646 replies to this topic

[Gareth]

There's been plenty of chat in the Paddock and in this forum about McLaren's use of team orders in recent races, and whether they should be using them to support a WDC bid for lead driver in the WDC standings, Lando Norris.

 

Having taken a line in Hungary that any WDC challenge needs the full team (including a fully motivated and performing Oscar Piastri) behind it, McLaren have now hinted they may start to do this. Toto Wolff certainly thinks it's time for them to start using them. Race Fans on the other hand think it's not the right time.

 

What do you think?

[pacificquay]

I've voted yes, now is the right time, because it is an unexpected chance that shouldn't be left to go begging.

 

However, I admire the fact that McLaren throughout its history has generally allowed its drivers to race more than probably any other team.

[PayasYouRace]

It’s probably slightly too late. But then, it was probably slightly too late when it was clear Red Bull were struggling. So basically, yes, they should start at the next race.

Come back next year with both drivers on an equal footing, but with only Lando having a shot at the title, and a long one at that, they need to maximise his results from now on.

You can never count on “next year” in Formula 1.

[southernstars]

Come back next year with both drivers on an equal footing, but with only Lando having a shot at the title, and a long one at that, they need to maximise his results from now on.

You can never count on “next year” in Formula 1.

 

No, you can't. Which is why Oscar should be allowed to race until he is mathematically out of it. Because what if he surrenders himself to Norris' title this year, Norris manages to scrape it, and then the McLaren is rubbish? He'll have given up his chance and the team will favour Norris because he is the champion.

 

Let them race on the first lap. Do what you will later. But if McLaren end up in a situation where they're having to ask Oscar to move over every race they should review it.

[Deeq]

No, until Oscar is mathematically out of the WDC they should not.. btw this is the historical McLaren fan argument against Ferrari team orders!
It seems it was a convenient club..not a principle 😅

[Deeq]

There's been plenty of chat in the Paddock and in this forum about McLaren's use of team orders in recent races, and whether they should be using them to support a WDC bid for lead driver in the WDC standings, Lando Norris.

Having taken a line in Hungary that any WDC challenge needs the full team (including a fully motivated and performing Oscar Piastri) behind it, McLaren have now hinted they may start to do this. Toto Wolff certainly thinks it's time for them to start using them. Race Fans on the other hand think it's not the right time.

What do you think?

Your 2nd poll question isnt strictly rational, ought to be neutral..X driver rather than Lando & specified when!

Edited by Deeq, 03 September 2024 - 11:15.

[baddog]

I think they probably at this point should from a pragmatic view.. BUT it is totally for the team to decide, in discussion with their drivers, how they want to run their team. If Mclaren want to take a 'they are in it till they are mathematically out' then I respect that a lot.

[carlb5253]

They would be stupid not to. I cant believe they didn’t switch them on Sunday

[Gareth]

Your 2nd poll question isnt strictly rational, ought to be neutral..X driver rather than Lando & specified when!

I ought to have known that including two polls would just lead to double the complaints about the polls, ha ha!

[F1Frog]

No, you can't. Which is why Oscar should be allowed to race until he is mathematically out of it. Because what if he surrenders himself to Norris' title this year, Norris manages to scrape it, and then the McLaren is rubbish? He'll have given up his chance and the team will favour Norris because he is the champion.

Let them race on the first lap. Do what you will later. But if McLaren end up in a situation where they're having to ask Oscar to move over every race they should review it.

But Piastri is realistically out of it, and the best interests of the team should trump one individual. I am sure Piastri would be fine with it.

[messy]

Honestly I don't know. I can't quite bring myself to join the clamour for team orders yet because I'm looking at the points table and I still just don't see Lando winning the WDC, not this year. The gap is still big and surely Red Bull will win again this year, won't they? Lando is also making life a bit hard for himself at times, and I feel like McLaren's best chance of winning the WCC is to capitalise on maximising the result for their best positioned car - if Lando fluffs his start and Piastri is sitting in the best position then I think it's right really that he's given the chance to stay there if letting Lando through would compromise his own race. I think if Norris was slightly more convincing in the role of title challenger, it'd be slightly easier to justify it. And I don't doubt he can do that- whether it happens in time to make him a realistic 2024 WDC is what I doubt.

[BRG]

But Piastri is realistically out of it, and the best interests of the team should trump one individual. I am sure Piastri would be fine with it.

I dislike team orders as a rule and respect it when team let drivers race.

 

But if it is imposed, I doubt if Piastri will be fine with it.or indeed obey it  He showed very clearly at Monza that he does not give a fig for the team or the other driver.  

[Gareth]

But if it is imposed, I doubt if Piastri will be fine with it.or indeed obey it He showed very clearly at Monza that he does not give a fig for the team or the other driver.

This seems to ignore the fact that he’s been issued multiple team orders already this season, has complied with all of them, and hasn’t sent a single radio message or given a single interview to even hint that he might have had the merest flicker of a problem with them.

He executes one excellent, and completely clean, pass on Lando and suddenly it’s ignore all that actual history of what he’s actually done with regards to actual team orders, and imagine that he’ll just ignore the team?

Ok.

[Broekschaap]

I hate team orders. But they should give them. What are they thinking? They have a shot at the WDC and should maximise that chance, that is with Lando. At the same time Oscar should ignore the team orders and irritate the hell out of the team. It's topsport, not kindergarten league trying keeping everybody happy.

Edited by Broekschaap, 03 September 2024 - 11:52.

[noikeee]

It's a tricky, timeless unanswerable question because team orders are ethically questionable and surely not what us fans want to see, yet it still very much feels like they're being naive and too keen on looking nice not to use them.

 

Oscar has **** all chance. Lando has a slight, but possible chance. Seems to me they bungled Hungary and married themselves to the idea of being pristine and not using them, but it's becoming clearer and clearer they're wasting a weapon when it might go down to the wire and any extra weapon they use might just make the difference.

[RedRabbit]

Honestly I don't know. I can't quite bring myself to join the clamour for team orders yet because I'm looking at the points table and I still just don't see Lando winning the WDC, not this year. The gap is still big and surely Red Bull will win again this year, won't they? Lando is also making life a bit hard for himself at times, and I feel like McLaren's best chance of winning the WCC is to capitalise on maximising the result for their best positioned car - if Lando fluffs his start and Piastri is sitting in the best position then I think it's right really that he's given the chance to stay there if letting Lando through would compromise his own race. I think if Norris was slightly more convincing in the role of title challenger, it'd be slightly easier to justify it. And I don't doubt he can do that- whether it happens in time to make him a realistic 2024 WDC is what I doubt.

This sums up the situation perfectly. The points gap is still realistically a bit too much, and Lando has not been a convincing title challenger all season.

He would have needed team orders in 4 of the last 5 races.

McLaren are right to focus on the WCC first and secure that for the first time since 1998.

[noikeee]

This seems to ignore the fact that he’s been issued multiple team orders already this season, has complied with all of them, and hasn’t sent a single radio message or given a single interview to even hint that he might have had the merest flicker of a problem with them.

He executes one excellent, and completely clean, pass on Lando and suddenly it’s ignore all that actual history of what he’s actually done with regards to actual team orders, and imagine that he’ll just ignore the team?

Ok.

 

Ehh "excellent completely clean move" is not quite what happened in my opinion, the risk was super high on that one, margins were tiny, and it only worked because Lando backed out of it.

 

It's the kind of move you make on opponents when you've got nothing to lose, or when you want to make a statement and try to gain a psychological advantage over your teammate. In fact McLaren came out of that corner with a 1-3 not a 1-2 (and might have costed them the race win as it gave Charles a better track position). It was very much not what you'd do if you're working together as a team.

 

Point taken it says nothing about whether Oscar would comply or not with explicit team orders, but I don't think it was just a normal move neither. Specially given the context of Lando being in the WDC fight. To me it says Oscar absolutely does not give a **** about it and is fighting for himself first and foremost. I'm not sure I'd be okay with that as a McLaren boss.

Edited by noikeee, 03 September 2024 - 11:56.

[JeanAlesi27]

I hate team orders. But they should give them. What are they thinking? They have a shot at the WDC and should maximise that chance, that is with Lando. At the same time Oscar should ignore the team orders and irritate the hell out of the team. It's topsport, not kindergarten league trying keeping everybody happy.

 

Who likes them?  No one.   But if a driver has a shot at beating a team who's been so dominant for 2 years and now faltering - if you are not applying team orders to achieve the Championship - it's a clown show,  not a race team.  

 

 Monza was just that - a clown show throwing away a chance at 1-2.    Oh but Oscar's amazing move...       I can see both Redbull and Ferrari applauding his heroics,   Bravo Oscar..

[RedRabbit]

It's a tricky, timeless unanswerable question because team orders are ethically questionable and surely not what us fans want to see, yet it still very much feels like they're being naive and too keen on looking nice not to use them.

Oscar has **** all chance. Lando has a slight, but possible chance. Seems to me they bungled Hungary and married themselves to the idea of being pristine and not using them, but it's becoming clearer and clearer they're wasting a weapon when it might go down to the wire and any extra weapon they use might just make the difference.

Or ... They're using the data they have on their drivers and decided that Norris isn't putting in a strong enough showing to justify the potential tension.

And Mark Webber will know, that once a driver is relegated to support role, it's nearly impossible to get out of it in the same team. If Norris did win it, he will expect the same to defend his title next year. It's a one-way ticket.

[RedRabbit]

Who likes them? No one. But if a driver has a shot at beating a team who's been so dominant for 2 years and now faltering - if you are not applying team orders to achieve the Championship - it's a clown show, not a race team.

Monza was just that - a clown show throwing away a chance at 1-2. Oh but Oscar's amazing move... I can see both Redbull and Ferrari applauding his heroics, Bravo Oscar..

McLaren fans moaning about throwing away a Monza 1-2 are overlooking that after 30 laps of thrashing their cars and trading Fastest Laps, Oscar was only 5 seconds ahead of Charles , and Lando in-between that.

Charles was exceptional and most likely going to win anyway.

Edited by RedRabbit, 03 September 2024 - 12:14.

[noikeee]

And Mark Webber will know, that once a driver is relegated to support role, it's nearly impossible to get out of it in the same team. If Norris did win it, he will expect the same to defend his title next year. It's a one-way ticket.

I disagree. Piastri is young and still learning and getting closer to Lando more often. The stopwatch never lies, if you're faster than your teammate then the other way around, then the team can't make you a #2. It's happened even to older drivers, see how Massa supported Kimi in the late races in 2007 yet roles were switched the next year.

[southernstars]

It's the kind of move you make on opponents when you've got nothing to lose, or when you want to make a statement and try to gain a psychological advantage over your teammate.

 

Yes. And? If Norris can't counter that's a him problem, not an Oscar problem.

[Benchulo]

McLaren is already giving priority to Norris with new updates and pitstops when they are close on track. It's up to Norris to consistently out perform Piastri. Since Austria both are evenly matched, scoring 85 points each.

WCC should be the focus for McLaren. Ferrari are right behind them with 8 races remaining.

Edited by Benchulo, 03 September 2024 - 12:23.

[baddog]

I dislike team orders as a rule and respect it when team let drivers race.

 

But if it is imposed, I doubt if Piastri will be fine with it.or indeed obey it  He showed very clearly at Monza that he does not give a fig for the team or the other driver.  

 

I mean you sound a bit conflicted here? You (forgive me if I suggest very aggressively when some other drivers gained from them) dislike team orders but you cant resist wanting them when you want a guy to win? To the extent of being very unfair to a driver who has never disobeyed a team order?

[Gareth]

For what it's worth for me, F1 is clearly a team sport (with hundreds of people beside the drivers contributing to the effort), the WDC is clearly the pinnacle of the sport and what every team is aiming for (yes I know some 'purists' will claim it's about the WCC, but it's not really), and opportunities to win a WDC can be rare. So when you have a chance at one, even if it's a slim chance, you should go all in to grab it.

 

So to me as soon as it became apparent the McLaren was up there with, or better than, the Red Bull, and that Lando had an outside shot at taking the WDC, McLaren should have gotten behind Lando's WDC challenge and started issuing team orders.

 

I think Piastri would have been ok with this, based on how phlegmatic he'd been about team orders, and receiving upgrades second, earlier in the season. One overtake doesn't change my mind on that.

 

We've seen how pressure being applied to the seemingly perfect Red Bull and Max Verstappen has seen them each make uncharacteristic mistakes. You reduce that points gap by 15 - 30%, so it's something like 46pts, as might have been possible if they'd issued orders already in Hungary and Italy, and the pressure on RB and Max is so much higher.

 

The one counter argument I think has some weight behind it is motivation for Piastri. There's no doubt he's driven better in the second third of the season than he did in the first third. Does that happen if he's told he's playing second fiddle the rest of the season at the halfway point? Him driving as well as he is, and being a threat to take points off Max even on days where the RB is competitive, is a big part of why Lando has a shot.

 

But overall I'd still be all for it. McLaren should put everything behind Lando and the shot he has. The last time they were in this position was, what, 14 years ago? Who knows when the next chance may come?

[Gareth]

 

 

Ehh "excellent completely clean move" is not quite what happened in my opinion, the risk was super high on that one, margins were tiny, and it only worked because Lando backed out of it.

 

It's the kind of move you make on opponents when you've got nothing to lose, or when you want to make a statement and try to gain a psychological advantage over your teammate. In fact McLaren came out of that corner with a 1-3 not a 1-2 (and might have costed them the race win as it gave Charles a better track position). It was very much not what you'd do if you're working together as a team.

 

Point taken it says nothing about whether Oscar would comply or not with explicit team orders, but I don't think it was just a normal move neither. Specially given the context of Lando being in the WDC fight. To me it says Oscar absolutely does not give a **** about it and is fighting for himself first and foremost. I'm not sure I'd be okay with that as a McLaren boss.

Fwiw I was of the same view as you when I saw it live, but viewing the replays I think the initial "head on" shot gives a distorted view, and the helicopter shot and Norris in car footage show what I described.

 

Oscar got nearly a full car's length ahead at one point. Lando closes back up by braking later (hardly backing out ...), but because he can't get back ahead and is still behind at the apex, has to give Oscar room on the outside. This leads to more steering lock than he expects, and his small oversteer moment that costs him momentum and the position.

 

I think it's tough to ask a guy who's got to 3/4 of a car length ahead to back out of the move. Lando on the other hand could have properly backed out, and blended in behind, and then wouldn't have lost the position to Charles as well.

 

All of which could have been avoided via team orders pre-race - which could have given them a shot at the one/two ...

[Myrvold]

I voted "should have done it before" - as in "Should've been done at Monza when Piastri wasn't able to catch Leclerc".

 

I think the Hungary-situation was handled correctly, but after Zandvoort they should've decided to back Norris.

 

Now, I also feel like they should be allowed to race like they did on lap 1 at Monza, even when backing Norris, because I don't think it is any positives in doing something that can cause a driver to have second thoughts about the starts where much is done on instinct. It is a bit like drivers making mistakes when easing off and driving safe, the concentration-level needs to be at a maximum. The same on lap 1, they need to be on. And I feel if they order a driver to not challenge etc. it can end up going the other way. They can swap around later in the race, don't make the drivers hesitate and be unsure at the start of the race.

[New Britain]

Team orders are a blunt instrument, and the need for them implies that the supporting driver is offering support against his will, which is never a good thing.

I'd rather that McLaren refrain from issuing team orders, but at the same time Piastri say to Norris, 'You have been the better driver this year, you've a much more realistic chance than I do of winning the WDC, so from here forward I'll support you in any way that I can. But be warned - next year I'm going to beat you.'

[miso]

I mean you sound a bit conflicted here? You (forgive me if I suggest very aggressively when some other drivers gained from them) dislike team orders but you cant resist wanting them when you want a guy to win? To the extent of being very unfair to a driver who has never disobeyed a team order?

 

The attacks on Oscar's character have been really disappointing. He's always complied with team orders without complaint and I don't think his overtake on Sunday was outside of Papaya Rules. The team had ample time to make him change the order if it was. 

 

I voted "should have done it before" - as in "Should've been done at Monza when Piastri wasn't able to catch Leclerc".

 

I think the Hungary-situation was handled correctly, but after Zandvoort they should've decided to back Norris.

 

Now, I also feel like they should be allowed to race like they did on lap 1 at Monza, even when backing Norris, because I don't think it is any positives in doing something that can cause a driver to have second thoughts about the starts where much is done on instinct. It is a bit like drivers making mistakes when easing off and driving safe, the concentration-level needs to be at a maximum. The same on lap 1, they need to be on. And I feel if they order a driver to not challenge etc. it can end up going the other way. They can swap around later in the race, don't make the drivers hesitate and be unsure at the start of the race.

 

Agree with all of this. The WCC is still the most likely championship this year and messng around from the start isn't the best way to achieve it.

 

My partner is a Williams fan since the 80s and he said he would have no problem if they asked Oscar to swap positions. He has no skin in the game as far as Lando winning the WDC is concerned.  

Edited by miso, 03 September 2024 - 13:03.

[Sterzo]

I voted Maybe, if he gets closer to Max.

 

The problem facing McLaren is that Norris isn't always better than Piastri. Team orders could mean sacrificing wins & podiums to support a speculative shot at the championship. If Lando bangs in a few wins and closes in on Max, that's the time to think of it. Otherwise they'll be sacrificing "today's" results in the mere hope that (a) Red Bull won't sort themselves out and (b) Norris will develop the resilience that's been slightly missing from his career so far.

[kumo7]

After say some fourteen years of nothing, with drivers like Jonson Button, Alonso, Perez, Sainz, Ricciardo, the PU partners Mercedes, Honda, Renault, ... the team burned the bridges in many many ways with or without consequnt effects and causes, now in numberes it can get WDC and WCC, this is the chance in 100 years.

Red Bull struggles rarely this year, the team that won nearly all races just last year. This is absolutely the moment the team has to go for it. And if and when it goes for it, it has go with the best possible chance.

 

So, go with Norris. this must be rationally laid out on Oscar Piastri's logic. As long as McLaren does it, there should be no problem.

Edited by kumo7, 03 September 2024 - 13:32.

[Raest]

From the team's perspective is a no-brainer to back Norris. There is no guarantee that they will have this chance again soon, they haven't had it in the past 16 years, they may not have it for another 16 (and that's true for every team not just McLaren).  

It's mathematically improbable for Piastri to win it, he is 106 points behind and needs a more than a 15-point differential to Max at every remaining weekend. In some parallel universe out there it might happen but not in ours. If they had a 2014-16 Mercedes advantage over the competition in which case they would be racing against each other yes, I would agree that no team orders are needed but since any of the other 3 can beat them on any given GP, they should impose team orders, if they are serious about the WDC. 

Next year is a clean slate and at the end of the day Piastri's feelings (and more so those of his fans) come second to the team's success. 

 

Edit: To clarify, nothing that happened on Sunday was Piastri's fault IMO. 

Edited by Raest, 03 September 2024 - 13:43.

[Hank]

Not a huge fan of team orders, but I have accepted that it is now an integral part of F1. Few times when team orders should not be issued are:

 

1. The car is miles better than the next fast car (Mercs 2014-2016) throughout the season, and not just for the first half or second half. In that case the WDC is pretty much between the team mates. Max had the fast car for the initial races, and coupled with McLaren's bungling has built a huge lead, which can end up being safe enough. MCL obviously have a much better car now, but I feel its too late to mount a comeback. They should have started with team orders as soon as the car was better.
2. The other team, also contending for the WDC, also has two top notch drivers. In this case it is clearly not the case. MCL are not racing the Mercs. They are racing RB where it is quite clear that the team will rally around Max from Day 1. Absolutely stupid if you dont rally around one driver yourself. You just end up taking points off each other, while Max will be safe with scraps. 

 

Assuming RB finds its winning ways back next season, teams like Ferrari, MCL or Merc should not waste time in identifying their WDC contender to get behind. This is the only way to beat RB and Max, of course in addition to being the car faster than or at par with RB. 

[Naquada]

Like a few others have said above, I've always disliked Team Orders in principle, but that is what has always happened in F1, so if you don't use team orders, your just not competing on a level playing field.

 

So yes, McLaren need to wake up and start to impose them from the next race.  If Red Bull's drop off in form continues, it could be Ferarri & Charles Leclerc they are competing against come the end of the season.  And we know Ferrari won't spend even a minute debating it.

[danmills]

Absolutely not. Not yet, at least.

 

I personally believe Mclaren aren't putting team orders for the WDC yet because they don't want to upset the dynamics and lay the foundations of team drama next year and onwards. A WDC would be nice, but not at the expense of Norris being gifted it and Oscar getting thrown under the bus in doing so when at times he looks as good as Lando on his good days. Say he gives up 5 wins for Lando then Lando loses it. For what? A WCC they already might have.

 

Lando still acts emotionally fragile at times. Losing a WDC that way will reduce him to rubble for a bit.

 

You go into 2025 with grudges and chips from both parties. Let both slog it out in 2024. If Lando wins, he gets it on merit and has fought for it. If he loses it, both drivers will have probably taken wins off eachother in the process and endured a level of stress, mistakes and matured from doing so.

 

It's likely Mclaren will bag the WCC at this rate anyway so why risk everything and end up with two disappointed drivers and a WDC?

 

Lando has thrown tiny little tantrums already. 

 

Lando already showed his cards by the way he handled Hungary. He's forgotten the pit strategy preferential treatment he got at Silverstone,  a race up until that call Oscar was absolutely flying.

 

See how the next race goes, if Oscar is behind then sure, but if he's P1/P2 let them race. The problem they have is that Oscar is showing he is too good for a backseat No.2 and Lando isn't lightyears ahead of him IMHO.

Edited by danmills, 03 September 2024 - 15:15.

[PayasYouRace]

If Lando is as emotionally fragile as you think he is, he’ll suffer more if he loses the championship without getting 100% support from the team, than if he loses it with No.1 status.

[Sterzo]

Oh dear, danmills, is there a number we can phone if we are affected by any of those issues? (But I do agree with your underlying point that team orders would be a mistake).

[kumo7]

If Norris is notcapable of, then what ever McLaren does, WDC will not be achievable. McLaren cannot gift it to Norris.

[Mc_Silver]

Of course they should. They should have started using it long time ago but it is never too late to repent. Oscar is such a good driver who has been improving and getting better every race so far but he still has a long way to go to be a match for Lando in a consistent basis. Lando has been very loyal team player and it's a no brainer to fully support him in the WDC fight.

[pacificquay]

There is absolutely no solid evidence to support the idea of Lando being emotionally fragile.

 

He's a young guy who wears his heart on his sleeve and is openly self-questioning, but that is far from the same thing.

[TomNokoe]

What is so egregious is that after Zandvoort you have Stella saying crazy things like "maybe Norris can win all of the remaining races like Vettel in 2013", and then the very next race Norris is on POLE and Verstappen 7TH.

Would it really have been a "team order" to order ask (lol) the drivers to temporarily not attack eachother after turn 1?

1. Norris qualified ahead
2. won the start
3. is ahead in the world championship
4. almost always has better race pace
5. is punching a hole for Piastri to slipstream

He was more than entitled to be protected by his teammate. It is common sense and sensible management, not a team order.

Edited by TomNokoe, 04 September 2024 - 10:27.

[cbo]

Norris needs to be significantly better than Piastri for team orders to be deployed. Currently, he is not.

F1 gets boring with team orders and boring is bad.

So they should be reserved to those special situations where a fluke makes driver 2 better placed than driver 1 and driver 1 has a clear road ahead towards a championship. McLaren is nowhere near that situation with Norris throwing away points left, right and center.

Bottom line, Norris has not earned the right to get the aid of team orders (yet) and Piastri is far too good to be subjected to the humility of being on the receiving end of said team orders.

Feel free to disagree 😄

[Dalton007]

They should have done it at Hungary. Lando will be kicking himself if he doesn't win it this year - partly his mistakes, partly the team's. 

[Gravelngrass]

For me, as someone who sees auto racing as a driver competition first and foremost, TOs have always been a sacrilege and should be forbidden again.
If you’re going to sacrifice the essence of racing, or, I should say, the very definition of it for prioritizing the interests of teams over those of spectators, then we might as well avoid any type of racing to conserve the cars and minimize risks.
If I wanted to see any kind of racing as a team sport, I’d rather watch the 4x100 relays. ..

[danmills]

If Lando is as emotionally fragile as you think he is, he’ll suffer more if he loses the championship without getting 100% support from the team, than if he loses it with No.1 status.

 

Those radio messages are going to come to haunt him telling Oscar he should hurry up that one time.

 

He's got to absolutely show he's streets ahead of Oscar to warrant the team support IMO which in the current trend isn't the case. What's gonna happen if he keeps fluffing up his race starts to a faster more racey team mate?

 

Getting your team mate in P1 to let you past is one thing. Using your team mate already in P2 is another.

 

Those radio messages might get rephrased back to him and he's gonna look very silly and meme worthy fast.

 

It would be wonderful if he gets it, I will absolutely cheer, but he's got to dominate Oscar to start calling these sort of shots.

 

Next race, if Lando is ahead, call it. Team orders.

[Clrnc]

What is so egregious is that after Zandvoort you have Stella saying crazy things like "maybe Norris can win all of the remaining races like Vettel in 2013", and then the very next race Norris is on POLE and Verstappen 7TH.

Would it really have been a "team order" to order ask (lol) the drivers to temporarily not attack eachother after turn 1?

1. Norris qualified ahead
2. won the start
3. is ahead in the world championship
4. almost always has better race pace
5. is punching a hole for Piastri to slipstream him.

He was more than entitled to be protected by his teammate. It is common sense and sensible management, not a team order.

Absolutely. Surprised how people can't see this. This is not even about Norris vs Piastri. It's about the driver that's most likely to be able to beat Max to the title. Put your weight behind him

[B17RYC]

Hey everyone! First time poster but long time lurker (going back to the "Silver Donkey" days  )

 

Voted "Yes" for both. After they got Oscar his first win in Hungary, McLaren should have have made the decision to fully back Lando for the WDC push. Can't have both drivers taking points off each other.

 

Lando overhauling the points deficit was always going to be tough, never mind the bigger gap Oscar has to Max. 

[TheFish]

I honestly don’t understand why they haven’t implemented them already. Piastri isn’t going to win the title, Lando has a small chance of doing so.

McLaren should be doing everything possible to win the titles. If they lose it by 2 points and they let Oscar finish ahead of Monza… absolute clown show.

Hungary was different imo, the team were absolutely right to let Oscar get his first GP win. Crazy if they don’t make him be the number 2 for the rest of the season though. Red Bull could be back to their best next year giving the team no chance of a title again… and they risk throwing away any chances of winning this season by letting them fight amongst each other.

[H0R]

Keith Collantine's analysis does nothing to further Norris' right on help from team orders:

https://www.racefans...n-to-the-title/

[AlexPrime]

When Oscar is out of it or, if he is far away, from Austin outward, yes.