433 replies to this topic

[sketchy2001]

You don’t have to wonder. Checo did much “worse” two corners prior.

Tells you all you need to know.

 

I don't remember him driving in to Leclerc and ending his race... maybe I missed that.

[F1 Mike]

I find myself wondering how many people would change their views on this incident if the drivers positions had been reversed

...after all "Checco's gonna Checo"

I reckon Perez would've been absolutely fine if the positions were reversed. I'm confident Sainz would have avoided contact in that scenario

[Barty]

I don't remember him driving in to Leclerc and ending his race... maybe I missed that.

 

Correct, however, he defended his lead by moving over on Leclerc much more than Sainz did. However, Leclerc did not drive into Perez and end his race.

[PayasYouRace]

I don't remember him driving in to Leclerc and ending his race... maybe I missed that.

That’s because he drove into Sainz.

[chrcol]

I think you need to watch that part of the race again. Sainz was fully ahead after his pass with Perez tucked in behind him before carnage corner

That wasnt shown in the analysis clip I posted.  I can only comment on what I am looking at.

 

But even if we state Sainz had completed an overtake prior to the clip (the corner and following straight), the fact remains half of Perez car was alongside half of Sainz car and they were on a straight.  My opinion stays the same, a half a car lead does not give you the right do whatever line you want, you have to be mindful and provide space to the other car.

 

If we didnt have these principles then it would just be crash city.

 

It was sainz drifting, not perez, and that leads me to disagree with Palmer, I dont understand why people cannot accept my opinion is different, just accept it and accept we disagree.

 

So to summarise (again).

 

The cars were effectively alongside, with Sainz half a car ahead. 

Perez up until the last moment was driving straight forward, just before the contact he also moved left. 

Sainz was drifting left, and just before the contact increased the intensity of the left. 

 

If we were to consider what Sainz did as normal, then on every straight overtake, all the lead car needs to do is wait for someone to commit, then drift over and cut off the path of the other car alongside them.

 

I again repeat Perez holds blame as well for not realising it is better to yield than to crash.

Edited by chrcol, 19 September 2024 - 13:31.

[Deeq]

That wasnt shown in the analysis clip I posted. I can only comment on what I am looking at.

But even if we state Sainz had completed an overtake prior to the clip (the corner and following straight), the fact remains half of Perez car was alongside half of Sainz car and they were on a straight. My opinion stays the same, a half a car lead does not give you the right do whatever line you want, you have to be mindful and provide space to the other car.

If we didnt have these principles then it would just be crash city.

It was sainz drifting, not perez, and that leads me to disagree with Palmer, I dont understand why people cannot accept my opinion is different, just accept it and accept we disagree.

So to summarise (again).

The cars were effectively alongside, with Sainz half a car ahead.
Perez up until the last moment was driving straight forward, just before the contact he also moved left.
Sainz was drifting left, and just before the contact increased the intensity of the left.

If we were to consider what Sainz did as normal, then on every straight overtake, all the lead car needs to do is wait for someone to commit, then drift over and cut off the path of the other car alongside them.

I again repeat Perez holds blame as well for not realising it is better to yield than to crash.

Then you hold Perez solely responsible for Monaco crash?

[chrcol]

Then you hold Perez solely responsible for Monaco crash?

Have I held Sainz solely responsible for this crash?

 

You will need to show me the Monaco incident for me to give a comment on it.

[F1 Mike]

That wasnt shown in the analysis clip I posted. I can only comment on what I am looking at.

It was in the action replays during the coverage. Did you watch the race or only clips on the internet?

[Deeq]

You will need to show me the Monaco incident for me to give a comment on it.

Sainz gave space to Perez hence theoretically less culpable.
I need not to hand held you. Consult F1TV if you want & ne your comments are not that necessary at all to discuss this incident.

Edited by Deeq, 19 September 2024 - 13:51.

[chrcol]

It was in the action replays during the coverage. Did you watch the race or only clips on the internet?

When I watch the race, I watch it, I then analyse afterwards from clips.

[chrcol]

Sainz gave space to Perez hence theoretically less culpable.
I need not to hand held you. Consult F1TV if you want & ne your comments are not that necessary at all to discuss this incident.

If you want me to comment, then provide the footage, its not my desire to talk about another incident, it is yours.

[Peeko]

I don't remember him driving in to Leclerc and ending his race... maybe I missed that.

That's because Leclerc reacted to Perez's defence. If Charles just drove straight like Perez did to Carlos their race is over, and Sainz was hardly defending.

[pup]

If you want me to comment, then provide the footage, its not my desire to talk about another incident, it is yours.

Gotta love this attitude.  You admit that you don't know what you're talking about, yet pretend to lecture others.  And when they call you on it, you tell them it's their job to educate you.

 

No one owes you anything, buddy; except maybe a little click on the ignore button.  

[Barty]

 

If we were to consider what Sainz did as normal, then on every straight overtake, all the lead car needs to do is wait for someone to commit, then drift over and cut off the path of the other car alongside them.

 

 

Correct, as long as the lead driver leaves at least a car's width to the edge of the track. They have the whole track to use for attack as well as defense.

[kralizec]

There is no rule that says that cars must drive parallel to the walls, or to any other reference for that matter, in a straight. What happens if the walls are not parallel to each other, because the track gets narrower?

Of course you won't want to deviate too much, lest you crash into them... but the rules just say to drive "predictably", and leave on car space at the edge, and that was more than fulfilled.

[MikeTekRacing]

That's because Leclerc reacted to Perez's defence. If Charles just drove straight like Perez did to Carlos their race is over, and Sainz was hardly defending.

no, that's because as soon as Leclerc made it clear he is not moving Checo stopped squeezing. 

[catent]

Gotta love this attitude. You admit that you don't know what you're talking about, yet pretend to lecture others. And when they call you on it, you tell them it's their job to educate you.

No one owes you anything, buddy; except maybe a little click on the ignore button.

No one owes anyone anything, right? Does that include their opinion on an incident from a different race, months ago?

The poster didn’t demand anything, let alone to be educated. The poster said, ‘if you want me to comment on a different, unrelated incident, then provide the footage of that incident’ (since the other person wishes to discuss it).

I don’t see someone lecturing (any more than anyone else), but I do see someone sharing their opinion on an online forum (that’s very much the point). I also don’t see someone claiming to not actually know anything (as you claim), but rather someone who has the humility to realize their opinion is just that.

Given your various comments on the wing-flexing matter, perhaps accusing others of ignorance and incomplete knowledge of facts isn’t the best look.

Edited by catent, 19 September 2024 - 15:42.

[MikeTekRacing]

Correct, however, he defended his lead by moving over on Leclerc much more than Sainz did. However, Leclerc did not drive into Perez and end his race.

but stopped short of hitting Leclerc and stopped squeezing him when Leclerc did not move

[Peeko]

no, that's because as soon as Leclerc made it clear he is not moving Checo stopped squeezing. 

Wrong. Checo stopped when he realized he was going to put Leclerc over the curb if he didn't. Do we need to post Gareth's pics again showing Leclerc never held his line and reacted to Checo moving in on him? Why was it ok for Checo to squeeze Charles but not ok for Sainz to squeeze Perez? Even though he wasn't.

Edited by Peeko, 19 September 2024 - 16:05.

[Bleu]

Why didn’t they red flag and restart?

 

There was no chance to restart even with red flag. The penultimate lap would have ended when drivers come to the pits and then they would finish when they reach the grid.

[Barty]

That wasnt shown in the analysis clip I posted.  I can only comment on what I am looking at.

 

Yes, it was. 0:18-0:24 in the breakdown by Palmer.

[Clrnc]

https://www.motorspo...crash/10655769/

Afterall it's really a racing incident. 50-50 blame for both.

[prty]

https://www.motorspo...crash/10655769/

Afterall it's really a racing incident. 50-50 blame for both.

Not really.

[baddog]

no, that's because as soon as Leclerc made it clear he is not moving Checo stopped squeezing. 

 

That is just not true at all. Leclerc moves a full car width to the left in response to Perez movement, which is also much more aggressive than Sainz movement was. 

[flyboym3]

https://youtube.com/...M0E8mvy8uriGy6r

This team and drivers are doing their best to make them unlikeable.

Edited by flyboym3, 19 September 2024 - 22:11.

[MikeTekRacing]

neah, haters are going to selectively pick things to hate and reinforce their hate

nothing new under the sun

[MikeTekRacing]

That is just not true at all. Leclerc moves a full car width to the left in response to Perez movement, which is also much more aggressive than Sainz movement was. 

Leclerc moves as a choice of his.

The moment he DOES NOT move Checo stops squeezing him not to crash.

They played chicken and Leclerc wasn't going to have it. Checo did stop when Leclerc stopped, perfectly aware of where Leclerc's car is.

 

Sainz is somehow not responsible because Checo had a better view from behind. Funny how Checo can see a minimal overlap in his mirros and stop shy of hitting Leclerc but Sainz slowly drifts into another car completly ignoring it

[pup]

Leclerc moves as a choice of his.

The moment he DOES NOT move Checo stops squeezing him not to crash.

They played chicken and Leclerc wasn't going to have it. Checo did stop when Leclerc stopped, perfectly aware of where Leclerc's car is.

 This is like trying to describe the motion of the planets under the assumption that the center of the solar system is one of Jupiter's moons.

[Kao18]

https://youtube.com/...M0E8mvy8uriGy6r

This team and drivers are doing their best to make them unlikeable.

 

You mean like this team and drivers:

 

https://youtu.be/vjd...ure=shared&t=48

[Peeko]

Leclerc moves as a choice of his.

The moment he DOES NOT move Checo stops squeezing him not to crash.

They played chicken and Leclerc wasn't going to have it. Checo did stop when Leclerc stopped, perfectly aware of where Leclerc's car is.

 

Sainz is somehow not responsible because Checo had a better view from behind. Funny how Checo can see a minimal overlap in his mirros and stop shy of hitting Leclerc but Sainz slowly drifts into another car completly ignoring it

Because Leclerc reacted to Checo's squeeze. Its pretty simple really. Don't understand how you don't see this. If Perez put in as much effort to avoid Sainz as Leclerc did to avoid Perez there is no contact. Physics 101.
 

[MikeTekRacing]

Because Leclerc reacted to Checo's squeeze. Its pretty simple really. Don't understand how you don't see this. If Perez put in as much effort to avoid Sainz as Leclerc did to avoid Perez there is no contact. Physics 101.
 

You can't know that. Perez actually STOPPED squeezing Charles after Charles stopped moving.

Sainz did not stop. How do you know he would hav estopped if Perez would have moved an extra 50cm? 

[ClubmanGT]

You can't know that. Perez actually STOPPED squeezing Charles after Charles stopped moving.

Sainz did not stop. How do you know he would hav estopped if Perez would have moved an extra 50cm? 

 

How do you know he wouldn't have?

[pup]

You can't know that. Perez actually STOPPED squeezing Charles after Charles stopped moving.
Sainz did not stop. How do you know he would hav estopped if Perez would have moved an extra 50cm?

You should be a trial lawyer / “Ladies and gentleman of the jury, it’s quite clear that my client stopped killing the victim after she stopped living.”

[Peeko]

You can't know that. Perez actually STOPPED squeezing Charles after Charles stopped moving.

Sainz did not stop. How do you know he would hav estopped if Perez would have moved an extra 50cm? 

OK, so you're admitting Charles adjusted his line. Perez didn't even do that much against Sainz. Tells you all you need to know.

Edited by Peeko, 21 September 2024 - 02:19.