8 replies to this topic

[FlyingSaucer]

Despite having already been the topic of countless conversations and posts here on the forum, in the end, it seems that the subject of identifying Maseratis 4CLT never seems to dry-up, being a never ending discussion. Well this time it's my fault - so, blame on me!

 

In this case, I'm trying to trace the history of some Maseratis 4CLTs that ended up in South America during the 1950s. As always, the history of many of these cars after their original owners is hazy, but even so, it doesn't hurt to try my luck here. I'm specifically looking to revive a chapter in the history of these cars between the end of the 50s and the beginning of the 60s, for a project of mine. The drivers I'm looking for information about are:

 

 

Astrubal Bayardo (URU): Maserati 4CLT-48 (#1608)

Nasif Estefano (ARG): Maserati 4CLT-48 (#1602)

Hector Marcial Fojo (URU): Maserati 4CLT-48 (#?)

Luis Brosutti (ARG): Maserati 4CLT-48 (#1599)

 

 

Some sources indicate that at least 7 CL, CLT and CLT-48 chassis were still racing in South America until the early 60s, in various forms and modifications. Of this grand total of seven, two can be discarded for the drivers above: the A.C.A. cars, (#1599 and #1600), who are the only ones in SA, as far as I know, that have a large part of their "competition lives" recorded, proven and available on the internet. I presented in parentheses the chassis numbers for Estefano and Bayardo's cars which, I believe, belonged to these drivers, based on research and cross-checked information from various sources - even so, I'm not 100% confident about these, so any correction that can guarantee or dismiss my suspects will be welcome.

 

Regarding Fojo and Brossuti's cars, I have not found any records or clues that could lead me to the right path of finding information about either machine. 

 

Therefore, I ask if anyone has information about the Maserati chassis belonging to each of drivers mentioned above?

 

 

EDIT 1 (26 JULY): Brosutti's car was identified as one of the A.C.A. cars, chassis number 1599 (thxs to the book Maserati 4clt: The Remarkable History of Chassis No. 1600). Missing now are the chassis number of Fojos's Maserati and the confirmation about Estefano and Bayardo's cars.

EDIT 2 (16 AUGUST): Go to https://forums.autos...ime/?p=10694897 post

Edited by FlyingSaucer, 16 August 2024 - 12:49.

[invictaguy]

As has been shown by the deafening silence in answer to your question, there is no-one on TNF nowadays who has the knowledge answer such questions.

 

I have sent you a PM.

[Henk Vasmel]

A possible source for information would be "From Voiturettes to Formula 1", which deals with these cars. I haven't finished reading it (and collecting info for my database). Anyway, I quickly scanned through it and found only definite information on 1608 (Asdrubal Bayardo). It says A. Fontes on his car, by the way.

Then there is a little chapter about cars running in South America. It mentions 5 chassis running in Argentina: 1594, 1599, 1600, 1605 (Puopolo) and 1608 (Bayardo). For Brazil, there are 4 more: 1602, 1603, 1611 and 1612.

 

In my own database, I do not find anything of use. Fojo is completely unknown. For Estefano, I don't have a Maserati, except a 250F in 1960 and Brosutti Shows 3 Maserati entries, 2 with a Chevrolet engine and one with a Studebaker engine. No further details.

Bayardo is there with a 4CLT-1592 in 1952 and then several entries with 4CLT/48-1608 until 1953. Then 3 entries in 56, 57, 58 with an unspecified Maserati with a Chevrolet engine. Presumably the same car, but no proof yet.

[FlyingSaucer]

As has been shown by the deafening silence in answer to your question, there is no-one on TNF nowadays who has the knowledge answer such questions.

 

It is very sad to see the lack of interest in South American motorsport at this time (and also in several other periods). I know that much of the racing records from the 40s, 50s and 60s in South America are a big mess, but this is just a small obstacle, which can be easily overcome. All the attention is always on Europe, the United States or Oceania - damn, even car racing in Japan in the 60s is better known than the all the Latin America motorsport at the same time.

 

A possible source for information would be "From Voiturettes to Formula 1", which deals with these cars. I haven't finished reading it (and collecting info for my database). Anyway, I quickly scanned through it and found only definite information on 1608 (Asdrubal Bayardo). It says A. Fontes on his car, by the way.

Then there is a little chapter about cars running in South America. It mentions 5 chassis running in Argentina: 1594, 1599, 1600, 1605 (Puopolo) and 1608 (Bayardo). For Brazil, there are 4 more: 1602, 1603, 1611 and 1612.

 

In my own database, I do not find anything of use. Fojo is completely unknown. For Estefano, I don't have a Maserati, except a 250F in 1960 and Brosutti Shows 3 Maserati entries, 2 with a Chevrolet engine and one with a Studebaker engine. No further details.

Bayardo is there with a 4CLT-1592 in 1952 and then several entries with 4CLT/48-1608 until 1953. Then 3 entries in 56, 57, 58 with an unspecified Maserati with a Chevrolet engine. Presumably the same car, but no proof yet.

 

Henk, regarding Bayardo's car I have no doubt that it is #1608. Many sources say that Bayardo had "his old Maserati" and that at some point between 1955 or 1956 he was the first to equip this car with an American V8 engine in South America, giving birth to Mecanica Nacional. So, I highly doubt he changed his Maserati between the beginning of the 50s and the middle of that decade - even more so with the intention of changing the car's engine. He would only do this if his car was really "old", as was the case with the #1608.

 

Brosutti's car is also indisputable, since, as I pointed out above, the book Maserati 4clt: The Remarkable History of Chassis No. 1600 presents as additional material photos of Brosutti next to #1599, confirming that the driver drove this car in the beginning from the 60s. 

 

Regarding Estéfano's vehicle, all my bets are on #1602, which was later also thought to have ended up at one time or another in Argentina. I also use a form of disposal: it is impossible that Nasif drove #1600, since at that time, the car belonged to a driver called Juan Viaggio. #1605 (ex-Puopulo) may, on the other hand, be a plausible alternative, given that Pascual had focused more on the role of mechanical tuner than pilot in the late 1950s. Furthermore, it was known that he had contacts with several young Argentine pilots at the time, such as Nasif.

 

Fojo's car is a big question mark, however. I'm talking to some Uruguayan journalists and researchers to see if anyone knows what the chassis number of this driver's car was.

Edited by FlyingSaucer, 29 July 2024 - 13:08.

[Sterzo]

It is very sad to see the lack of interest in South American motorsport at this time (and also in several other periods). I know that much of the racing records from the 40s, 50s and 60s in South America are a big mess, but this is just a small obstacle, which can be easily overcome. All the attention is always on Europe, the United States or Oceania - damn, even car racing in Japan in the 60s is better known than the all the Latin America motorsport at the same time.

Language, perhaps. English is the native language in the UK, USA, Australia and New Zealand, and widely spoken in Europe - so books and magazines could spread the word. But now is the time to fill the gaps.

[JoBo]

It is very sad to see the lack of interest in South American motorsport at this time (and also in several other periods). I know that much of the racing records from the 40s, 50s and 60s in South America are a big mess, but this is just a small obstacle, which can be easily overcome. All the attention is always on Europe, the United States or Oceania - damn, even car racing in Japan in the 60s is better known than the all the Latin America motorsport at the same time.

 

 

Brazil is a big 'black hole' for all historians. What you get from there today -if you get something!- are fuzzy photos from old magazines or newspapers. According to my knowledge no real photo archive exists in Brazil. Same situation in Venezuela, not to mention Cuba. But the situation in Argentina is much better.

Edited by JoBo, 29 July 2024 - 22:50.

[Porsche718]

I don't profess to be an expert, but my records have the Bayardo 4CLT/48 (#1608) as being sold to fellow Uruguayan driver Hector Marcial Fojo at the end of 1958.

 

I only have one outing for Fojo in February 1959 where he finished 9th at El Pinar, Montevideo.

 

Some time after that the car ended up with Andres Fernandez but I have no events recorded.

 

Fernandez had previously raced a 6CM and 4CL in the late 40's.

 

Edit: There may well have been a driver/owner or two between Fojo and Fernandez.

Edited by Porsche718, 30 July 2024 - 04:40.

[FlyingSaucer]

Brazil is a big 'black hole' for all historians. What you get from there today -if you get something!- are fuzzy photos from old magazines or newspapers. According to my knowledge no real photo archive exists in Brazil. Same situation in Venezuela, not to mention Cuba. But the situation in Argentina is much better.

 

With this point, I have to agree. I'm Brazilian and it's already difficult for me to find archives of races from this era - I imagine for those who don't know the language. Furthermore, there are no records for many of the events, which greatly limits any research. In the end, it's a big puzzle, which requires time and patience to put together. I already did one of those "puzzles" some months ago (https://forix.autosp...w/brazil49.html), but now I will go deeper.

 

So, stay tuned, because I have something interesting prepared for y'all!

 

 

I don't profess to be an expert, but my records have the Bayardo 4CLT/48 (#1608) as being sold to fellow Uruguayan driver Hector Marcial Fojo at the end of 1958.

 

I only have one outing for Fojo in February 1959 where he finished 9th at El Pinar, Montevideo.

 

Some time after that the car ended up with Andres Fernandez but I have no events recorded.

 

Fernandez had previously raced a 6CM and 4CL in the late 40's.

 

Edit: There may well have been a driver/owner or two between Fojo and Fernandez.

 

We have a problem then.

 

Because from the data I have, Bayardo was still owner of the 4CLT in the first half of 1959 - because I have info about Bayardo driving a CLT in two races in Uruguay and one in Argentina in the first months of 59. So, I think it would be smt weird to change a CLT for another CLT, just to compete in some races. And the important thing is that Fojo was present at both Uruguayan events metioned above - so, either Bayardo bought another CL or CLT between 1958/59 or Fojo's car was another.

Edited by FlyingSaucer, 31 July 2024 - 13:52.

[FlyingSaucer]

This is the newest update on the list:

 

Astrubal Bayardo (URU): Maserati 4CLT-48 (#1608)

Nasif Estefano (ARG): Maserati 4CLT (#1592)

Hector Marcial Fojo (URU): Maserati 4CLT-48 (#1594)

Luis Brosutti (ARG): Maserati 4CLT-48 (#1599)

 

The data in question was updated based on information collected by some researchers and collectors of South American motorsport, especially from Uruguay. I will disclose in a separate post (today or tomorrow) all other data collected from the 3 editions of the Triangulares. 

 

If the admins want, they can consider this topic closed.