41 replies to this topic

[Nathan]

I just watched the precision of the rear jack man at McLaren and thought 'handling something like that with such precision, that's some skills'.  And of course there is the bravery of any front jackman.  I've always thought hitting a moving nut in one go impressive. The NASCAR guys doing 5 in a row was something else to watch.  NHRA guys do full rebuilds between runs.  Maybe more to the garage end, but I just wanted to mention that    

 

Would you want to do one of these jobs? Ever try it on a demonstration setup?

[Heyli]

Front jack is definitely the one that requires the most bravery. I would flinch.

I think the guy who has to put the new wheel in place is a very difficult one. You have to be very precise, and a wheel is quite heavy!

I think I maybe could be one of the guy's leaning on the car to keep it in place. Not sure what that role is called though, human ballast?

[SenorSjon]

The one at Williams having to rebuild cars for the nth time this season.

[Afterburner]

Outside tyre changers at any IndyCar race during yellow pit stops. The margins between them and the swarm are ridiculously thin at the best of times.

[Sterzo]

Would you want to do one of these jobs? Ever try it on a demonstration setup?

I was hoping you wouldn't ask. On a business management course at Brands Hatch, one of the activities involved someone pushing an engine-less Formula First into the "pits", while four of us changed the wheels with hand tools. My team-mate on my side of the car was visually impaired. He finished his wheel several seconds before me.

 

Which do I think is the hardest position? All of them.

 

Edit PS: We cunningly chose the smallest, lightest member of our team to be the "driver". She couldn't see out. As we walked away, a plaintive voice from the cockpit reminded us we'd left her in there.

Edited by Sterzo, 26 August 2024 - 15:57.

[Disgrace]

Refueller, on the dole since 2010.

[Ev0d3vil]

Front jack man for sure.

[1player]

Front jackman just needs to be fearless. But execution wise, it's the guys putting the wheels on. They're the ones that make it a good stop or not n

[Autodromo]

Honestly I think it would be kind of fun being the front jackman, but the job I would suck most at is the person who decides when the stop is complete and clicks the light to green letting the driver go.  I am sure I would screw that up often.

[arrysen]

I was a front jack man in F1 back in the late 80s & early 90s. We were still using manual jacks then, not the pneumatic ones they use now. The job was to stop the car on its marks us much as possible, so sometimes getting a hit if the driver overshot or had brake problems. Then of course lift the nose, then it was my call to be sure that all four corners were done, then drop the car and get out of the way (we didn't have the cantilevered jacks they use now either - had to move quickly and hope some dumb cameraman or photographer hadn't got too close (knocked a few of them fair on their arse stepping back fast & hard to release the car over the years). The stop/go sign man then let the car go when the coast was clear - most times that was at the same time as I dropped the car. Back then we'd typically do a tyre stop in 5 seconds or just under.

 

No speed limits in pit lane back then - have a look at footage from back then of how hard the cars came in and left - really scary when compared to today, plus the pit lanes were more compact relatively (more cars) and there were a lot more people allowed in the lane back then.

 

In my view, whilst there is some truth about my role from back then being fearless (& requiring genuine strength & agility) I always considered all the roles to be pretty much equally the hardest, but each in their own way. My pal on the rear jack for example, had to step in behind the car, get the jack onto the jacking points and get the heavy end of the car in the air before the wheel guys started removing the wheels (the guns were on the nuts and hitting whilst the car was still on the ground). The 3 on each wheel each had a different job but none was easier or harder than the other in my view. The wheel guys nearest the fast lane were the ones in the most danger from other cars. 

 

Took a genuine team, a whole lot of focus and practice, meticulous maintenance of the gear etc. Great to be part of and very easy to muck it up (which was rare but did happen) but it is amazing how much it all happens in slow motion when you're doing it all the time.

[jonpollak]

Outside tyre changers at any IndyCar race during yellow pit stops. The margins between them and the swarm are ridiculously thin at the best of times.

I’m with arrysen

Outside front is usually the crew chief as is the case with the 12 crew and Trevor LeCasse.

As Steve Challis at Players Forsythe used to say.
“Who’s turn is it in the barrel today?”

Jp

Edited by jonpollak, 26 August 2024 - 19:54.

[jcbc3]

I would think it was the rear outer tire changer that was in most danger?

 

When the car is stationary and the car in the pit ahead comes in, I can se that the front changer is in danger. But the incoming driver sees him and is most often 'in control' of his car. But when the car behind your car leave the pits it's most often sliding in a fog of tire smoke and less in control.

 

Just my musings. Prove me wrong.

[jonpollak]

Prove you wrong?
Ok.

You’re an internet moderator who has never worked on a race team .

Tell me if you have even been in a hot pit?

Jp

[Autodromo]

I would think it was the rear outer tire changer that was in most danger?

 

When the car is stationary and the car in the pit ahead comes in, I can se that the front changer is in danger. But the incoming driver sees him and is most often 'in control' of his car. But when the car behind your car leave the pits it's most often sliding in a fog of tire smoke and less in control.

 

Just my musings. Prove me wrong.

Just to note that in F1 the pit boxes are skewed so the REAR tire changer is closest to a departing car from behind and probably equally exposed as the front tire changer to a car entering the box ahead.  

[jcbc3]

Prove you wrong?
Ok.

You’re an internet moderator who has never worked on a race team .

Tell me if you have even been in a hot pit?

Jp

 

So you couldn't. Wouldn't it have been easier just to say that?

[paulb]

I would think it was the rear outer tire changer that was in most danger?

 

When the car is stationary and the car in the pit ahead comes in, I can se that the front changer is in danger. But the incoming driver sees him and is most often 'in control' of his car. But when the car behind your car leave the pits it's most often sliding in a fog of tire smoke and less in control.

 

Just my musings. Prove me wrong.

Your musings are speculation, what makes you right?

[jcbc3]

Sheesh, you guys.

[MikeTekRacing]

I think the people on the rear close to the pit lane are the most exposed. They operate with the back facing traffic and cars leaving the pits behind them.

The front jackman is more of a different risk, the driver overshooting their braking. At least you can see it coming. 

[arrysen]

Just to note that in F1 the pit boxes are skewed so the REAR tire changer is closest to a departing car from behind and probably equally exposed as the front tire changer to a car entering the box ahead.  

They're skewed these days, were parallel back in the day but the three guys on the outside rear, along with the rear jack guy are for sure the most exposed to other cars leaving, much less so to cars entering the box ahead, although if the incoming driver to the box ahead has a problem or gets it wrong, of the group either working on the car or ready for it, they'll be the first ones in the firing line BUT when the pit lane is tight and maybe the incoming driver is a little unsighted or whatever, then the guys on the front outside tyre are exposed. I do think that part of the reason for F1 going to the skewed stop bays was to minimise the risk of this.

 

Ultimately, whilst the outside tyre dudes are more exposed to other cars generally, I can remember a wheel coming off Michele Alboreto's car after its stop, heading down the lane and hitting the Lotus guys. The guy who had his leg broken was at the front inside of the car from memory (but it was a long time ago and I may not be recalling correctly). 

 

Of course, it could always be Cole Trickle coming in at full tilt - then everyone's at risk  .

[ClubmanGT]

Front right. One fishtail on exit and you're gone-burger. Maybe less of an issue in modern pitlanes but in the tighter circuits it used to look like a hell of an thing to get the car out and into the lane under throttle. 

[Jackmancer]

The person deciding to release the car. Are the wheels on? Is another car coming into its path? Wouldn't want to be that guy/girl.

[MikeTekRacing]

Front right. One fishtail on exit and you're gone-burger. Maybe less of an issue in modern pitlanes but in the tighter circuits it used to look like a hell of an thing to get the car out and into the lane under throttle.

Surely rear is the same for the team in front of the car exiting?
They are steering to exit so bigger chance to hit those in front

Edited by MikeTekRacing, 27 August 2024 - 03:53.

[midgrid]

Thank you for sharing your firsthand experience.

Was this when refuelling was banned, or did you experience it in the 1990s?

[B Squared]

Sheesh, you guys.

Those guys? Check a mirror.

[1player]

I would think it was the rear outer tire changer that was in most danger?

 

When the car is stationary and the car in the pit ahead comes in, I can se that the front changer is in danger. But the incoming driver sees him and is most often 'in control' of his car. But when the car behind your car leave the pits it's most often sliding in a fog of tire smoke and less in control.

 

Just my musings. Prove me wrong.

I'll prove you right: that poor Ferrari guy that suffered a fracture when Raikkonen ran oven his leg in 2018.

 

https://www.skysport...kkonen-pit-stop

[blackhand2010]

See, when I read the question, I thought it meant hardest as in toughest i.e who could win a fight.

 

Answer to both interpretations of the question: front jack man.

[Alfisti]

Hands down the wheel guy. They are huge and heavy and if not mounted square means a misthread with the gun. Absolutely no room for messing up and hard work. Especially the guys with their backs to passing cars.

[ArnageWRC]

Refueller, on the dole since 2010.

 

I'm sure they still have them; IMSA, WEC, VLN/NLS, etc Unless my eyes are deceiving me.

[FirstnameLastname]

I want to be on the front right of Verstappens car… at Abu Dhabi 24 when he’s fighting Norris for the championship

And misplace the wheelnut

[loki]

So you couldn't. Wouldn't it have been easier just to say that?

 

When you’re coming in you may not as much control and you need to chop down into the spot.  Or misjudge.  That's why the crew chief is most at risk.  He’s also in the best position to see all the other crew and clear the driver into the lane.  When a stationary car peels out of pit lane there is less of a chance it will hit the car in fronts crew.  It’s more likely you could hit your own guy on the way out.  Some guys have overshot or missed but compared to getting chopped going into a box itks less likely.  Front outside gets chopped every time.  Guys miscalculate far less often.

[PayasYouRace]

Outside tyre changers at any IndyCar race during yellow pit stops. The margins between them and the swarm are ridiculously thin at the best of times.

I think the inside looks more dangerous. We’ve seen more than a few guys get squashed against the pit wall.

[jcbc3]

When you’re coming in you may not as much control and you need to chop down into the spot.  Or misjudge.  That's why the crew chief is most at risk.  He’s also in the best position to see all the other crew and clear the driver into the lane.  When a stationary car peels out of pit lane there is less of a chance it will hit the car in fronts crew.  It’s more likely you could hit your own guy on the way out.  Some guys have overshot or missed but compared to getting chopped going into a box itks less likely.  Front outside gets chopped every time.  Guys miscalculate far less often.

 

 

See, that was easy.

[arrysen]

Thank you for sharing your firsthand experience.

Was this when refuelling was banned, or did you experience it in the 1990s?

Kinda nice to reminisce about it to be honest mate - few decades back but some of it is as clear as yesterday.

 

For me, mostly when it was banned but did a couple of seasons with the fuel in the 90s. Those were crazy days!

[MikeTekRacing]

I want to be on the front right of Verstappens car… at Abu Dhabi 24 when he’s fighting Norris for the championship

And misplace the wheelnut

24? no way is Norris within striking range in Abu Dhabi. 

[milestone 11]

Kinda nice to reminisce about it to be honest mate ...

I bet, brilliant. 

[milestone 11]

24? no way is Norris within striking range in Abu Dhabi. 

We can live in hope though you miserable bugger. Rather than lose the nut, I'll teach FNLN how to cross thred the bloody thing.

[MikeTekRacing]

We can live in hope though you miserable bugger. Rather than lose the nut, I'll teach FNLN how to cross thred the bloody thing.

someone on Bottas's team certainly has the expertise

[jonpollak]

Sheesh, you guys.

Sorry Mr. Internet tough guy.
You’re all the same.

Jp

[jcbc3]

You are smarter than this, jp. 

[RainyAfterlifeDaylight]

[jcbc3]

Ignorance is bliss.

 

But he did get his laughs, so all's good for him.

[Secretariat]

I just watched the precision of the rear jack man at McLaren and thought 'handling something like that with such precision, that's some skills'.  And of course there is the bravery of any front jackman.  I've always thought hitting a moving nut in one go impressive. The NASCAR guys doing 5 in a row was something else to watch.  NHRA guys do full rebuilds between runs.  Maybe more to the garage end, but I just wanted to mention that    

 

Would you want to do one of these jobs? Ever try it on a demonstration setup?

I tried to put some thought into this and I think that doing what the NHRA crews do at the top level, every round and reliably get through eliminations is mind-boggling. Specific to pit crews and pit stops, NASCAR crews are pretty amazing. I was at the NASCAR Hall of Fame in 2015 and If I recall correctly they have/had a static pit crew demo to try.