481 replies to this topic

[InSearchOfThe]

Jak Crawford has a SL.
Herta isn't good enough.
Will Ferrari offer someone up?

[ATM]

No Colapinto yet? Unless he's already signed with some other current team, this must be manna from heaven for him.

[noikeee]

Everyone automatically assuming they'll have an American driver.. how many did Haas sign so far?

[Joseki]

Jak Crawford has a SL.
Herta isn't good enough.
Will Ferrari offer someone up?

I watch both F2/F3 and IndyCar and I'd take Herta over Crawford without any doubt.

[Goron3]

Whoever it is, they need to be comfortable with the fact that GM will be back of the grid most likely for the first couple of years as they get up to speed.

And then for 2028 they just need to hope the PU isn't too far behind.

[Viryfan]

Everyone automatically assuming they'll have an American driver.. how many did Haas sign so far?

Cadillac has 0 US drivers in WEC.
Cadillac is trying to push into the european market...
They're trying to sell high end hybrid or EV in Europe.

Edited by Viryfan, 26 November 2024 - 09:36.

[KWSN - DSM]

Everyone automatically assuming they'll have an American driver.. how many did Haas sign so far?

 

The Andretti connection make us think US driver.

[Stephane]

They should bring Bamber and Tandy. That'd be fun

[KWSN - DSM]

Whoever it is, they need to be comfortable with the fact that GM will be back of the grid most likely for the first couple of years as they get up to speed.

And then for 2028 they just need to hope the PU isn't too far behind.

 

Haas went 8th, 8th, 5th - I will argue a smaller team than what GM is giving us, no reason to presume GM will not be able to hit the ground running at same speed.

[Anja]

Everyone automatically assuming they'll have an American driver.. how many did Haas sign so far?

 

The thing is Andretti was always very clear about wanting an American driver, with Herta being the most obvious candidate. Now we'll have to see if it was just Michael's idea or if the new owners will stick with it. Gainbridge (Towriss' company) is Herta's main sponsor in IndyCar...

Edited by Anja, 26 November 2024 - 10:08.

[JvsKVB77]

Edited by JvsKVB77, 26 November 2024 - 10:34.

[Beri]

They should bring Bamber and Tandy. That'd be fun

 

Kyle Larson. He could then really see who is the better driver; Verstappen or him 

[Joseki]

2025

Red Bull: Verstappen-Lawson

VCARB: Tsunoda-TBC

 

I think the official confirmation of Lawson at RB also seals the deal for Tsunoda at VCARB. His contract expires at the end of next year and he systematically been passed on by Red Bull for the promotion: they confirmed Perez, tried Ricciardo, now promoted Lawson. They don't rate him and there may junior drivers Red Bull plans to promote in F1 (or even give the seat to Colapinto).

 

If I was Tsunoda I'd call my agent today and tell him to find me a seat for 2026 outside Red Bull before they boot me out.

[Junky]

2025

Red Bull: Verstappen-Lawson

VCARB: Tsunoda-TBC

 

I think the official confirmation of Lawson at RB also seals the deal for Tsunoda at VCARB. His contract expires at the end of next year and he systematically been passed on by Red Bull for the promotion: they confirmed Perez, tried Ricciardo, now promoted Lawson. They don't rate him and there may junior drivers Red Bull plans to promote in F1 (or even give the seat to Colapinto).

 

If I was Tsunoda I'd call my agent today and tell him to find me a seat for 2026 outside Red Bull before they boot me out.

But where? Because I can only see a possibility in Alpine, to be honest.

[Nathan]

Do they sell Cadillac's in Japan?

[Beri]

But where? Because I can only see a possibility in Alpine, to be honest.

Alpine, Haas, Sauber. All are possibilities if one of the drivers fail to impress.

[Alfisti]

The Tsunoda this is immensely simple. He goes to Aston as Honda's man or he is out. Really depends what they do with Stroll Jnr

[Joseki]

https://www.the-race...uki-tsunoda-go/

 

Horner:

“We're acutely aware that if we're not able to provide an opportunity for Yuki – being, in all honesty, this year [2025] - does it make sense [to keep him]? You can't have a driver in the support team for five years. You can't always be the bridesmaid. You've either got to let them go at that point or look at something different.”

 

Yeah, as I have been speculating ever since the first rumors of Lawson to Red Bull emerged, Tsunoda is being booted by VCARB after his contract expires.

Edited by Joseki, Yesterday, 09:26.

[Ncedi]

That wasn't in question...the question is why keep him in the first place for 2025? Yuki had options...Horner didn't want him so let him go to Audi or Haas or whoever wants him...

Red Bull could be stuffing another career of someone they didn't want because there aren't going to be many spaces in 2026.

Edited by Ncedi, Yesterday, 09:35.

[Joseki]

That wasn't in question...the question is why keep him in the first place for 2025? Yuki had options...Horner did want him so let him go to Audi or Haas or whoever wants him...

Red Bull could be stuffing another career of someone they didn't want because there aren't going to be many spaces in 2026.

They are keeping him because he will be a good benchmark for Hadjar next year and because they don't have another junior to promote.

[Anja]

The Tsunoda this is immensely simple. He goes to Aston as Honda's man or he is out. Really depends what they do with Stroll Jnr

 

Stroll is probably holding on with the hope of a Newey car being a monster. But if their 2026 is disappointing I could see both Aston drivers leaving F1, so even a third driver role there could mean something more in the future.

[IrvTheSwerve]

Tsunoda is just one of those average drivers that somehow manage to hang around for multiple years despite never really doing anything special…he’s just…there.

 

He won’t be missed.

[GhostR]

They don't rate him and there may junior drivers Red Bull plans to promote in F1 (or even give the seat to Colapinto).

 

I think they do rate him on a talent / speed basis. Where I think he struggles to get the promotion is they don't trust his mental stability if they were to promote him. Which brings me to:

 

 

That wasn't in question...the question is why keep him in the first place for 2025? 

 

Because he's a very useful benchmark. Any driver that can be close to Tsunoda as a rookie, or even beating him on a regular basis, and also show a good mental side to their approach becomes a potential RBR driver. If Ricciardo could have shown Mexico '23, Miami-sprint '24 type performances against Tsunoda every weekend, we wouldn't be talking about Lawson at RBR. Nor would we have had to wait so long for Perez to be booted. Lawson's got the gig because he was "close enough" to Tsunoda in the data, showed they something positive in how he applied himself, and thus they're looking at him as their best immediate option. I suspect the original reason for retaining Tsunoda into this year was that Horner was hoping Ricciardo would find his mojo, and Tsunoda would be a yardstick for Lawson or Hadjar in 2025. As it turns out, he's been used as a yardstick for Lawson this year, and likely Hadjar next season.

 

I have no doubt: if Lawson struggles and Hadjar comes in and starts beating Tsunoda regularly, there will be a mid-season swap.

[KWSN - DSM]

I think they do rate him on a talent / speed basis. Where I think he struggles to get the promotion is they don't trust his mental stability if they were to promote him. Which brings me to:

 

 

 

Because he's a very useful benchmark. Any driver that can be close to Tsunoda as a rookie, or even beating him on a regular basis, and also show a good mental side to their approach becomes a potential RBR driver. If Ricciardo could have shown Mexico '23, Miami-sprint '24 type performances against Tsunoda every weekend, we wouldn't be talking about Lawson at RBR. Nor would we have had to wait so long for Perez to be booted. Lawson's got the gig because he was "close enough" to Tsunoda in the data, showed they something positive in how he applied himself, and thus they're looking at him as their best immediate option. I suspect the original reason for retaining Tsunoda into this year was that Horner was hoping Ricciardo would find his mojo, and Tsunoda would be a yardstick for Lawson or Hadjar in 2025. As it turns out, he's been used as a yardstick for Lawson this year, and likely Hadjar next season.

 

I have no doubt: if Lawson struggles and Hadjar comes in and starts beating Tsunoda regularly, there will be a mid-season swap.

 

And if Lawson flops, and Tsunoda dominates Hadjar?

[Ncedi]

So let me get this straight, from the answers above, Yuki is a nothing special journeyman who's only there because of Honda. BUT is not so not special that if you can match him or beat him once in a while, then you must be something top tier?? These statements make no sense...

He's not good enough then you don't need anyone to match or beat...he's not a yardstick worth keeping. OR he actually is good enough but there are alternative and probably political reasons he hasn't been promoted. Either way...you don't want him so why not let him go where he is.

Edited by Ncedi, Yesterday, 10:08.

[sterlingfan2000]

If tsunoda is average what is Lawson ?

It's a political battle, For horner the chapter Honda is closed and will never be opened again.

[GhostR]

And if Lawson flops, and Tsunoda dominates Hadjar?

 

Then they have a problem. Maybe they will promote Tsunoda after all. Or they go outside their "pool" again. 

 

To be honest, I suspect they'll have bigger problems for 2026. I have a feeling Verstappen will leave Red Bull (to either Mercedes or Aston Martin or WEC) and trigger a lot of movement across the grid (similar to how Hamilton's move shook things up).

[balage06]

If tsunoda is average what is Lawson ?

 

But how can you fairly assess that at the moment? Tsunoda has 4 years of experience with the team, meanwhile Lawson had 11 races as a stand-in across two seasons.

[IrvTheSwerve]

If tsunoda is average what is Lawson ?

It's a political battle, For horner the chapter Honda is closed and will never be opened again.

They are at the very least equal, which says something when you compare their relative experience in F1.

[Anderis]

But how can you fairly assess that at the moment? Tsunoda has 4 years of experience with the team, meanwhile Lawson had 11 races as a stand-in across two seasons.

What we can assess at the moment is that Lawson was not quicker than Tsunoda by the end of 2024. That makes him very likely to be very far behind Verstappen in early 2025, which could shatter his confidence and prevent him from improving as much as he should to keep a seat at a top team (that's assuming he's ever had the talent to do so, which he has not proven so far- again, unable to outperform Tsunoda). Exactly what happened to Gasly and Albon in the past, except Gasly was actually the quickest Toro Rosso driver before his promotion and there weren't any precedents of Toro Rosso promotions failing in the main team so he was a logical choice, unlike Lawson.

Edited by Anderis, Yesterday, 11:21.

[Anderis]

They are at the very least equal, which says something when you compare their relative experience in F1.

At the very least equal?
 

Qualifying head to head:
Tsunoda 6-0 Lawson

Races head to head:
Tsunoda 4-1 Lawson

[IrvTheSwerve]

At the very least equal?
 

Qualifying head to head:
Tsunoda 6-0 Lawson

Races head to head:
Tsunoda 4-1 Lawson

Well look, I think they’re probably both a bit vanilla, but at this time I would rather see them take a punt on Lawson, who has looked competent during his stand-ins, rather than settle for a known mediocre driver in Tsunoda. At least there’s the potential for Lawson to improve.

Edited by IrvTheSwerve, Yesterday, 15:10.