61 replies to this topic

[SophieB]

The idea of a wildcard system being introduced to Formula 1 to offer race opportunities for rookie drivers was put up for discussion by teams and series bosses this week.
Autosport has learned that one of the items put forward for evaluation at a meeting of the F1 Commission in London on Tuesday was whether a wildcard scheme had merit to be introduced.
The impetus for it was believed to revolve around offering a greater opportunity for young or rookie drivers to get race experience in F1 – and it is something that works well in other categories like MotoGP where extra bikes are entered.

This idea, of swapping drivers, is understood to have been the main thrust of the proposal at the F1 Commission. However, there was a swift conclusion that it would not be a good move for teams nor fans.
While big name stars like Max Verstappen, Lewis Hamilton and Lando Norris have to sit out one free practice session per year for a rookie to take over their car, it was felt that extending this to an entire weekend would be a step too far.
Although the wildcard idea has been shelved for now, F1 and teams still want to evaluate ways to give rookies more track time. This could come from extra practice sessions.

 
  
https://www.autospor...ivers/10638163/

[Muppetmad]

I'd be all for it, and I can only see upsides. Seeing some up-and-coming talent get a proper shot at a race weekend would be delightful. Furthermore, the season is so long now that, in truth, I think the drivers would be relieved to be forced to sit out for a weekend or two. It'd be fascinating to see which race/s the title contenders choose to sit out, and whether they ultimately make the right decision.

[ATM]

Would the wildcards have the obligation for the super licence points? If yes, I would have been for it.

[Stoffel]

Wildcard entries for young/rookie drivers would be a great idea but they would need to be an additional entry just like wildcards in MotoGP, not a replacement for the existing race drivers.

Edited by Stoffel, 24 July 2024 - 09:51.

[Anderis]

I'd be all for it, and I can only see upsides. Seeing some up-and-coming talent get a proper shot at a race weekend would be delightful. Furthermore, the season is so long now that, in truth, I think the drivers would be relieved to be forced to sit out for a weekend or two. It'd be fascinating to see which race/s the title contenders choose to sit out, and whether they ultimately make the right decision.

I don't think the idea will go anywhere if the regular drivers have to sit out a race. I imagine race promotors, fans etc. would be pretty disappointed to find out one of the top drivers is sitting out the race that takes place on their circuit.

 

Would the wildcards have the obligation for the super licence points? If yes, I would have been for it.

Pretty sure they wouldn't allow a driver without a superlicence to participate in an F1 race. That's the point of the superlicence.

[onemoresolo]

I'd be all for it, and I can only see upsides. Seeing some up-and-coming talent get a proper shot at a race weekend would be delightful. Furthermore, the season is so long now that, in truth, I think the drivers would be relieved to be forced to sit out for a weekend or two. It'd be fascinating to see which race/s the title contenders choose to sit out, and whether they ultimately make the right decision.

 

If you paid £1,000 for a couple of tickets to Silverstone and it was subsequently announced that your favourite driver was sitting out that one, you'd be furious. It would be a clear negative for race-going fans.

[jonpollak]

I like it…
Just not Colton Herta.

Jp

[southernstars]

I think we'd also see an FP1-like situation where FP1 in Abu Dhabi is full of rookies. Teams would just race the championship until Brazil and then we'd be flooded with wildcards in Abu Dhabi.

[Muppetmad]

I don't think the idea will go anywhere if the regular drivers have to sit out a race. I imagine race promotors, fans etc. would be pretty disappointed to find out one of the top drivers is sitting out the race that takes place on their circuit.

 

If you paid £1,000 for a couple of tickets to Silverstone and it was subsequently announced that your favourite driver was sitting out that one, you'd be furious. It would be a clear negative for race-going fans.

Fair points!

[geoffd]

How about all rookie sprint races?

[Risil]

Benching regular drivers doesn't sound good. Third cars would be interesting.

[JHSingo]

 F1 and teams still want to evaluate ways to give rookies more track time. This could come from extra practice sessions.

 

I've got a crazy idea, hear me out. Why not just allow two or three more teams to enter, then there'd be more seats potentially available for rookies? Problem solved. 

[Stoffel]

Benching regular drivers doesn't sound good. Third cars would be interesting.

 

This.

 

If we can't have more cars because the current teams don't want any new teams joining their party at least give us a few more cars this way.

[LolaB0860]

There would be logistical hurdles to overcome too. Teams only bring two built up chassis to a race weekend, and there would be endless complications to run an extra car - even before any consideration is given to personnel to run them, plus garage space in the pitlane which is already limited.

Excuses. And funny how many other categories manage it fine.

Obviously this would be no-go at Monaco and Zandvoort and some other places but easily doable in some circuits. They don't have Sprints ™ every race, wouldn't have to be the case here either. Allow third car at Spa and Monza and wherever you have space.

And as for cost cap, that's just detail that can be worked around, just as they give extra cash for having to do Sprints ™ too. Finally, if you didn't mandate these "wildcards" but just made them optional one-offs, poor Haas and Williams wouldn't be required to run them if they didn't want to.

But at least it's nice they're thinking of third cars. The rest of the suggestions, switching regular drivers is stupid though.

Edited by LolaB0860, 24 July 2024 - 10:36.

[Risil]

I've got a crazy idea, hear me out. Why not just allow two or three more teams to enter, then there'd be more seats potentially available for rookies? Problem solved.

We've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas

[Beri]

Third cars or enter and ApexGP like team as an FOM/FIA funded team for an X amount of races per season. Ineligible for points in the Constructors but eligible for drivers points and having to field new drivers every race or every driver can only participate in 2 Grands Prix per season.

[RedRabbit]

We've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas

Sums up the whole meeting. The biggest change is going back to 9 days preseason testing. F1 is such a lame duck about implementing worthwhile and good ideas.

If they can't make more money, it just doesn't happen.

[Secretariat]

Question about logistics and space: Is it known how much F1 teams dedicate pit/garage space to VIP sections? I cannot get over the notion that other series are able to cope but F1 cannot. 

Edited by Secretariat, 24 July 2024 - 10:55.

[RedRabbit]

Third cars or enter and ApexGP like team as an FOM/FIA funded team for an X amount of races per season. Ineligible for points in the Constructors but eligible for drivers points and having to field new drivers every race or every driver can only participate in 2 Grands Prix per season.

But no Andretti

[RedRabbit]

Wildcard entries for young/rookie drivers would be a great idea but they would need to be an additional entry just like wildcards in MotoGP, not a replacement for the existing race drivers.

Only F1 would twist Wild Cards into Replacement entry. Entirely defeats the idea

[Anja]

I think we'd also see an FP1-like situation where FP1 in Abu Dhabi is full of rookies. Teams would just race the championship until Brazil and then we'd be flooded with wildcards in Abu Dhabi.

 

Pretty much, yeah. On the other hand it might at least make Abu Dhabi a bit more exciting, if that's even possible 

[sterlingfan2000]

We can't have a grid with 30 Cars. Cars are too long, too big.

I think we could have maximum 25 cars. So if u want 3 seats per Team, u have to remove 2 Teams.

[SophieB]

I’ve added a poll, why the heck not.

[ensign14]

I said it before - sprint race should be for drivers who have never driven in a WC round before.  Would only be a 10 car field but so what?  If points counted for the WCC we might see some more talents rather than ridebuyers.

[Larunss]

I've got a crazy idea, hear me out. Why not just allow two or three more teams to enter, then there'd be more seats potentially available for rookies? Problem solved. 

 

Precisely!

 

They are once again trying to beat around the bush rather than tackle the root cause of the problem. Not enough seats. And stop the testing ban. Let the juniors clock up mileage during testing. The cost cap shall be the limit, rather than an outright testing ban.

 

Plenty of talent out there, but there is still life left in the old dogs and the young guns must prove that they truly DESERVE the place on the grid. It is not the fault of Fernando that the young guns such as Ocon or Stroll cant send him into retirement. It took Giovinazzi 3 seasons to get the upper hand over Kimi in Quali, but the old and past his prime Kimi still outscored GIO in his last season.  Lewis still going strong. So there is no reason to bench any of these star drivers, just because someone thinks they DESERVE something. The truly talented ones, like Max, Lando make a mark. Just ask Kvyat.

 

A couple of true backmarkers are what F1 is missing. Like early 2000`s Minardi. Alonso and Webber utilized those slows Minardi`s to showcase their talent and proved they DESERVE proper race cars. Thanks to the franchise model of current F1, no true backmarkers anymore so difficult to join the grid. Even the Red Bull driver academy seems stalled with the whole RIC, TSU and PER situation.

Could argue that someone like Magnussen shall be booted, but then again, just 2 years ago he totally destroyed the supposed new talent Mick, so its not like he is out of his depth. 

 

SO yeah, I would totally despise the idea of going to Hungaroring next year only to find out that some rookie parade is shown rather than Max v Lewis v Lando v Charles.

[kumo7]

I voted and now 100%! 

 

BTW, The car must be prepared by different teams evertime it goes out. So you have 20 races where 21 drivers run.

Edited by kumo7, 24 July 2024 - 11:14.

[Beri]

But no Andretti

Well apparently that's an issue to the FOM. So my solution would be the best of both worlds I'd say.

[JimmyClark]

I've said for ages they should do it for sprint races. Each driver stands down for a young driver for a sprint twice a year.

[absinthedude]

Do it for the sprints, and ensure that the sprints don't count towards the World Championship....which is something I've always said they got fundamentally wrong with the sprint format. WDC and WCC points are scored on Sunday (unless the grand prix is held on a different day). 

 

Or have a rule which permits each team to enter a 3rd driver, who must have fewer than 10 grand prix starts under his belt, for up to three races in the year. 

 

The problem with an established or even star driver missing a race or two for a rookie is that a good number of the spectators at the track will have bought their ticket expecting to see Max, Lando, Lewis, Charles & co. 

[mhno1f]

How about all rookie sprint races?

I think this is the only way it could possibly work, perhaps 2 sprints per season are for rookies (i.e. mileage is put in the engines of both main drivers in a team once). But would have to have a completely different rookie championship & points. 

[PlatenGlass]

This looks like a sticking plaster for the entirely broken system that is F1.

The idea that a "top level sport" should be such a closed shop with just 20 gate-kept places is what needs looking at.

[Nathan]

Gimmicky.

 

 

The idea that a "top level sport" should be such a closed shop with just 20 gate-kept places is what needs looking at.

 

 

Every top level sport limits the numbers of participants.  All of them.  If BPL just let in 4 more teams, 80+ more players could play in the BPL, dozens more coaches, trainers etc., 4 more fan bases could be in the big time.  NFL could have 40 teams if it wanted to, doesn't diminish what exists now.

[JvsKVB77]

We have junior serieses for junior drivers. If driver is ready he go to F1 and take fulltime seat in F1. Give juniors 4 mandatory FP1 and more actual test opportunities. And give them more FP in F2 and F3)  That where is lack of track time.

Edited by JvsKVB77, 24 July 2024 - 12:08.

[Myrvold]

Every top level sport limits the numbers of participants. All of them. If BPL just let in 4 more teams, 80+ more players could play in the BPL, dozens more coaches, trainers etc., 4 more fan bases could be in the big time. NFL could have 40 teams if it wanted to, doesn't diminish what exists now.

You can't compare it to a league that has promotion and relegation.
While the British Premier League has a set number of teams, you and your buddies cam start a team at the bottom of the pyramid, and that team have the chance of reaching Premier League.

[Alan Lewis]

You can't compare it to a league that has promotion and relegation.
While the British Premier League has a set number of teams, you and your buddies cam start a team at the bottom of the pyramid, and that team have the chance of reaching Premier League.

That's what keeps us Kidderminster Harriers fans hoping year on year (just five more promotions...) 🙂

[PlatenGlass]

Gimmicky.




Every top level sport limits the numbers of participants. All of them. If BPL just let in 4 more teams, 80+ more players could play in the BPL, dozens more coaches, trainers etc., 4 more fan bases could be in the big time. NFL could have 40 teams if it wanted to, doesn't diminish what exists now.

Not to the same extent as F1, and in fact I don't think it's even true.

In other sports that have individual champions (e.g. tennis) you have to qualify for tournaments but anyone can work their way up and qualify.

And in team sports (e.g. football (soccer)), there are 20 teams (each with 11 players in a match plus subs) in the Premier league (as many as there are drivers in the whole of F1) plus there's other countries' leagues. And those not in top divisions are still playing exactly the same sport. There's no comparison really.

Other sports are not as stagnant and unhealthy as F1.

Edited by PlatenGlass, 24 July 2024 - 13:38.

[New Britain]

I've got a crazy idea, hear me out. Why not just allow two or three more teams to enter, then there'd be more seats potentially available for rookies? Problem solved. 

How could we know in advance that the additional teams would be 'competitive'? How could we be sure that there would be sufficient 'understanding of the scope of the challenge involved'?

Don't you know that there are only 10 organisations on earth capable of competing at the 'pinnacle of world motor sport'?

[IrvTheSwerve]

I think third cars would be off-limits due to cost implications.

 

I'd like to see more cars on the grid, even single car teams would be cool. If there was a team with 1 car that fielded 5 or 6 different drivers through the year, that would be great. We all know stuff like that would be off-limits due to the teams though.

[jonklug]

I love the idea of bringing them in a 3rd car, we'd have so many drivers getting a shot here and there.

[ANF]

"Make it mandatory for the teams to have a reserve driver in FP1 every weekend. The regular race drivers will take turns in sitting out FP1. Reserve drivers will get more experience and exposure. Fans and sponsors will be happy. F1.com will have more drivers to write about."

Excellent idea floated by me last year.

[JHSingo]

I love the idea of bringing them in a 3rd car, we'd have so many drivers getting a shot here and there.

 

I don't. Third cars are a terrible idea, and always have been. 

 

Imagine a season like last year, where one team is head and shoulders clear of the rest. Suddenly, every race is an easy 1-2-3, and you've eliminated the interest of who can snag a podium. Last year was bad enough, but at least the other teams were closely matched enough that there was still some excitement over who'd get the final podium spot. 

 

Plus, third cars probably increase the chance of team orders too. 

Edited by JHSingo, 24 July 2024 - 14:13.

[garoidb]

In the past, third cars with young drivers (or even not so young) provided a point of interest at a small number of Grands Prix. I don't think they really facilitated anyone's big breakthrough though, that wasn't going to happen anyway. Any number of teams you have will be one or two too few to give every hot prospect an opportunity. I would love to see 26 again, but it wouldn't magically transform the chances for young drivers. Several of the extra six seats would end up being occupied by veterans IMO, and people would still think one or two more teams would resolve the situation. The loss of testing is what changed the picture, but it's very difficult to see how that could be reversed, given the environmental (and cost) reasons for the restriction in the first place. All I can think of is a new team to act as the Toro Rosso for the entire grid, always taking young drivers (who must be freed from existing obligations to any other team) and giving them 10 to 20 or 30 races to prove themselves but no long term tenure. If you are not picked up by another team after a maximum of 30 races, out you go and someone else comes in. An experienced driver could be retained to do some FP1 set-up driving or back-to-back comparisons. All data would be shared to all teams. This would have to have guaranteed funding from Liberty or F1, clawing back what they could from sponsorship.

[mclarensmps]

I had suggested doing this for sprint races...

[MikeTekRacing]

I had suggested doing this for sprint races...

a bit problematic with possible damage to the race cars for the main drivers (not enough time to fix for qualy). 
i know the risk is there in FP too, but wheel to wheel racing in a sprint is clearly  more dangerous than a FP.

 

I like the idea of wildcards, can't see it happen under budget constraints. With taking them outside of the budget cap or replacements instead of wildcards - the wildcards would potentially be testing mules. The temptation and return would be too big for the large teams not to go that way. 

[Ali623]

I'd be all for it, and I can only see upsides. Seeing some up-and-coming talent get a proper shot at a race weekend would be delightful. Furthermore, the season is so long now that, in truth, I think the drivers would be relieved to be forced to sit out for a weekend or two. It'd be fascinating to see which race/s the title contenders choose to sit out, and whether they ultimately make the right decision.

 

I completely disagree with the suggestion of rookies replacing fulltime drivers for certain races. F1 is meant to be the pinnacle of motorsport, F2 and F3 are meant to be the testing ground for F1 prospects, and the average fan isn't going to be interested to see a bunch of randoms replacing Verstappen, Hamilton and Norris for a Grand Prix. Also, no driver is ever going to be relieved to sit out a GP, as much as some moan about the number of races these days. (Why would I be relieved to sit out a GP for a young driver that could potentially replace me with a good performance?)

 

What's the problem this is trying to solve anyway? I don't really see how this is giving more opportunties to rookies, because ultimately the one's that would be getting these drives would be the one's already on track for an F1 seat in the future anyway, as they'd already be a part of a junior team. If anything, it would just make F2/3 results even less relevant, as we've seen with Bearman for example.

Edited by Ali623, 24 July 2024 - 17:23.

[MikeTekRacing]

Bearman is a good example. I am not following this season of F2 but the numbers look bad for him.

It must be frustrating to do better than him in F2 and be passed for a role by someone that's not even close to the top 3

[William Hunt]

Rookie Sprint races is by far my preferred option

[DW46]

I had suggested doing this for sprint races...

I’ve been reliably informed there isn’t enough garage space for two more cars.

[pdac]

If you paid £1,000 for a couple of tickets to Silverstone and it was subsequently announced that your favourite driver was sitting out that one, you'd be furious. It would be a clear negative for race-going fans.

 

See, all of the problems with F1 are not the teams fault, it's all the fault of the fans wanting more than they deserve. They pay a paltry £1,000 and expect the earth.

[ClubmanGT]

*breathes in*

 

THIRD CARS

THIRD CARS

THIRD CARS

THIRD CARS

 

Also, local wildcards would absolutely explode the popularity of the sport in many countries. There's so many Aussie or Kiwi journeymen who just end up in Supercars because F1 isn't accessible without something like Red Bull or FDA backing. SVG/Dixon/McLaughlin/Murphy have proven talent isn't the issue. 

 

Imagine bringing Vettel back for a German Grand Prix, or parachuting in Colton Herta for a US GP. Rallying has already proven how successful this can be, it's time to rethink it for F1.