638 replies to this topic

[juicy sushi]

I think the Milwaukee-Nashville switch is easy to say for us fans, based on one event back on the Mile vs a substitute race at an oval Indycar never intended to go back to.  I agree that the Nashville street race has been too much of a crashfest, but if the event was doing the numbers then I can see why they might want to wait on getting it back.  Creating a signature event takes time, and part of the process is going to require persistence in creating a consistency to the event so that it builds a reputation as the closer.  Chopping and changing every year in hyper reaction to what happened the previous year doesn't allow anything to build, so I can see why they would not be interested in doing that.

[FLB]

How do you manufacturer a proper ending to an Indycar season?  I am not sure we've ever really had one, to be honest.

We did, once. It's just that it turned out the absolute worst way imaginable (Vegas 2011). 

[juicy sushi]

We did, once. It's just that it turned out the absolute worst way imaginable (Vegas 2011). 

That was an attempt to make one, but due to the tragedy, I don't know if anyone has ever really tried to evaluate whether or nor the event itself was even on track to being a success?

[Jim Thurman]

CART had Laguna Seca, Tamiami Park, Caesar's Palace II and Phoenix as season closers, going back further, for USAC it was Phoenix or Riverside.

 

I don't think there's any way in the present media atmosphere/environment to make it a "big deal" now. You can artificially hype it, but that's about it.

 

Moving Milwaukee to mid-September is a complete non-starter, even more NFL related. Packers! Woo! Packers! 

[Risil]

I wonder if people going to the track really care if it's a season finale. When I've been to races I've never thought, hooray, the title will be decided right in front of me, let alone I'll wait till the end of the season before I go to a race in case there's some championship drama.

It would probably make me more likely to watch on TV but in that case the atmosphere is secondary to the competitive aspect. (Moreso during a title decider because there is hyperfocus on what happens on track.)

[andysaint]

Do any of the drivers really resonate with the American public? How many hero’s are there? I feel Indycar is missing a Mario Andretti, Nigel Mansell, Paul Tracy, Emerson Fittipaldi, Alex Zanardi, We all know that Dixon, Power, Newgarden, Palou etc are excellent drivers. But for me they don’t have the following for a proper superstar finale. It’s all a bit, tame

[juicy sushi]

CART had Laguna Seca, Tamiami Park, Caesar's Palace II and Phoenix as season closers, going back further, for USAC it was Phoenix or Riverside.

 

I don't think there's any way in the present media atmosphere/environment to make it a "big deal" now. You can artificially hype it, but that's about it.

 

Moving Milwaukee to mid-September is a complete non-starter, even more NFL related. Packers! Woo! Packers! 

Yeah, the lack of consistency shows there never really has been a consistent final round.  I agree in the present media world, it might be hard to make something a big deal, but really the only way is to have a sustainable, established Indycar event be the finale, and then hope to one day catch lightning in a bottle and then it takes off.  So, in that light, if you think that a Nashville street race is the long term best bet for that anchor, you grit your teeth for a few years and try to slowly build something sustainable.  If you don't, then you need to move on, but that involves starting from zero again.  

 

I agree, the Milwaukee Mile vs Opening Day Packers is really not a winning bet.  So while it seems very tempting, it is perhaps not the best idea to throw away an invested promoter in Nashville for the sake of taking a wild swing based on one year of vibes at a revived Milwaukee.  

[juicy sushi]

Do any of the drivers really resonate with the American public? How many hero’s are there? I feel Indycar is missing a Mario Andretti, Nigel Mansell, Paul Tracy, Emerson Fittipaldi, Alex Zanardi, We all know that Dixon, Power, Newgarden, Palou etc are excellent drivers. But for me they don’t have the following for a proper superstar finale. It’s all a bit, tame

There hasn't really been a hero driver for the American public in 20 years, in any series.  There are no racing superstars anymore, the sport as a whole has become too niche for that.

[andysaint]

There hasn't really been a hero driver for the American public in 20 years, in any series. There are no racing superstars anymore, the sport as a whole has become too niche for that.

Yes I would agree with that. I don’t think NASCAR or Indycar are doing each other or both of the series’ any favours in growing their product. It would be interesting to see what Liberty would do with Indycar

[WonderboyF1]

Said to my wife that was the end of the Indycar season and she found it rather hard to figure out in her brain. See you in 6 months…

[loki]

Yes I would agree with that. I don’t think NASCAR or Indycar are doing each other or both of the series’ any favours in growing their product. It would be interesting to see what Liberty would do with Indycar

Liberty picked low hanging fruit Ecclestone left behind.  Opening the US market a bit though much of the time the ratings aren’t any better than Indycar.  They had to promote or co promote in the US as no one other than COTA is interested in hosting a race here.  Doesn’t make economic sense.  Globally while they’ve increased revenue the viewership hasn’t increased proportional to the revenue.  Liberty did the obvious things but aside from that I wouldn’t say they were blazing a new trail.

[Gareth]

I wonder if people going to the track really care if it's a season finale. When I've been to races I've never thought, hooray, the title will be decided right in front of me, let alone I'll wait till the end of the season before I go to a race in case there's some championship drama.

It would probably make me more likely to watch on TV but in that case the atmosphere is secondary to the competitive aspect. (Moreso during a title decider because there is hyperfocus on what happens on track.)

It wasn’t a championship finale, but I did see Lewis win number 6, and it meant a lot to be there to see it in person.

(Was pure luck - had the tickets long before it looked possible)

[Gareth]

I didn't quite catch the final points tally: What would the points be like without the St.Pete Penske P2P issue? What would the gap between Palou and McLaughlin be?

Edit: I've just seen it. 39 points.


McLaughlin lost 35 points in St.Pete and Palou gained 3 moving up the ranks. So, without St.Pete, McLaughlin loses the championship by one freaking point.

I don’t know Indy Car well enough to know how they handle team orders, but in this scenario would Penske have gotten Newgarden to let McLaughlin go by to win the championship?

[loki]

CART had Laguna Seca, Tamiami Park, Caesar's Palace II and Phoenix as season closers, going back further, for USAC it was Phoenix or Riverside.

 

I don't think there's any way in the present media atmosphere/environment to make it a "big deal" now. You can artificially hype it, but that's about it.

 

Moving Milwaukee to mid-September is a complete non-starter, even more NFL related. Packers! Woo! Packers! 

The fair is the perfect event to piggy back the race.  While some well meaning people here have offered suggestions it often lacks the history and perspective of how things became this way.  Combined with a lack of knowledge of the market while pitched in good faith most of the time it’s ground that’s been covered for decades.

[jonpollak]

Yeah, Bibberty.
No great shakes really.

It would be like selling to some capitol investment firm who read the prospectus upside down. They would be clueless and couldn’t care less.

Jp

[loki]

That was an attempt to make one, but due to the tragedy, I don't know if anyone has ever really tried to evaluate whether or nor the event itself was even on track to being a success?

It was the most attended Indycar event at LVMS since I moved here in 2005.  When it paired with trucks there were only a few thousand of us at the end of the race.  Downtown didn’t do much better though difficult to tell if it was normal traffic downtown or due to the race.  The primary hotels downtown at the time reported fewer visitors and less revenue than a normal weekend.  Even if the promoter hadn’t gone bankrupt likely it wouldn't have happened the next year.  It’s likely the reason the city declined to entertain an F1 race when approached pre pandemic before the county was willing to provide the Strip.  Covid hit, international visitor numbers tanked (and still haven’t fully recovered) so the Strip became an option.  An Indycar street race won’t happen in Vegas and the speedway is profiled so it’s too dangerous.

[Peat]

https://twitter.com/...744207937618206

 

Wowsers trousers!

Herta just clipped Robb with his front wing end fence as he took the lead. So close to disaster. 

[loki]

I don’t know Indy Car well enough to know how they handle team orders, but in this scenario would Penske have gotten Newgarden to let McLaughlin go by to win the championship?

Each car is its own team.  For example if one car makes Leaders Circle the other(s) have to do it on their own (hence Daly at Juncos).  It’s not like F1 where they combine though sometimes they do.  It’s likely JoNew would have ceded a spot to another Penske as long as he wasn't in the hunt.

[prommer]

Just think, if it were still the IRL, and it was still 1996, we'd just be getting started!

[Henri Greuter]

CART had Laguna Seca, Tamiami Park, Caesar's Palace II and Phoenix as season closers, going back further, for USAC it was Phoenix or Riverside.

 

I don't think there's any way in the present media atmosphere/environment to make it a "big deal" now. You can artificially hype it, but that's about it.

 

Moving Milwaukee to mid-September is a complete non-starter, even more NFL related. Packers! Woo! Packers! 

 

 

Dare I mention that piece of crap primarily built for NASCAR, by now fortunately gone?  Fontana?

 

I still feel so sad about 25 years ago.....
 

Edited by Henri Greuter, 16 September 2024 - 19:09.

[jonpollak]

The-Race mistakenly reporting that Colton has been given a Superlicence

 

 

Jp

[Sterzo]

We've probably done it to death already, but how you can win an Indycar race containing superlicence holders and not qualify for a licence yourself is beyond me...

[Lemnpiper]

   As we sit back to ponder the past year  i am struck by 2 things.

 

 

    1    Will Alex Palou  end up doin to Scott Dixon   what Jimmy Johnson ended up doin to Jeff Gordon  by winning championships that Scott should have won?

 

    2     Are we seeing  Ganassi's decision  end his NASCAR   involvement now help his INDY Car  program ? 

 

         I think so , which could mean if Palou stays he could be the one to challenge Foyt's championship total  and not Dixon

 

         Dixon  chance of catching  Foyt's 67 career wins total may have already ended.

 

   

 

     As for a  season ending race  an oval is needed  but where?  (400 miles at a track where lap speeds are in the 175 mph range might do it, but is there even a track that fits that criteria?)

 

 

        Paul

[paulb]

I wonder if people going to the track really care if it's a season finale. When I've been to races I've never thought, hooray, the title will be decided right in front of me, let alone I'll wait till the end of the season before I go to a race in case there's some championship drama.

It would probably make me more likely to watch on TV but in that case the atmosphere is secondary to the competitive aspect. (Moreso during a title decider because there is hyperfocus on what happens on track.)

I cared when I saw Power win his first title at Fontana. It added an element of intrigue to the entire race, which we were unfortunately denied at Nashville.

 

I second Lemnpiper’s point that an oval is needed for the season ender. After all, ovals are what distinguish Indycar from all other top levels of racing.

[PayasYouRace]

The-Race mistakenly reporting that Colton has been given a Superlicence



Jp

So is Colton also mistaken or did The Race fabricate the quote?

[jonpollak]

Dunno but read the thread and come up with your interpretation of this issue.

https://x.com/wearet...rQm55GKcaIwUsbg

Jp

[Risil]

A sure sign of a transparent and functional system

[jonpollak]

And THAT’S just the tip of the iceberg.
Jp

[PayasYouRace]

Do you have to be logged into X to see replies?

[Junky]

Do any of the drivers really resonate with the American public? How many hero’s are there? I feel Indycar is missing a Mario Andretti, Nigel Mansell, Paul Tracy, Emerson Fittipaldi, Alex Zanardi, We all know that Dixon, Power, Newgarden, Palou etc are excellent drivers. But for me they don’t have the following for a proper superstar finale. It’s all a bit, tame

Maybe the last one was Helio Castroneves, because of Dancing with the Stars.

[Risil]

Do any of the drivers really resonate with the American public? How many hero’s are there? I feel Indycar is missing a Mario Andretti, Nigel Mansell, Paul Tracy, Emerson Fittipaldi, Alex Zanardi, We all know that Dixon, Power, Newgarden, Palou etc are excellent drivers. But for me they don’t have the following for a proper superstar finale. It’s all a bit, tame

Of those people I would guess only Mario Andretti had a broad recognition among the American general public. I don't think there's any use expecting the culture of the 1960s to come back.

Although some of the more recent winners might struggle to be recognized in Indianapolis, which is more concerning.

[Jim Thurman]

Yeah, the lack of consistency shows there never really has been a consistent final round. 

Thinking about it, motorsports doesn't do "traditional season closer" well. Name a signature season closing event in any series? Yas Marina? C'mon   F1 has had many locations for season closing events since Monza and Watkins Glen were in that spot for about a decade each.

 

NASCAR has moved theirs all over as well: Ontario, Riverside, Atlanta, Homestead. Many tracks prior to Ontario. What I gave for CART lasted longer at one place (Laguna Seca). USAC/CART at Phoenix was lengthiest, but even that had a few year gap for Riverside.

 

Motorsports has traditional dates for certain events, and even some of those have moved around. Oddly, there were some long standing "season opening" events. Season closing? Not so much.  

[Risil]

You rightly discount the weird attempts from the IRL and World Endurance Championship to shift around their seasons to make the Indy 500 and Le Mans the final championship race.

[juicy sushi]

Thinking about it, motorsports doesn't do "traditional season closer" well. Name a signature season closing event in any series? Yas Marina? C'mon   F1 has had many locations for season closing events since Monza and Watkins Glen were in that spot for about a decade each.

 

NASCAR has moved theirs all over as well: Ontario, Riverside, Atlanta, Homestead. Many tracks prior to Ontario. What I gave for CART lasted longer at one place (Laguna Seca). USAC/CART at Phoenix was lengthiest, but even that had a few year gap for Riverside.

 

Motorsports has traditional dates for certain events, and even some of those have moved around. Oddly, there were some long standing "season opening" events. Season closing? Not so much.  

Agreed, there has been a lack of one across the sport, and it seems like a historically large oversight.  Given the way other sports have made such use of the season-ending event to drive narrative and attention, it seems like a very big miss that no series has really exploited.  The closest to a proper season ender has been ALMS/IMSA with the Petit Le Mans now going for a quarter of a century, but IMSA lacks the heft of the other series if we're honest.

 

If Indycar have decided that the way for the to correct this is to play the long game with a street race in Nashville, ok, but I'd like to hear someone say it explicitly.  I might also want to have chosen something more permanent as a bit of insurance for long term sustainability.

[Risil]

There are historical reasons (the relatively late development of a race series as an entity that's more than the sum of its parts) and climatic ones (in the northern hemisphere almost all the events you'd want to go to take place in May-August), I'm guessing.

 

Actually the climatic reasons for the best events taking place in spring and high summer may be quasi-spiritual too, but that is more OvDrone's department than mine.

[paulb]

Sweet article https://racer.com/20...victory-of-all/

[jonpollak]

Barry is an amazing human being. Always has been as well.

Surprised the article didn’t mention his son Iron Man Michael who died from acute myeloid leukemia in 2011.

The support Chip and the team gives their personnel is first class at all times.

Yet another harrowing chapter in the life of the Wanser family’s story.

Jp

[Jim Thurman]

There's one answer to the "big season ending event" conundrum, and one answer only...

 

Hawaiian Super Prix! 

[jonpollak]

Inside Mt Haleakalā,
 
No, that's not feasable is it,no...
 
I know...
Inside Diamond Head !!!
 
One of the first gigs I ever did was there
 
Jp