his word. Now with Antonelli revealing his feelings about the jump to F1, a factory Mercedes seat does not seem possible. So, its 2 years in F2 or an apprenticeship with another customer team. Cue Alpine. Given the kind words Wolff has for Briatore and experience Briatore has with high profile drivers, Wolff probably feels very comfortable leaving him in Briatore's hands on loan. Even if no customer deal comes, I can see it happening as it still would be a win for both sides. 

 

For Alpine specifically, on one hand it would be a PR loss to consign their power units to the scrapheap. On the other hand it would be a PR win to have the next racing messiah on the team....a lot of eyeballs will be watching the team.

Edited by Secretariat, 23 July 2024 - 12:42.

[Miles749]

I brought it up as a discussion point in the Silly Season thread a few weeks ago. It seems logical since Vowles has been very clear he wants experienced drivers to which I will take him at his word. Now with Antonelli revealing his feelings about the jump to F1, a factory Mercedes seat does not seem possible. So, its 2 years in F2 or an apprenticeship with another customer team. Cue Alpine. Given the kind words Wolff has for Briatore and experience Briatore has with high profile drivers, Wolff probably feels very comfortable leaving him in Briatore's hands on loan. Even if no customer deal comes, I can see it happening as it still would be a win for both sides. 

 

For Alpine specifically, on one hand it would be a PR loss to consign their power units to the scrapheap. On the other hand it would be a PR win to have the next racing messiah on the team....a lot of eyeballs will be watching the team.

But who then drives for Mercedes next year? 

 

I thought Bottas would make sense but he doesn't seem interested. 

[Secretariat]

But who then drives for Mercedes next year? 

 

I thought Bottas would make sense but he doesn't seem interested. 

I don't know. But it does seem possible given Antonelli's recent statements that the Mercedes seat is not a 2025 only seat anymore. If they have another customer in Alpine, Antonelli's path can very well follow Russell's (which is not a bad thing) in a better positioned team than Russell ever was at Williams. 

Edited by Secretariat, 23 July 2024 - 12:52.

[FirstnameLastname]

Staff at Viry being prepped:

https://www.motorspo...eview/10637920/

[William Hunt]

Very very very bad news for all the staff at Viry. That's going to be a bloodbath in terms of people losing their job, thanks to Di Meo who wanted to do that in the first place because of cost saving. Cost saving equals job loss in this case though. The Viry factory has such a great reputation. Just think about all the titles Renault won with their engine when they powered Red Bull, Williams, Benetton and off course also their own team. It's unbelievable what Di Meo is doing. A car manufacturer should also never run the engine of another car manufacturer, it's very bad publicity for Renault, it's stupid marketing wise.

[pdac]

Past success counts for nothing, anywhere. The only thing past success does is provide a brand name that someone might want to buy and use on their own products.

Edited by pdac, 23 July 2024 - 15:48.

[Miles749]

As soon as they renamed into Alpine the writing was on the wall. I expect them to sell the team and shut down the engine operation. 

[hollowstar]

This is so weird to me. As if Mercedes would suddenly get Ferrari engines. I just don't understand it.

But you guys must be right that it could mean they'll soon sell the team.

[Myrvold]

Ferrari
Mercedes
Honda
Audi
Ford

That's already five from 2026, with Renault it would be six.

Oooh. I forgot that Audi is doing an engine as well!

[Henri Greuter]

Very very very bad news for all the staff at Viry. That's going to be a bloodbath in terms of people losing their job, thanks to Di Meo who wanted to do that in the first place because of cost saving. Cost saving equals job loss in this case though. The Viry factory has such a great reputation. Just think about all the titles Renault won with their engine when they powered Red Bull, Williams, Benetton and off course also their own team. It's unbelievable what Di Meo is doing. A car manufacturer should also never run the engine of another car manufacturer, it's very bad publicity for Renault, it's stupid marketing wise.

 

Aston Martin &  McLaren beg you to change your opinion I guess

 

 

But I also feel some sadness about Renault leaving. They remain for once and for all the pioneers of my beloved turbocharged engines within F1.

Still funny that their biggest successes were with atmo's.

No real fan of them but they have a history in F1 that can  not be underestimated.

[Joseki]

Aston Martin &  McLaren beg you to change your opinion I guess

 

 

But I also feel some sadness about Renault leaving. They remain for once and for all the pioneers of my beloved turbocharged engines within F1.

Still funny that their biggest successes were with atmo's.

No real fan of them but they have a history in F1 that can  not be underestimated.

Aston Martin and McLaren don't make the engine for their street cars either.

[George Costanza]

Aston Martin and McLaren don't make the engine for their street cars either.

Cosworth right?

[MikeTekRacing]

I thought Mclaren do their own in some partnership with someone?

[Clatter]

Cosworth right?

 

Ricardo build Mclarens engines and Aston use Mercedes engines.

[MikeTekRacing]

Ricardo, that was the name. It's a partnership though, I think Mclaren play a big role there

[P123]

Very very very bad news for all the staff at Viry. That's going to be a bloodbath in terms of people losing their job, thanks to Di Meo who wanted to do that in the first place because of cost saving. Cost saving equals job loss in this case though. The Viry factory has such a great reputation. Just think about all the titles Renault won with their engine when they powered Red Bull, Williams, Benetton and off course also their own team. It's unbelievable what Di Meo is doing. A car manufacturer should also never run the engine of another car manufacturer, it's very bad publicity for Renault, it's stupid marketing wise.

 

This is the bunch that rebranded the team to Alpine to begin with...

[Lennat]

It will most likely be a good move result wise, but I still find it horribly boring and uninspiring.

[FNG]

I can't see how you can possibly market this. "Alpine, we build the car but our engine is crap, so we use a Merc" Ya that will sell a lot of your cars and add to your brand prestige.

 

Just sell the team

[FLB]

I can't see how you can possibly market this. "Alpine, we build the car but our engine is crap, so we use a Merc" Ya that will sell a lot of your cars and add to your brand prestige.

 

Just sell the team

For a while, some Mercedes trucks used a Renault engine. So did the diesel Mercedes A-Klasse. For somebody who comes from the industry like de Meo, using somebody else's engine is a complete non-issue. Alpine is in F1 to raise brand awareness, nothing else.

 

 

Just saying.

[FirstnameLastname]

Alpine Playlife ?

[AlexPrime]

Imagine if Flavio lures tne Benetton name back!

[peroa]

Very very very bad news for all the staff at Viry. That's going to be a bloodbath in terms of people losing their job, thanks to Di Meo who wanted to do that in the first place because of cost saving. Cost saving equals job loss in this case though. The Viry factory has such a great reputation. Just think about all the titles Renault won with their engine when they powered Red Bull, Williams, Benetton and off course also their own team. It's unbelievable what Di Meo is doing. A car manufacturer should also never run the engine of another car manufacturer, it's very bad publicity for Renault, it's stupid marketing wise.

True but I wasn't surprised TBH, Merc and Renault are doing a lot together in the "real world".

[ATM]

No need to sell it if it's still profitabile în itself, under the cost cap.
Not having a customer engine team hits hard though, when it comes to developing a new one- de Meo has this...well, shall we say, different approach than Carlos Ghosn-less in house integratons, more partnerships, less budget more money. Quick money.

[Sterzo]

This is so weird to me. As if Mercedes would suddenly get Ferrari engines. I just don't understand it.

But you guys must be right that it could mean they'll soon sell the team.

Exactly. It makes perfect sense if Renault want to pull out of F1. They can cut their losses by selling the team, but to do that they must first make it able to survive with a customer engine.

[peroa]

Exactly. It makes perfect sense if Renault want to pull out of F1. They can cut their losses by selling the team, but to do that they must first make it able to survive with a customer engine.

But it makes no sense really to sell the team, it's worth a fortune and generates money.

They made the mistake not getting a customer for their engines, though.

[Clatter]

But it makes no sense really to sell the team, it's worth a fortune and generates money.

They made the mistake not getting a customer for their engines, though.

 

They would have had a customer, if they and the rest of the grid were not so hellbent on keeping newcomers out.