26 replies to this topic

[RainyAfterlifeDaylight]

I might be wrong but It looks like the gaps at the front are getting closer.

What do you think?

Multiple voting is available ...

[RekF1]

No offense intended but the first three options are the same.

[PayasYouRace]

Yes for all those reasons which might or might not be the same.

And if you’ve answered “no”, well done, your time machine works, but it’s not 2023 anymore. Four teams are winning on pace this year.

[TheFish]

4 teams being fastest on different weekends is great and what we were promised in 2022.

Feels daft that we’re changing the rules in 2026 again and likely going back to one team dominating.

[PayasYouRace]

4 teams being fastest on different weekends is great and what we were promised in 2022.

Feels daft that we’re changing the rules in 2026 again and likely going back to one team dominating.

You don’t want to end up in a situation where the rules get set in stone and nothing ever changes. Plus, everyone complains about the cars being too big, too heavy, etc. f1 needs a refresh every few years, and with the current sporting and commercial rules, it’s unlikely we’ll get domination for very long.

[Clatter]

4 teams being fastest on different weekends is great and what we were promised in 2022.

Feels daft that we’re changing the rules in 2026 again and likely going back to one team dominating.

Too many people expected the new rules to actually have a big affect from the very get go in 2022. It was always going to take time, and who knows what will happen with the 2026 reset. It's not that unusual to see a team get it right and run away with the championship, then everyone is playing catchup again.

[1player]

I voted "all of the above", plus I'd add "the Horner fiasco killing any momentum Red Bull had"

[LolaB0860]

Feels daft that we’re changing the rules in 2026 again and likely going back to one team dominating.

There's always Indycar if you want old spec cars with very little changes year by year. Or WEC if looks and closeness of excitment (or something) are the most important aspects. But this is supposed to be pinnacle of racing, so rejuvenating change is not only necessary in the sporting side, but also technologically in order to keep up with advancements in auto industry.

Edited by LolaB0860, 17 September 2024 - 10:02.

[messy]

I think Red Bull ultimately victims of their own success - they peaked early with their car concept and developed it better than anyone else so they hit their ceiling quicker, and at that point suddenly the upgrades stop working quite as effectively. Newey leaving probably didn't help, probably the cost cap thing too because that has a knock on effect on those later upgrades, and other teams struggling early on have the time and opportunity to eventually get on top of their concepts and get them working well, but given they're coming from further back and starting later, they reach their development ceiling later, probably in this case much later.

Red Bull's 2022 car and subsequent development of has been amazing, one of the greatest cars in F1 history surely.

[Risil]

This year feels like what the battle behind Red Bull was like in 2023.

[RainyAfterlifeDaylight]

Honestly I was thinking "Yes, because of Adrian Newey taking a sabbatical" option would surpass the others.

[Beri]

This year feels like what the battle behind Red Bull was like in 2023.

 

Imagine the disappointment if Red Bull will finally get their updates working. Basically they are running the launch spec already all season.

[Risil]

I'm sure that's not literally true. But they took a step forward in Baku, which of course meant the gaps at the front got closer still.

[Beri]

Okay, strictly spoken youre right. But imagine them now running away with it after the next updates, inbound for Austin.. this, up until now, fantastic season would end in such an anti climax of huge proportions. Im not sure many of us can handle that.

[MikeTekRacing]

I think Red Bull ultimately victims of their own success - they peaked early with their car concept and developed it better than anyone else so they hit their ceiling quicker, and at that point suddenly the upgrades stop working quite as effectively. Newey leaving probably didn't help, probably the cost cap thing too because that has a knock on effect on those later upgrades, and other teams struggling early on have the time and opportunity to eventually get on top of their concepts and get them working well, but given they're coming from further back and starting later, they reach their development ceiling later, probably in this case much later.

Red Bull's 2022 car and subsequent development of has been amazing, one of the greatest cars in F1 history surely.

The rules are set up that they punish early success and they help catch up. Which is not bad, but it's actually intended by the regulations.

[NewMrMe]

I have gone for stable regulations because historically the grid typically gets closer after a period of stability in the rules. The cost cap and wind tunnel restrictions are probably having an input but is impossible to tell if so and how much.

[Anderis]

Sometimes the gaps may get closer by sheer chance. Each year each team gets their car more right or more wrong and sometimes it means convergence, sometimes divergence.

 

I think the long term trend since at least the 80-ties is that the teams are getting closer to each other. It may sometimes not feel like it because due to better reliability and race operations the teams are better at turning whatever advantage they have into race wins more consistently but despite how relentless Red Bull were at winning races in 2023, the lap time advantage they had over the next car in particular weekends wasn't even half of what was relatively common in the 80-ties and the 90-ties.

 

Cost cap? On paper it feels like it should be having an effect but Ferrari, Red Bull and Mercedes were big spenders without the cap anyway so is this really an answer in this specific case? I'm not quite sure if McLaren would have the funds to keep up or not. If not, then perhaps it's helping.

Stable regulations? 2009 Belgian GP had all 15 drivers within less than 8 tenths of each other in Q2, 7 or 8 teams out of 10 hunting a race win on merit at least once during the year. So stable regulations is never the sole answer.

 

I think it's always a multitude of factors, not something a simple poll will be able to exhaust in terms of explanations.

[George Costanza]

You don’t want to end up in a situation where the rules get set in stone and nothing ever changes. Plus, everyone complains about the cars being too big, too heavy, etc. f1 needs a refresh every few years, and with the current sporting and commercial rules, it’s unlikely we’ll get domination for very long.

F1 always has domination periods. No matter what.

And historically domination periods do change the rules.

Edited by George Costanza, 20 September 2024 - 02:31.

[sportyskells]

Erm where the build up thread there practice today and no one has done a thread again

[PayasYouRace]

Erm where the build up thread there practice today and no one has done a thread again

I’ve rushed one through, but as always, nobody it stopping you from doing it yourself.

[kumo7]

the last year was won by one car, but the end results were not so much apart. Some were very close and we loved the results. if you ask me the reason as to why Red bull is not pulling away like it did the last year the answer is Newey’s departure.
it was just 2023 when Alonso came in fourth of the championship. Time flys.

[Kao18]

I propose to add: 'Yes, because of flexi wings' as an option.

[1player]

Flexi wings don't explain how Ferrari found enough speed to fight at the top with McLaren, nor explain how Red Bull lost all theirs in comparison to everybody else.

So it's flexi wings, asymmetric brakes and whatever Ferrari are doing under the hood

[noikeee]

F1 always has domination periods. No matter what.

And historically domination periods do change the rules.

This logic has been upside down for the past couple of decades.

New regulations come in, someone gets it right and the others don't, there's domination. The sport panics and announces new rules to come in in 3 or 4 years time. By the time those years have passed, the other teams have catched up and there's no domination anymore, but it's time for the new rules to come in. Someone gets it right and the others don't.......

[RainyAfterlifeDaylight]

Adrian Newey has been in Formula1 since 1988.

 

In his 36 years of involvement in Formula1, his designed cars have won twelve World Constructors' and thirteen World Drivers' championships.

 

25 championships in 36 years!

Edited by RainyAfterlifeDaylight, 03 October 2024 - 08:42.

[Clatter]

F1 always has domination periods. No matter what.

And historically domination periods do change the rules.

Historically a change of rules often leads to domination.

[Clatter]

Adrian Newey has been in Formula1 since 1988.

In his 36 years of involvement in Formula1, his designed cars have won twelve World Constructors' and thirteen World Drivers' championships.

25 championships in 36 years!

And at 3 different teams.