18 replies to this topic

[Barttore]

from https://www.fia.com/...library-project

"The e-library is only accessible to FIA Member Clubs at the moment. It will be accessible to the general public in 2024, when the FIA celebrates its 120th anniversary."

 

Does anybody here know from when the FIA will be accessible to the general public?

 

Edited by Barttore, 29 July 2024 - 18:07.

[DCapps]

Given that the date in question was 20 June 2024 (as in a month ago...), one might suggest that usual, the FIA (a.k.a., the Fumbling Idiots Association) is as inept (as kind a word as might be possible) as ever...

[DCapps]

Some things to look for, beginning with (using English text references) Article 249, note 3, of the "International Racing Code" in effect for the 1963 season, which names the "Classic Events" as determined by the CSI/FIA.

Also, apparently beginning with the 1949 Autumn Congress of the CSI/FIA, a memo was issued with the rules in effect for the following season's Championnat du Monde des Conducteurs (with a separate memo the Constructor's Cup added beginning with the 1958 season), as well as another memo for the current Formule Internationale No. 1. All being separate documents until the current championship happened with the 1981 season; the Yellow Books are a big help here, especially after a few years beginning in the early-1970s.

 

Homework assignment for someone. I thought I had the Sporting Code for the 1963 season but cannot find it for love or money in my files.

[a_tifoosi]

Some things to look for, beginning with (using English text references) Article 249, note 3, of the "International Racing Code" in effect for the 1963 season, which names the "Classic Events" as determined by the CSI/FIA.

Also, apparently beginning with the 1949 Autumn Congress of the CSI/FIA, a memo was issued with the rules in effect for the following season's Championnat du Monde des Conducteurs (with a separate memo the Constructor's Cup added beginning with the 1958 season), as well as another memo for the current Formule Internationale No. 1. All being separate documents until the current championship happened with the 1981 season; the Yellow Books are a big help here, especially after a few years beginning in the early-1970s.

 

Homework assignment for someone. I thought I had the Sporting Code for the 1963 season but cannot find it for love or money in my files.

 

In the FIA's e-library I can only find some meeting minutes (procès verbal) from the meeting held by the CSI on the 7th of October 1949 in Paris. As for the Championnat du Monde des Conducteurs of 1950, the only reference is as follows:

 

RÈGLEMENT D'UN CHAMPIONNAT DU MONDE DES CONDUCTEURS AUTOMOBILES

 

Après avoir pris connaissance du règlement appliqué par la FIM pour le Championnat du Monde des Conducteurs automobiles, la CSI décide d'aporter une méthode de classement analogue, notamment pour le barème des points attribués aux concurrents.

 

Ce barème sera le suivant:

• Au concurrent classé 1er: 8 points
• Au concurrent classé 2ème: 6 points
• Au concurrent classé 3ème: 4 points
• Au concurrent classé 4ème: 3 points
• Au concurrent classé 5ème: 2 points
• Au concurrent classé ou non ayant effectué le meilleur tour: 1 point

 

Le conducteur Champion du Monde 1950 recevra la Coupe du Championnat ainsi qu'un diplôme et une médaille de la FIA.

 

Enfin, les épreuves comptant pour le Championnat du Monde, dites "Grandes Épreuves", sont les suivantes:

• Grand Prix d'Europe (Great Britain): 13 mai 1950
• Grand Prix de Monaco: 21 mai 1950
• Indianapolis 500 Miles Intern. Sweepstakes: 30 mai 1950
• Grand Prix de Suisse: 4 juin 1950
• Grand Prix de Belgique: 18 juin 1950
• Grand Prix de l'ACF (France): 2 juil. 1950
• Grand Prix d'Italie: 3 sept. 1950

 

M. NOGHES (Monaco) présentera l'année prochaine un projet de Championnat du Monde de Tourisme applicable en 1951.

 

This is all the information I have been able to find.

[DCapps]

Thank you for the original French text from that 7 October 1949 CSI meeting, very much appreciated to say the least.

It tracks with what I had scrounged earlier in English, but nice to see it in French.

Part of the wording also mimics that of what Garnier provides in the 1963 English text.

 

I hope that someday others will finally have access to FIA/CSI archival material to allow the establishment of the documentary basis for writing about this past.

[DCapps]

In the FIA's e-library I can only find some meeting minutes (procès verbal) from the meeting held by the CSI on the 7th of October 1949 in Paris. As for the Championnat du Monde des Conducteurs of 1950, the only reference is as follows:

 

RÈGLEMENT D'UN CHAMPIONNAT DU MONDE DES CONDUCTEURS AUTOMOBILES

 

Après avoir pris connaissance du règlement appliqué par la FIM pour le Championnat du Monde des Conducteurs automobiles, la CSI décide d'aporter une méthode de classement analogue, notamment pour le barème des points attribués aux concurrents.

 

Ce barème sera le suivant:

• Au concurrent classé 1er: 8 points
• Au concurrent classé 2ème: 6 points
• Au concurrent classé 3ème: 4 points
• Au concurrent classé 4ème: 3 points
• Au concurrent classé 5ème: 2 points
• Au concurrent classé ou non ayant effectué le meilleur tour: 1 point

 

Le conducteur Champion du Monde 1950 recevra la Coupe du Championnat ainsi qu'un diplôme et une médaille de la FIA.

 

Enfin, les épreuves comptant pour le Championnat du Monde, dites "Grandes Épreuves", sont les suivantes:

• Grand Prix d'Europe (Great Britain): 13 mai 1950
• Grand Prix de Monaco: 21 mai 1950
• Indianapolis 500 Miles Intern. Sweepstakes: 30 mai 1950
• Grand Prix de Suisse: 4 juin 1950
• Grand Prix de Belgique: 18 juin 1950
• Grand Prix de l'ACF (France): 2 juil. 1950
• Grand Prix d'Italie: 3 sept. 1950

 

M. NOGHES (Monaco) présentera l'année prochaine un projet de Championnat du Monde de Tourisme applicable en 1951.

 

This is all the information I have been able to find.

 

The e-library is only accessible to FIA Member Clubs at the moment. It will be accessible to the general public in 2024, when the FIA celebrates its 120th anniversary. 

 

Last I checked, June 2024 has come and gone, so where is the access?

[a_tifoosi]

Last March I got in contact with the FIA asking whether, as announced, it'd be accessible to the general public by 2024. By late April I got an answer from the e-library's curator with a username and password.

 

So I'd suggest getting in contact with the FIA to get further information / updates.

Edited by a_tifoosi, 23 August 2024 - 08:00.

[DCapps]

Last March I got in contact with the FIA asking whether, as announced, it'd be accessible to the general public by 2024. By late April I got an answer from the e-library's curator with a username and password.

 

So I'd suggest getting in contact with the FIA to get further information / updates.

 

Giving it a shot to see what happens.

[ensign14]

• Au concurrent classé ou non ayant effectué le meilleur tour: 1 point

 

Hello.  What's this?

[Vitesse2]

Hello.  What's this?

A rejected proposal, presumably. There would have been at least one more CSI meeting - later in 1949 and/or in February or March 1950 - which would have rubber-stamped it after comments from member clubs. Someone no doubt remembered how Raymond Sommer had won the 1939 French Championship simply by taking part in every round but not actually winning a race ...

 

https://8w.forix.com/fc1939.html

[DCapps]

Hello.  What's this?

 

 

A rejected proposal, presumably. There would have been at least one more CSI meeting - later in 1949 and/or in February or March 1950 - which would have rubber-stamped it after comments from member clubs. Someone no doubt remembered how Raymond Sommer had won the 1939 French Championship simply by taking part in every round but not actually winning a race ...

 

https://8w.forix.com/fc1939.html

 

Yep, I meant to say something earlier about that, but I think Richard nails it... I am almost certain that something was done in a meeting during the March timeframe; somewhere, probably one of the French sporting tabloids, I have a hazy recall of there being a CSI meeting with something done regarding the new championship.

If it is somewhere in my files, I haven't found it yet.

[a_tifoosi]

Hello.  What's this?

 

I don't get your question. Au concurrent classé ou non ayant effectué le meilleur tour: 1 point. A single (1) point was given to the driver that set the fastest lap, whether it had or had not finished the race.

 

As I understand, that rule was maintained: in Italy '50 Fangio got 1 point for the fastest lap despite having retired.

 

 

[Vitesse2]

Au concurrent classé ou non ayant effectué le meilleur tour: 1 point.

 

To a classified finisher who did not make the fastest lap: 1 point.

 

In other words - any classified finisher also received a point. This would have caused difficulties due to the different rules employed by race organisers. A long time since I looked at this, but IIRC some said they had to complete 90% of race distance, some 80%, maybe even 75%. I think Monaco said anyone still running at the end was a classified finisher? And Indianapolis would be a whole other ball game.

 

The percentage rule was unified at some point in the early 1970s, IIRC.

[Vitesse2]

For example: in the 1951 Swiss GP, Guy Mairesse was classified 14th, having only completed 31 of 42 laps, whereas Peter Whitehead, who had crashed after completing 36, was not classified.

 

See also Claes (German GP 1951), Rol (Italian GP 1951), Brown (British GP 1952 - classified 22nd on 69 of 85 laps) etc etc

[Tim Murray]

I reckon a couple of commas might help:

Au concurrent, classé ou non, ayant effectué le meilleur tour: 1 point.

Thus: any runner, classified or not, making the fastest lap gets a point.

[ensign14]

Had to cross the line after the winner, hence drivers in ailing cars parking up before the finishing line and pushing over when the flag was waved at the winner (Salvadori, Britain 1957, was one). 

 

Point for finishing was vaguely analogous to some of the pre-war points systems which rewarded taking part and making certain milestone distances.

[a_tifoosi]

I reckon a couple of commas might help:

Au concurrent, classé ou non, ayant effectué le meilleur tour: 1 point.

Thus: any runner, classified or not, making the fastest lap gets a point.

Exactly, it is just a matter of commas.

L'Équipe, 25 February 1950: 1 point enfin au conducteur classé ou non, qui aura effectué le meilleur tour. This wording, despite still missing a comma (IMHO) after 'conducteur', may be more clear.

[Barttore]

I tried to get contact with the FIA to get further information / updates, but no reply.

Any others with better luck or updates?

[FlyingSaucer]

I tried to get contact with the FIA to get further information / updates, but no reply.

Any others with better luck or updates?

 

Good luck trying to get in touch with them.

 

A few months ago I asked for information about one of their training courses (I thonk it was about the development of grassroots motorsport) and I'm still waiting for the answer. 

 

I think that after the purge that the FIA ​​has undergone in this last year, all emails are going to a void.

 

So, getting no answer is kind of what you expect from them now...