543 replies to this topic

[Ruudbackus]

It needs to be at minimum weight at all times, even after the fuel sample has been taken.

The question is if fuel is counted in the weight, it seems from this document it is as the car wasn't even fully drained when 2.8 liters of fuel were taken out. I don't know the rules on this, what is or isn't included in the weight. And wasn't 1 litere requested for the fuel sample? so why take out 2.8 liters then?

 

And what does a liter of fuel actually weigh? Because 2.8 liters counts for 1.5 kilo apparantly.

 

Edit: and indeed is this also the case for Hamiltons car? I don't think lifting and coasting has something to do with it, if the car needs to be fully drained for weighing. 

Edited by Ruudbackus, 28 July 2024 - 16:15.

[SophieB]

The referral to the stewards:

 

[FirstnameLastname]

They come straight into the pits at Spa rather than the opportunity for ‘tyre pickup’ - might have made the difference?

[Ruudbackus]

Russell spent a lot of the race in DRS, I'm not sure if this hurts or helps fuel consumption.

I also noticed he was much faster than Lewis S1 and S3. They looked to be close on DF level so I do wonder if he was pushing the engine modes

Considering the margin of victory, 1.5kg was likely significant.

But it seems thet weight the car when fully drained so not using fuel would not mattrer. Or i am misinterpreting the fia document.

 

Edit: Removed some typos

Edited by Ruudbackus, 28 July 2024 - 16:21.

[hollowstar]

But it seems thet weight the car when fully drained so not using full woul dnot mattrer. Or i am misinterpreting the fia document.

That's correct.

[Disgrace]

Button was third before DSQ . I was asking when was the last time a winner was DSQ'd

 

Schumacher, Spa 1994? Amazing if it's been 30 years.

[NateF]

So if it’s not the fuel, as I wrongly interpreted, what the hell dud Mercedes do with the ballast?

[Bleu]

In Spa they don't do victory lap, where most drivers pick up huge chunks of rubber to the tyres...

[Ruudbackus]

In Spa they don't do victory lap, where most drivers pick up huge chunks of rubber to the tyres...

They better check the weight on all cars then! If thats the reason Im pretty sure Russell wouldn't be the only one underweight

[PayasYouRace]

Oh no! Such a shame if Russell loses this. It was a superb drive.

[NateF]

They better check the weight on all cars then! If thats the reason Im pretty sure Russell wouldn't be the only one underweight

His teammate passed the weight check as a direct comparison

[Baddoer]

They come straight into the pits at Spa rather than the opportunity for ‘tyre pickup’ - might have made the difference?

Possibly. Rubber pickup may worth 2-3 kilos. I remember Kubica at his debut in 2006 did not pick a lot of rubber and this margin DQed him of out the race.

[Ruudbackus]

His teammate passed the weight check as a direct comparison

The post race scrutiny hasn't been posted yet, where is it stated Hamilton passed the check?

[Anja]

In Spa they don't do victory lap, where most drivers pick up huge chunks of rubber to the tyres...

 

But if that's the only reason we'd probably see some DSQs every year at Spa? I mean, it's nothing new, the teams know that there's no victory lap and that they have to calculate for this. 

Edited by Anja, 28 July 2024 - 16:31.

[PayasYouRace]

The question is if fuel is counted in the weight, it seems from this document it is as the car wasn't even fully drained when 2.8 liters of fuel were taken out. I don't know the rules on this, what is or isn't included in the weight. And wasn't 1 litere requested for the fuel sample? so why take out 2.8 liters then?

And what does a liter of fuel actually weigh? Because 2.8 liters counts for 1.5 kilo apparantly.

Edit: and indeed is this also the case for Hamiltons car? I don't think lifting and coasting has something to do with it, if the car needs to be fully drained for weighing.

Petrol is about 0.7 kg/l.

Varies greatly with temperature. Remember the cool fuel controversy?

[P123]

They better check the weight on all cars then! If thats the reason Im pretty sure Russell wouldn't be the only one underweight

 

They should.  Although as we found out after USA last season they can be a bit loose on what they check. 

[SophieB]

The team are to report to the stewards at 18.10 local time.

[thefinalapex]

https://x.com/JoostN...596657191522805

 

Russells car back on the weight bridge.

[Counterbalance]

The team are to report to the stewards at 18.10 local time.

 

Do you have extra server capacity for the ensuing meltdown if George Russell is disqualified? The internet might break.

[Ruudbackus]

from a medland tweet:  Suggestion from Wolff backs up Ruth’s point about excessive tyre wear on the one-stop and the weight across four tyres potentially being a factor here

[NateF]

from a medland tweet: Suggestion from Wolff backs up Ruth’s point about excessive tyre wear on the one-stop and the weight across four tyres potentially being a factor here

What won him the race may lose it for him, just cruel!

[Anja]

What won him the race may lose it for him, just cruel!

 

Maybe they should weigh the cars with new tyres or something like that, if they introduce such a thing you heard it here first 

 

But it would be weird. It's hardly the first time someone pushed tyre wear to the limit and I don't remember a single time it caused problems with the weight. 

Edited by Anja, 28 July 2024 - 16:36.

[frosty125]

The referral to the stewards:

Did Mercedes try to cover up that they were underweight by not fully removing the fuel before it was weighed? They just removed enough to the minimum weight?

[Nemo1965]

This would be so shite for Russell. One of the most deserved wins of the last few years (because of the gamble he took, it was his strategic call)

By the way: Verstappen is going to win this championship just the way I wished for him to happen: by also have to drive tactically.

Edited by Nemo1965, 28 July 2024 - 16:36.

[Muppetmad]

Sounds just like Kubica in Hungary 2006, i.e. excessive tyre wear leading to disqualification.

[EvilPhil II]

Under weight is under weight

[Disgrace]

Did Mercedes try to cover up that they were underweight by not fully removing the fuel before it was weighed? They just removed enough to the minimum weight?

 

It sure reads like it. Perhaps they'll get done for intent, even if the car is somehow legal with another set of tyres attached.

[ANF]

My goodness. I was just thinking how nice it was to have an exciting race without any stupid incidents and investigations.

[NateF]

It sure reads like it. Perhaps they'll get done for intent, even if the car is somehow legal with another set of tyres attached.

Honestly the iffiest part of it all

[Coral]

It sure reads like it. Perhaps they'll get done for intent, even if the car is somehow legal with another set of tyres attached.

If Mercedes did indeed do that then it's pretty shocking

[PayasYouRace]

I'm surprised you'd wear 1.5 kg of rubber off a set of tyres over as stint. Even more surprised that tyre wear isn't accounted for when weighing the cars. Like if you damage a wing and you finish with a big chunk missing, you won't be disqualified for being underweight because that bit of bodywork is missing. You'd be weighed as if it was still there.

[MortenF1]

Yes, it’s very problematic that they OK’ed the car as drained of fuel when it wasn’t.

[DW46]

I’d be disappointed if they tried to pull the wool over the stewards eyes. Thats dodge.

[Afterburner]

Amazing drive by Russell, right out of the Scott Dixon playbook. Would be a shame if it ends in a DQ.

[Huffer]

If Mercedes did indeed do that then it's pretty shocking

 

Not really. It's sort of a given that a team is going to do all they can to try and protect the team/driver win & points.

[SophieB]

@ChrisMedlandF1

Expecting a decision on Russell in the next 10 minutes or so. Not exactly a long deliberation… #F1 #BelgianGP

[Gravelngrass]

from a medland tweet: Suggestion from Wolff backs up Ruth’s point about excessive tyre wear on the one-stop and the weight across four tyres potentially being a factor here

Can tyre shreds weigh 1.5 Kgs?

[Heyli]

Not really. It's sort of a given that a team is going to do all they can to try and protect the team/driver win & points.

i thought you were more outspoken about Teams trying to Cheat?

[P123]

I'm surprised you'd wear 1.5 kg of rubber off a set of tyres over as stint. Even more surprised that tyre wear isn't accounted for when weighing the cars. Like if you damage a wing and you finish with a big chunk missing, you won't be disqualified for being underweight because that bit of bodywork is missing. You'd be weighed as if it was still there.

 

How much does each tyre weigh though?  Surely possible across all four tyres.  They took them much longer than expected.  A cruel irony if that also resulted in him being underweight. 

[gillesfan76]

So they drained 2.8 litres of fuel, but the weight dropped by only 1.5 kg? I thought fuel density was roughly 800 kg/m3, so would have expected 2,2 kg reduction in weight.

[PayasYouRace]

As an aside, if Mercedes are running below the weight limit they could actually paint (or wrap) the whole car silver and not have the bare carbon.

[PayasYouRace]

How much does each tyre weigh though?  Surely possible across all four tyres.  They took them much longer than expected.  A cruel irony if that also resulted in him being underweight. 

 

The entire wheel weighs 9-11 kg.

[Boxerevo]

Doing some maths, 400g for each tyre... but his pace was still very good S1 and S3.

 

Like i asked before, Mercedes maybe gambled that his car would't get inspected.

[SilverArrow31]

The entire wheel weighs 9-11 kg.

Thats so light when you compare it to a 10kg dumbell... it still amazes me how light they get these things.

[Ruudbackus]

Doing some maths, 400g for each tyre... but his pace was still very good S1 and S3.

 

Like i asked before, Mercedes maybe gambled that his car would't get inspected.

The podium finishers are always checked, aren't they?

Edited by Ruudbackus, 28 July 2024 - 16:51.

[SophieB]

@AlexBrundle

Extra mass loss of tyre from the one stopper for @MercedesAMGF1 of Russell? hard to believe it’s 1.5kg!

No inlap here to pickup the rubber though.

Merc weighed the car with some fuel in it by mistake is theory 2 

That’s a long way out on weight for an F1 team!

[Boxerevo]

And why the team can't put a new plank to test the car but tyres are ok? Strange exception.

[PayasYouRace]

Thats so light when you compare it to a 10kg dumbell... it still amazes me how light they get these things.

 

In fairness, a lot of that volume is air.

[SilverArrow31]

@AlexBrundle
Extra mass loss of tyre from the one stopper for @MercedesAMGF1 of Russell? hard to believe it’s 1.5kg!
No inlap here to pickup the rubber though.
Merc weighed the car with some fuel in it by mistake is theory 2
That’s a long way out on weight for an F1 team!

That was no mistake... I'd put money on it... and why I think this wont end today with just a DQ for George.

Edited by SilverArrow31, 28 July 2024 - 16:53.

[SparkPlug86]

So they drained 2.8 litres of fuel, but the weight dropped by only 1.5 kg? I thought fuel density was roughly 800 kg/m3, so would have expected 2,2 kg reduction in weight.

 

I think they put some back in, it's the "dry weight" of the car... but I think the tank has to have a small amount left