65 replies to this topic

[eibyyz]

Sergio's right up there, but I'd have to say Lole Reutemann, who pithed away a WDC from pole in the last race of the season. 

[Risil]

What is a headcase exactly?

[PayasYouRace]

This isn’t about crash helmet sizes?

[eibyyz]

What is a headcase exactly?

 

A lot of definitions suggest that it's a stupid person, I prefer it to typify someone who overanalyzes to the point of indecision or dithering.  A feedback loop, freezing, shellshocked. 

[Dara]

The Head Kees must be Verstappen since he's Dutch right ?

[Secretariat]

A lot of definitions suggest that it's a stupid person, I prefer it to typify someone who overanalyzes to the point of indecision or dithering.  A feedback loop, freezing, shellshocked. 

Using your definitions these things come and go and are only a snapshot in time thus difficult to put a label on a driver for such things. It does not take into account things that might be out of their control...such as the team's car development path. Modern day examples are Perez as you point out, but also this definition could apply to Ricciardo during his McLaren days...particular when you look at the efforts and statements he made in regard to his struggles. However, today I do not think you will find many that would describe Ricciardo as a "headcase". Some might say slow, but not a headcase.

 

Is Norris? I suppose some people can make an argument for it, while others can simply say it a matter of driver development and experience. Both of which will probably have elements of truth and validity to them.

[F1matt]

It is hard to understand what it feels like unless you can stand in their shoes, after the British GP Lewis Hamilton said he started to doubt himself until he won, hard to imagine a man who has achieved so much could start to doubt his ability but as humans we are all flawed.

[Burai]

It is hard to understand what it feels like unless you can stand in their shoes, after the British GP Lewis Hamilton said he started to doubt himself until he won, hard to imagine a man who has achieved so much could start to doubt his ability but as humans we are all flawed.

 

Perhaps a symptom of being at a dominant team for so long. When you have to compromise your driving to make a difficult package work, having known nothing but easy, compliant cars, it can feel like you're trying twice as hard for a fraction of the reward. And I can imagine it got ever more demoralising as Mercedes were certain they were on the right track and Russell was getting more out of the car.

[Gravelngrass]

If I go by the first definition I found of a “mentally ill or unstable person”, the current “strategic consultant” at Alpine…

[PlatenGlass]

If Perez counts, then Albon and Gasly when they were at Red Bull too. But maybe none of them are headcases.

[Nathan]

A lot of definitions suggest that it's a stupid person, I prefer it to typify someone who overanalyzes to the point of indecision or dithering.  A feedback loop, freezing, shellshocked. 

 

[jonpollak]

Santucci.

Jp

[pacificquay]

One of the most offensive threads and thread titles I’ve seen in many years on this forum.

 

None of us are qualified to judge without having had sessions with the patient.

[MaxisOne]

One of the most offensive threads and thread titles I’ve seen in many years on this forum.

 

None of us are qualified to judge without having had sessions with the patient.

Almost had me

[pacificquay]

Sorry I don’t follow you.

 

The idea of ascribing someone’s sporting situation to their mental state from a totally unqualified position is abhorrent 

[MaxisOne]

Sorry I don’t follow you.

 

The idea of ascribing someone’s sporting situation to their mental state from a totally unqualified position is abhorrent 

Well i found it funny .. but if you didnt find it amusing then .. oh well

 

Carry on with the sanctimony.

Edited by MaxisOne, 29 July 2024 - 20:15.

[WonderWoman61]

In this day and age, the Red Bull drivers.

[IrvTheSwerve]

A ‘headcase’ to me means someone who’s a bit of a nutter, in the James Hunt or Nelson Piquet sense.

[1player]

I think this peculiar/dialectal use of 'headcase' makes this thread more confusing than it has to be.

 

I think OP just wants to discuss which driver started doubting themselves to the point of rapidly crashing from the high point of their career. The problem is that we cannot know what's going on in their head, so we cannot tell if their loss of performance is due to self-doubt, conflict within the team, heartbreak, mental issues, loss of motivation or the sudden desire to quit motor-racing to pursue a career in cheesemaking.

Edited by 1player, 30 July 2024 - 09:26.

[taran]

It is not a simple black and white situation and not down to having mental fortitude or not. Often outside factors play a role, and often a bigger role than many people realise.

 

Take Damon Hill. You could argue he wasn't as mentally robust as a top driver should be but he was also never treated as a #1 driver. He first lucked (very undeservedly) in a competitive Williams and then was catapulted into the #1 role at Williams after Senna's death. But he hadn't earned it on merit and people at Williams doubted his abilities as a result. Certainly when Schumacher in a Benetton was beating the mighty Williams. So Hill never had the full support other top drivers enjoy. I am sure that had an impact on his psyche.

 

Vettel is another driver who had a bad spell. From a valued and brilliant driver at Red Bull, he went to a Ferrari that ignored all his suggestions and then managed to implode under relentless Mercedes pressure in 2017 and 2018. I think the Vettel mistakes were the result of Vettel desperately trying to carry the team and it broke him.

 

Someone mentioned Reutemann. He felt he didn't have the support of his team in 1981, let alone his teammate at the final race. As usual, Frank Williams mismanaged the situation and Reutemann cracked.

 

These things are often situational. Perez is not a star driver but he is much better than he is showing at Red Bull most of the time. The result of unending pressure, a difficult car not meshing with his preferred driving style and mistakes due to desperation all causing a death spiral. Yet he was the best midfield driver of the 2010s.

[PlatenGlass]

Sorry I don’t follow you.

The idea of ascribing someone’s sporting situation to their mental state from a totally unqualified position is abhorrent

The second part of your post read as a joke.

[absinthedude]

I've never heard "headcase" mean anything other than someone who is mentally ill and unstable. Similar to nutcase or lunatic. 

 

honestly I don't feel comfortable with the thread title either and OP seems to be using a word which doesn't mean what he thinks it means. perhaps change the premise to "Drivers who overthink" ?

[F1matt]

I've never heard "headcase" mean anything other than someone who is mentally ill and unstable. Similar to nutcase or lunatic. 

 

honestly I don't feel comfortable with the thread title either and OP seems to be using a word which doesn't mean what he thinks it means. perhaps change the premise to "Drivers who overthink" ?

 

How about drivers who overthink or underthink? Or even Drivers who are complicated....

[Paahto]

A ‘headcase’ to me means someone who’s a bit of a nutter, in the James Hunt or Nelson Piquet sense.

 

This is exactly how I understand the term as well. It's used all the time here in Ireland to describe someone who either (a) is eccentric and has unusual quirks to their personality and/or (b) has a tendency to lose their temper or act irrationally in circumstances. It could also be someone prone to violent physical outbursts or acts in risky ways seemingly unconcerned for their own well-being or the well-being of others. It doesn't NECESSARILY mean they have a certified mental disorder. Nor does the moniker necessarily refer to a negative trait. It can be a badge of honour for some. A lot of my old drinking buddies could be considered "headcases" but there was no badness in them.

 

That said, the term might translate differently elsewhere as has been demonstrated.

[Paahto]

Just to add, if my own understanding of the definition is what the OP was referring to then drivers such as Bertrand Gachot, Anthony Reid, Tommy Byrne and, at times, Ayrton Senna (Japan 1993) could fit the bill. Piquet and Hunt, as aforementioned, are definitely in that category too. Anybody who has the capacity to physically assault another driver after an accident probably signs themselves into the category. It's that kind of mentality. Who was it in the late 80s BTCC that had a punch-up...Frank Sytner?

[IrvTheSwerve]

‘Weak-minded’ might be a better term.

[IrvTheSwerve]

This is exactly how I understand the term as well. It's used all the time here in Ireland to describe someone who either (a) is eccentric and has unusual quirks to their personality and/or (b) has a tendency to lose their temper or act irrationally in circumstances. It could also be someone prone to violent physical outbursts or acts in risky ways seemingly unconcerned for their own well-being or the well-being of others. It doesn't NECESSARILY mean they have a certified mental disorder. Nor does the moniker necessarily refer to a negative trait. It can be a badge of honour for some. A lot of my old drinking buddies could be considered "headcases" but there was no badness in them.

 

That said, the term might translate differently elsewhere as has been demonstrated.

 

Maybe it’s a UK/Ireland thing. ‘Headcase’ certainly isn’t meant as medical term here, not even necessarily derogatory, just that the person loves a bit of a crazy life, always up for banter, etc.

[messy]

A ‘headcase’ to me means someone who’s a bit of a nutter, in the James Hunt or Nelson Piquet sense.

Yeah this is how I take it too, so my first thoughts were Dan Ticktum and people like that. Didn’t Mazepin punch Callum Ilott too? Montoya I think also had rep for being very aggressive behind the scenes and not particularly good to work with. MotoGP also has Aleix Espargaró, who has a long-standing reputation for emotional outbursts and twatted Franco Morbidelli on the bike last season. In this day and age I don’t think drivers get away with behaving badly as much as they used to, which is good I think. Polished PR is much more important. Someone who’s a bit sweary or emotional on the radio (hi Yuki) wouldn’t have stood out a few years ago. Hadjar also seems a bit emotional in F2.

So I don’t think ‘headcase’ is the right term for the OP really, certainly not the way to describe someone who has mental health issues. Damon Hill’s book is a great read about how mental health can come into play in such a pressured and high stakes profession and the way he dealt with that and is so open about it in hindsight is inspiring. Lando Norris has also been very open and honest about his doubts and I guess ‘imposter syndrome’ when he came into F1.

[absinthedude]

Maybe it’s a UK/Ireland thing. ‘Headcase’ certainly isn’t meant as medical term here, not even necessarily derogatory, just that the person loves a bit of a crazy life, always up for banter, etc.

 

American too, if Merriam Webster is to be believed. "A foolish or eccentric person, someone who is mentally unsound". They also offer "psychopath", "Lunatic"  and "Maniac" as synonyms. . 

 

It's not a medical term by any stretch. But it is generally understood to mean someone who is unstable. And defined in various dictionaries (British and American) as "unstable or mentally ill". It's most commonly associated with people who get violent for little or no valid reason.....one might use the word to describe James Hunt or Nelson Piquet, given their documented violent outbursts. Though as it is considered derogatory, I personally wouldn't choose to use it. 

[Paahto]

In this day and age I don’t think drivers get away with behaving badly as much as they used to, which is good I think. Polished PR is much more important. Someone who’s a bit sweary or emotional on the radio (hi Yuki) wouldn’t have stood out a few years ago. 

 

Yes, we're definitely living in different times. When it was just the television cameras, you could probably afford more looseness. Now everything is monitored by everybody and immediately disseminated by everybody. Plus, society has come to see certain "headcase" moves as universally unsavoury (eg physical violence) rather than potentially justified depending on the circumstances.

 

Of course, there are still nutters out there. They just can't explode so openly any more. I think Ocon would probably have shown a few interesting colours if he was racing in 2004 instead of 2024. 

[Paahto]

Oh...sorry...how on earth can we forget Adrian Sutil?! Now that's a headcase for you. And Raikkonen when he was full of drink could be completely unpredictable, especially earlier in his carrer.

[taran]

American too, if Merriam Webster is to be believed. "A foolish or eccentric person, someone who is mentally unsound". They also offer "psychopath", "Lunatic"  and "Maniac" as synonyms. . 

 

It's not a medical term by any stretch. But it is generally understood to mean someone who is unstable. And defined in various dictionaries (British and American) as "unstable or mentally ill". It's most commonly associated with people who get violent for little or no valid reason.....one might use the word to describe James Hunt or Nelson Piquet, given their documented violent outbursts. Though as it is considered derogatory, I personally wouldn't choose to use it. 

Why is Nelson Piquet mentioned here? He had one half-hearted punch up after being taken out by a backmarker when leading a race. Piquet was one of the most cerebral drivers in F1, quite good at knowing when to fight or when to pick up points and quite adapt at psychological warfare against rivals, he wasn't a hothead.

 

Are we calling Verstappen a headcase too, since he had his clash with Ocon in remarkably similar circumstances?

Edited by taran, 30 July 2024 - 13:26.

[Paahto]

 

 

Are we calling Verstappen a headcase too, since he had his clash with Ocon in remarkably similar circumstances?

 

Yes, I would almost put Verstappen in that category as well personally.

[Paahto]

Although it's worth bearing in mind the difference between a "full-on headcase" and "a bit of a headcase". There's a sort of sliding scale thing going on. So it's not as black and white as you make it out to be I'm afraid.

[IrvTheSwerve]

Although it's worth bearing in mind the difference between a "full-on headcase" and "a bit of a headcase". There's a sort of sliding scale thing going on. So it's not as black and white as you make it out to be I'm afraid.

 

[PlatenGlass]

If we're talking about drivers who underperformed for psychological reasons then a few possible candidates spring to mind:

Frentzen at Williams
Fisichella at Renault
Piquet Jr at Renault
Massa at Ferrari (alongside Alonso)
Kovalainen at McLaren
Trulli on Sundays
Schumacher at final-round deciders
Hakkinen at random weekends or random strings of weekends

Edited by PlatenGlass, 30 July 2024 - 15:36.

[danmills]

Headcase means absolute nutjob crazy pyscho where I'm from in the UK.

[TMC44]

Headcase often used in football, normally used for someone who took players out with his tackles. Or would be in your face if you did it to him. 

Never heard it used to describe someone with mental issues.

[messy]

If we're talking about drivers who underperformed for psychological reasons then a few possible candidates spring to mind:
Frentzen at Williams
Fisichella at Renault
Piquet Jr at Renault
Massa at Ferrari (alongside Alonso)
Kovalainen at McLaren
Trulli on Sundays
Schumacher at final-round deciders
Hakkinen at random weekends or random strings of weekends

Not Fisi. I've read a few interviews with him about those Renault years and he is/was happy as anything with them, describing 2005/06 as his most enjoyable years in F1. He was perfectly content to be Alonso's #2, probably far too much so.

[KLF1F]

Paul Tracy

Maybe Maldonado, I seem to recall him squeezing others into the wall during practice sessions.

[PlatenGlass]

Not Fisi. I've read a few interviews with him about those Renault years and he is/was happy as anything with them, describing 2005/06 as his most enjoyable years in F1. He was perfectly content to be Alonso's #2, probably far too much so.

Interesting. Maybe it was him in general rather than at Renault specifically. Possibly he couldn't deal very well being near the front.

[messy]

Yeah, in his earlier years especially he used to immediately lose the plot the second he got a stiff of the lead. He lost his pace looking in his mirrors at Hockenheim '97 and Canada '98, threw it off at Nurburgring '99, clipped the wall and spun when catching Hakkinen in Monaco '98. It was a definite theme.

[ANF]

Headcase often used in football, normally used for someone who took players out with his tackles. Or would be in your face if you did it to him. 
Never heard it used to describe someone with mental issues.

I looked it up.

Paperback Oxford English Dictionary:
informal a mentally unstable person

Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary:
a person who behaves strangely or who is very silly or violent

Collins English Dictionary:
1. a person who is aggressive and emotionally unstable
2. offensive a person who has a mental illness

Wiktionary:
A mentally unbalanced, unpredictable person, especially one who displays aggressive behavior.

Green's Dictionary of Slang:
1. an eccentric, bizarre person.
2. someone undergoing, or in need of, psychiatric treatment.
3. a violent person, a psychotic, also attrib.
4. a state of psychosis.
5. a clever person, or one who believes themselves to be so.

[TMC44]

Bit of a broad church. I can think of a few footballers who fit in with the Cambridge Advanced Learners Dictionary version.

Thanks for taking the time  to look it up and post.

[noriaki]

Interesting. Maybe it was him in general rather than at Renault specifically. Possibly he couldn't deal very well being near the front.

 

What I think with Fisi, it wasn't underperforming at Renault but just a case of him being a decent but not great driver, who simply got everything together a couple of times a season (often at Montreal and/or Spa). When he had midgrid cars, they might have masked that for the rest of the season, he often just lulled in the midfield doing not much of note.

 

At Renault, he still retained his bi-annual peaks, but the rest of the time he got publicly exposed alongside Alonso because in a top car all the eyes are immediately on you when you qualify a couple of places below the expectations.

[Paahto]

Maybe Maldonado, I seem to recall him squeezing others into the wall during practice sessions.

 

Yes, Maldonado fits the bill for me too. 

[Rob G]

If you're referring to drivers who beat themselves up and struggle when things are going badly, AJ Allmendinger comes to mind.

[DW46]

Marc Marquez.

[GreenMachine]

Lando.

[maximilian]

Vettel was a petulant headcase frequently.