31 replies to this topic

[pacificquay]

First and foremost this is not a thread to discuss specific drivers or incidents and the ones I will refer to are by way of example of the phenomenon, not for debating as points themselves.

 

What I’m interested to discuss is whether the instantaneous need for a hot take on everything has made viewers of F1 overly reactive, failing to see the big picture, acutely harsh and lacking perspective.

 

A few races ago when Mercedes strung a couple of wins together people were saying Hamilton had made a mistake in moving teams next year.

 

Today when that switches round people in the race thread are saying it’s a good job he is moving.

 

A week ago people were saying Oscar Piastri woefully underperformed and were extrapolating that into a massive gulf between him and Lando Norris, yet today people are saying the opposite.

 

Teams are lambasted as “idiots” for lacking hindsight or for not doing what people on instagram or forums want them to do.

 

Mistakes by drivers or teams are not tolerated or seen as part of the game of live sport, but signs the people involved are useless.

 

A team is 5th and 6th in free practice and it’s “weekend over” yet the same team could qualify well or win just a day or two later.

 

Why do we have to see small nuance as extreme difference?

 

Why does the on the surface immediacy of something make it a definitive position rather than just another point of data in a fluid situation?

It’s suggest in the days of watching the race and then reading more about it in Autosport on a Thursday there was more time for thoughtful reflection but the need for SOMETHING RIGHT NOW forces opinions into “amazing” or “awful” with no in between and no thought or context, understanding, empathy or humanity.

 

[arrysen]

I think that you're right on the money  - many viewers (& commentators) are overly reactive and wanting instant gratification all the time.

 

Reality is that patterns of true performance (or lack of it) show up across a number of races and can vary across a season. I'll bet if we go back to early 2023, there will have been viewers on forums such as this calling for Zak Brown's head on a platter for ruining a once-great team and taking McLaren in the wrong direction - how silly would they look if those same posts were dredged up now, just over a year later?

 

I takes years to get an F1 team right up to the pointy end and there are going to be peaks and troughs along the way - over time teams minimise the number and depth of troughs and aim to increase the number and height of the peaks - but it simply takes time. When online commentary is being critical on a race by race or session by session basis, that commentary is simply unrealistic and seems to not understand just how complex and difficult the sport is.

Edited by arrysen, 01 September 2024 - 18:19.

[pdac]

Yes. When information can be broadcast in an instant, people start to expect everything to happen in an instant and there then a demand for instant interpretation of everything that appears. The world of the information super highway is populated by impatient people who do not want to be left behind (hence FOMO).

Edited by pdac, 01 September 2024 - 18:49.

[Brod]

Was always this way. Most fans are clueless....was the same 20 years ago. 

[noikeee]

This is not a F1 thing. It's a society thing.

[Venom]

In sports media, hot takes and hyper reaction to events are what creates views and interest. And most fans will follow wherever the media takes them.

It’s true that social media has supercharged it because it’s now given everyone an audience, in a world where the currency is retweets and likes. Opinions and statements which are as reactionary as possible are essentially encouraged.

Edited by Venom, 01 September 2024 - 23:44.

[SCUDmissile]

No.

The F1 fanbase has always been like this.

'youre only as good as your last race' is not a new thing

[Nathan]

You are seeing the portion of the population that over react because they have the public medium to demonstrate it. Before they just shouted it at their TV, now they post it.

[Astandahl]

Social didn't make people reactionary.

 

It exposed people being reactionary in the first place. Now you can access millions of people's opinions from your PC, smartphone, whatever in every moment.

[Gravelngrass]

First and foremost this is not a thread to discuss specific drivers or incidents and the ones I will refer to are by way of example of the phenomenon, not for debating as points themselves.

What I’m interested to discuss is whether the instantaneous need for a hot take on everything has made viewers of F1 overly reactive, failing to see the big picture, acutely harsh and lacking perspective.

A few races ago when Mercedes strung a couple of wins together people were saying Hamilton had made a mistake in moving teams next year.

Today when that switches round people in the race thread are saying it’s a good job he is moving.

A week ago people were saying Oscar Piastri woefully underperformed and were extrapolating that into a massive gulf between him and Lando Norris, yet today people are saying the opposite.

Teams are lambasted as “idiots” for lacking hindsight or for not doing what people on instagram or forums want them to do.

Mistakes by drivers or teams are not tolerated or seen as part of the game of live sport, but signs the people involved are useless.

A team is 5th and 6th in free practice and it’s “weekend over” yet the same team could qualify well or win just a day or two later.

Why do we have to see small nuance as extreme difference?

Why does the on the surface immediacy of something make it a definitive position rather than just another point of data in a fluid situation?
It’s suggest in the days of watching the race and then reading more about it in Autosport on a Thursday there was more time for thoughtful reflection but the need for SOMETHING RIGHT NOW forces opinions into “amazing” or “awful” with no in between and no thought or context, understanding, empathy or humanity.

Spot on, in short, reaction has replaced reflection…

[PayasYouRace]

I don’t think people have changed. We just have the ability to broadcast our every thought instantly, and it’s pretty toxic.

 

We’re having one of the most amazing F1 seasons of modern times, but fans are ruining it by posting before they think.

[Giz]

Clickbait doesn't help. My work browser opens to MSN news when I open a new tab and here are some of the headlines.

 

"Sky pundit makes worrying admission over George Russell's drug test"

"RB20 data reveal as 'trust' issues emerge at Red Bull"

"Lewis Hamilton FUMES as FIA issue Monza punishment"

"Max wants Lewis F1 PENALTY at Monza as Mercedes star forced off track"

 

anything involving the words true colours is popular as well.

[PayasYouRace]

And nobody has used the term “true colours” in a positive way since Phil Collins.

[Beri]

Clickbait doesn't help. My work browser opens to MSN news when I open a new tab and here are some of the headlines.

 

"Sky pundit makes worrying admission over George Russell's drug test"

"RB20 data reveal as 'trust' issues emerge at Red Bull"

"Lewis Hamilton FUMES as FIA issue Monza punishment"

"Max wants Lewis F1 PENALTY at Monza as Mercedes star forced off track"

 

anything involving the words true colours is popular as well.

 

80% of those messages are AI generated and not even the result of a (proper) journo.

[Mark A]

As others have said, nothing has changed, instead of having the discussion with work colleagues or friends on a Monday morning, or down the pub, you now have it with ‘the world’ on social media.

 

For 20+ years it was on internet forums like this, I’ve been here 22 years, where there is still some level of control, be that moderation or people being more guarded in their comments, but the rise of things like Twitter has made the whole thing toxic as your comment is open to the world and unmoderated, at least on things like FB it’s still technically a group discussion.

[absinthedude]

Yes, I believe the nature of discussion has changed, though this is not specifically limited to F1.

 

I've been discussion F1 in pubs and other social spaces since the early 80s. I've been discussing it online since the late 80s - yes, predating the www. Undoubtedly things have changed.

 

What has changed is the sense of entitlement. Fands make demands. And demand things are done quickly. 

 

There's also this frustrating lack of nuance and of patience. A driver is either absolute top draw Lewis or Max type, or they're rubbish and useless. Drivers who do really well but who aren't quite clear WDC material are dismissed as "useless" or "terrible". Drivers and teams are insulted for not doing what entitled fans think they should do, writing from the safety of their keyboards and armchairs. Fans who disagree are also lambasted. There seems to be no acceptance of the fact that no driver or team can win every event and that performance of cars, team members and drivers can and inevitably will fluctuate a bit....even at the very top. 

 

What I also see is far more partisanship....fans of one driver performing mental gymnastics worthy of Olympic medals to spin events in favour of their driver and against another. And again, when someone with some actual knowledge of racing comes along and explains why they might be wrong....the insults come out. 

 

This is certainly not only limited to F1. We see it increasingly in politics, where a certain Mr. Trump is definitely guilty of demonstrating and encouraging such behaviour. But I also see it amont fans of rock bands....for example "Band A should do this".....basically just because a fan thinks they should. "They should do a new album and tour"....when they should do whatever the phrack *they* want to do. "I've bought every one of their records, they owe this to me"....no, they owe you diddly-squat. You bought their music, you can listen to it any time you want...that's what you bought. 

 

We are certainly not helped by clickbait headlines as outlined above. Even Autosport and motorsport.com are guilty of this at times. It is tabloid "journalism" of some of the lowest levels when a driver who expresses a reasonable opinion is always said to be "fuming" or "angry". Any small mistake is a "blunder"...

 

Sometimes your favoured driver or team won't win. Sometimes that's because they made a mistake or weren't quite at their peak. It might be because the team made a duff call on strategy. It might be because they didn't choose the right tyres. It might be because someone else made a small mistake and cost them time. It all happens. There is absolutely nothing intrinsically unfair about your favoured driver retiring with a mechanical fault on his car, or finishing 2nd or 3rd instead of winning because another driver and/or car performed better on the day. Human beings do make mistakes. That all used to be part of the attraction of sports. Now it seems people simply don't understand nuance and get all angry all the time because, I assume, they have to be "fuming" rather than mildly disappointed.

 

Gods know what would have happened if the web had been a thing around Adelaide 1986.....or Suzuka 89 or 90....

 

As Boris Becker once said after crashing out of Wimbledon early, "I lost a tennis match. Nobody died". 

Edited by absinthedude, 02 September 2024 - 11:46.

[Risil]

As others have said, nothing has changed, instead of having the discussion with work colleagues or friends on a Monday morning, or down the pub, you now have it with ‘the world’ on social media.

For 20+ years it was on internet forums like this, I’ve been here 22 years, where there is still some level of control, be that moderation or people being more guarded in their comments, but the rise of things like Twitter has made the whole thing toxic as your comment is open to the world and unmoderated, at least on things like FB it’s still technically a group discussion.

The big legacy social media platforms (that is, Twitter, Facebook, probably not Reddit) are deliberately designed to elicit quick reactions and then get the hottest ones to as many people as possible as quickly as possible. No surprise about the results.

[TomNokoe]

I will make a longer post about this when I have time, but I am convinced there is no global sport that openly embraces Twitter / X as much as F1 does.

It's not just an organic community that has grown on one of the world's most popular websites, it's clearly part of Liberty's fan engagement strategy. I think this is a major contributor to fan culture, but also the wider of culture of F1.

[absinthedude]

I will make a longer post about this when I have time, but I am convinced there is no global sport that openly embraces Twitter / X as much as F1 does.

It's not just an organic community that has grown on one of the world's most popular websites, it's clearly part of Liberty's fan engagement strategy. I think this is a major contributor to fan culture, but also the wider of culture of F1.

 

And likely a major part of why older (former) fans such as myself feel so turned off by the current F1 culture. 

[Nathan]

But that would be for everything, right? F1, footie, tennis...

[OvDrone]

I think people have always been this way. The internet / social media is just exacerbating and accelerating everything. It was over the top a long while ago and since then it has only gotten worse.

We can blame the algorhytms and whatnot, but ultimately the responsibility lays in our hands. It's our own choice to be reactionary and unhinged or not. We can always try better. 

Hence, I only get my Motorsport news from some very specific sites, 'cause like everything out there, most is just garbage unworthy of ones attention. Especially the hopeless landfill that twitter is.

No Motorsport news from social media at all.

[Mc_Silver]

I completely agree with the analysis. The society has changed and people rarely look at the bigger picture and think before they write/speak which leads to destructive discussions rather than constructive ones.

[IrvTheSwerve]

Social media comments sections are cesspits - just remember that most of the commenters are nothing like that in real life. I know someone who posts loads of expletive-ridden bile on Facebook, but he is the quietest person you can meet when seeing him in real life and would never get into an argument.

[DeKnyff]

You are seeing the portion of the population that over react because they have the public medium to demonstrate it. Before they just shouted it at their TV, now they post it.

 

But that makes a sizable difference, though: having a public medium to demonstrate it allows to win new adepts and multiply them.

[messy]

I stopped listening to certain podcasts because they started absolutely driving me mad with the way they changed opinions so rapidly and I dunno, the whole way they look at the sport - trends, form, storylines, analysing performances, analysing the state of the sport - is just increasingly alien to the way I see it. I just think I'm getting old really. Newer generations of fans look at the sport through completely different eyes and through the lens of social media, and it's fine - but I'm not interested in changing.

Edited by messy, 02 September 2024 - 14:40.

[PayasYouRace]

Social media comments sections are cesspits - just remember that most of the commenters are nothing like that in real life. I know someone who posts loads of expletive-ridden bile on Facebook, but he is the quietest person you can meet when seeing him in real life and would never get into an argument.

I guess for some people it’s a way to vent.

[Risil]

I stopped listening to certain podcasts because they started absolutely driving me mad with the way they changed opinions so rapidly and I dunno, the whole way they look at the sport - trends, form, storylines, analysing performances, analysing the state of the sport - is just increasingly alien to the way I see it. I just think I'm getting old really. Newer generations of fans look at the sport through completely different eyes and through the lens of social media, and it's fine - but I'm not interested in changing.

 

  This is experience rather than age talking. Trust yourself.

[New Britain]

First and foremost this is not a thread to discuss specific drivers or incidents and the ones I will refer to are by way of example of the phenomenon, not for debating as points themselves.

 

What I’m interested to discuss is whether the instantaneous need for a hot take on everything has made viewers of F1 overly reactive, failing to see the big picture, acutely harsh and lacking perspective.

 

A few races ago when Mercedes strung a couple of wins together people were saying Hamilton had made a mistake in moving teams next year.

 

Today when that switches round people in the race thread are saying it’s a good job he is moving.

 

A week ago people were saying Oscar Piastri woefully underperformed and were extrapolating that into a massive gulf between him and Lando Norris, yet today people are saying the opposite.

 

Teams are lambasted as “idiots” for lacking hindsight or for not doing what people on instagram or forums want them to do.

 

Mistakes by drivers or teams are not tolerated or seen as part of the game of live sport, but signs the people involved are useless.

 

A team is 5th and 6th in free practice and it’s “weekend over” yet the same team could qualify well or win just a day or two later.

 

Why do we have to see small nuance as extreme difference?

 

Why does the on the surface immediacy of something make it a definitive position rather than just another point of data in a fluid situation?

It’s suggest in the days of watching the race and then reading more about it in Autosport on a Thursday there was more time for thoughtful reflection but the need for SOMETHING RIGHT NOW forces opinions into “amazing” or “awful” with no in between and no thought or context, understanding, empathy or humanity.

 

Really interesting question, PQ.

Much of this is explained by the work done in social psychology in the last 50-60 years, especially regarding Cognitive Dissonance, Social Identity, and Self-esteem Theories.

- People have an innate need to choose a side; staying neutral is inherently an unstable psychological condition.

- People may choose a side for any reason, even a very trivial one. After choosing their side, their allegiance becomes very sticky.

- Self-esteem is hugely important to us, and people will derive their self-esteem from the side with which they identify. Hence the psychological stakes become much more important than the intrinsic value of who won a stupid motor race.

[AlexPrime]

Internet and SM ruined pretty much everything 

[AustinF1]

Was always this way. Most fans are clueless....was the same 20 years ago. 

Yep. I think the difference now is just that, with social media, the fans get much more information, much quicker and more easily than before ... and, more importantly, they now have the means to express their overreactions to the world.

 

I've previously described this era as 'The Age of Overreaction'.

Edited by AustinF1, 02 September 2024 - 16:13.

[AustinF1]

Social media comments sections are cesspits - just remember that most of the commenters are nothing like that in real life. I know someone who posts loads of expletive-ridden bile on Facebook, but he is the quietest person you can meet when seeing him in real life and would never get into an argument.

100% this.

[arrysen]

I think people have always been this way. The internet / social media is just exacerbating and accelerating everything. It was over the top a long while ago and since then it has only gotten worse.

We can blame the algorhytms and whatnot, but ultimately the responsibility lays in our hands. It's our own choice to be reactionary and unhinged or not. We can always try better. 

Hence, I only get my Motorsport news from some very specific sites, 'cause like everything out there, most is just garbage unworthy of ones attention. Especially the hopeless landfill that twitter is.

No Motorsport news from social media at all.

Agree - I've never been tempted to join Twitter (the whole limited characters thing meant to me that it was guaranteed to be shallow, vacuous & puerile) but the sheer volume of F1 "news" that pops up on other feeds (including YouTube) is extraordinary. In 99.86%  of the cases I ignore those posts and rely instead on known media (primarily Autosport) to be factual or close to it. 

 

Interesting though, is a conversation I had about 20 years ago with the guy who at the time was motorsport manager at V8 Supercars (it was before social media). He told me that they'd get about 5,000 emails over the course of a normal race weekend (would go up to 8 or 9 thousand for Bathurst) sent by fans during races, which they wouldn't see until they got back to the office after the race (emails sent to a central "contact us" email address). Nearly all of them were fans ranting about an incident during the race, making accusations of bias or corruption and going on an unhinged vent. All the emails would get answered with a few standard answers he'd write for the people running the contact email address - in nearly every case, the answer would be "a penalty was applied during the race you were watching" or similar. 

 

Now, people vent on social media instead and IMHO do so far too quickly and with no level of nuance - joining into a race thread during the race for example is in many ways an exercise in futility that must reduce at least some of the enjoyment (& understanding) of the race for those doing so.