64 replies to this topic

[TerryS]

for interest

 

Disasters That Changed The World Of Motorsport (msn.com)

[WonderWoman61]

Looks interesting

[Allen Brown]

Advert-filled clickbait

[BRG]

Advert-filled clickbait

Yes, and anything that shouts "changed the world" is usually garbage.  I saw a Youtube vid about the late Ken Block that claimed he had "changed motorsport".  Nope, he was minor figure on the fringes of the sport who had zero real impact.

 

Things that genuinely changed our sport were not single big events.  They were changes of direction such as rear mounted engines, wings,  ground effect, gradual safety improvements, excessive budgets, TV coverage and so on.

[Manfred Cubenoggin]

Bernie Ecclestone.

[uechtel]

The only one that comes into my mind that did really change "the world" (in the sense of a radical change and not only some minor improvements to the current format) was the Paris-Madrid race of 1903, which put an end to traditional town-to-town racing. Unfortunately they missed that one out...

[Glengavel]

I'm not sure Niki Lauda's accident really changed anything other than to remove the Nürburgring from the F1 championship? That might be seen as disastrous by some, I suppose. Stewart's first lap accident at Spa in 1966 was more instrumental in bringing about change despite Stewart emerging relatively unscathed.

[sabrejet]

Things that genuinely changed our sport were not single big events.  They were changes of direction such as rear mounted engines, wings,  ground effect, gradual safety improvements, excessive budgets, TV coverage and so on.

 

So the Can-Am then.

[E1pix]

The Lockerbie Air Disaster completely and singly killed the US Formula Super Vee pro series after a more than 20 year run.

[Bikr7549]

I was at first surprised that no one mentioned the 1955 Le Mans disaster in this post. I had never really looked at the details of that until today, and while it was a terrible disaster, the long term effects seem to be minimal, and far less than I would have supposed. The halting of racing in Switzerland appears to be the only long term effect, along with some Le Mans rules changes.

[Catalina Park]

The biggest disaster in motorsport is the invention of 'top 10 listicles'.

[john aston]

If WW2  was a disaster - and it's hard to argue it wasn't - then it changed motorsport profoundly. Not only in the technical innovations it stimulated but the societal change among a generation which had lived through it and now wanted to enjoy itself. In the UK at least , the availability of scores of  bomber (mainly) and fighter aerodromes enabled racing to happen at far more venues than ever before . 

[sabrejet]

I'd say Covid too then: it created scores of online streaming channels, many of which were free-to-view and still are today. It's opened up access to branches of the sport which had been fairly niche before.

[P.Dron]

Hawthorn appears as "Hawthorne", yet again.

[B Squared]

Hawthorn appears as "Hawthorne", yet again.

Is the misspelling of his name on the list of the 10 disasters in motorsports?

[small block]

The introduction of one-make racing series.

[Charlieman]

The introduction of one-make racing series.

It seemed all right for a long time after the early Bugatti or ERA one-make races.

[BRG]

The introduction of one-make racing series.

Certainly changed the face of motorsport, but was it a disaster?  I wouldn't say so, if anything it may have saved it by providing relatively cheap entry points for new comers to the sport and keeping manufacturers interested in the lower echelons.

Edited by BRG, 29 September 2024 - 09:54.

[pete53]

I was at first surprised that no one mentioned the 1955 Le Mans disaster in this post. I had never really looked at the details of that until today, and while it was a terrible disaster, the long term effects seem to be minimal, and far less than I would have supposed. The halting of racing in Switzerland appears to be the only long term effect, along with some Le Mans rules changes.

Me too. I don't have much contemporary documentation to go by, but I rather think that the accident, and in particular the resulting carnage, was considered to be a freak occurrence and , therefore, unlikely to be repeated and consequently required no particular action. Likewise Monza 1961,  when eleven spectators were killed when von Trips' Ferrari brushed along the spectator's enclosure. For many years afterwards, on circuits all around the world,  spectator enclosures remained very close to the action with nothing to prevent a similar tragedy happening.

[D-Type]

What Le Mans 1955, Mille Miglia 1957, and Monza 1961 did do was raise awareness of the issue of spectator safety, particularly in the litigation-prone USA.

Edited by D-Type, 29 September 2024 - 13:26.

[B Squared]

What Le Mans 1955, Mille Miglia 1957, and Monza 1961 did do was raise awareness of the issue of spectator safety, particularly in the litigation-prone USA.

Le Mans 55 happened within a couple of weeks of Bill Vukovich getting killed at Indianapolis, so that put even more light upon it in the us. I have a Speed Age magazine from that era that has an article about the US government trying to get involved in banning the sport.

[E1pix]

I suspect James Dean being killed that September also helped not at all.

[Jim Thurman]

Le Mans 55 happened within a couple of weeks of Bill Vukovich getting killed at Indianapolis, so that put even more light upon it in the us. I have a Speed Age magazine from that era that has an article about the US government trying to get involved in banning the sport.

Like with most things involving U.S. motorsports history, there's a lot of confusing, contradictory and misinformation out there. It was really just one U.S. Senator, who gave a speech from the floor in July 1955 urging that a bill be introduced to ban auto racing. I've not seen evidence that a bill was ever introduced, but I've also read that it was. Regardless, it never amounted to anything or gained any traction, even though the Senator continued to call for an end to auto racing, most notably in an article in a magazine, I believe Mechanix Illustrated, some years later.  

[E1pix]

The Lockerbie Air Disaster completely and singly killed the US Formula Super Vee pro series after a more than 20 year run.

To expand, the CEO of VW USA, and his US Marketing Director, were killed at Lockerbie.

With them went the two major, ongoing proponents of Super Vee — and about 21 months later, the Series died with them.

[Catalina Park]

In Australia at the 1955 Bathurst Easter meeting 20 spectators were injured and one killed when a car went into the crowd.
Laws were tightened.

[LOTI]

Could I suggest that one person's disaster is another person's opportunity?

 

All the accidents quoted may have effected the country in which they happened but hardly changed motor sport world wide.

Just a thought.

[Henri Greuter]

I suspect James Dean being killed that September also helped not at all.

 

 

 

1955 was a real bad year for the US racing world.

If Vukovich's fatal accident was the AAA  equivalent of Senna's in F1 , then Manny Ayulo was the AAA equivalent of Ratzenberger: the almost forgotten other fatal accident in the event in which a topline driver was killed.

And the last ever AAA Champcar race that year ended with another fatality of big name within the series: Jack McGrath.

Edited by Henri Greuter, 30 September 2024 - 13:24.

[F1matt]

The opening picture of Senna's car looks like it has merged into some sort of Hollywood blockbuster, I don't remember it looking like that. At the risk of going off topic I think of many of those events as tragedies rather than disasters. I thought a disaster was something that was out of someone's control such as a hurricane or tsunami and a tragedy had more of a human element such as a mistake, for example the Titanic hitting an iceberg was a tragedy as it was down to human error, maybe I am wrong. 

[Sterzo]

I thought a disaster was something that was out of someone's control such as a hurricane or tsunami and a tragedy had more of a human element such as a mistake, for example the Titanic hitting an iceberg was a tragedy as it was down to human error, maybe I am wrong. 

Your interpretation is consistent with what my English Literature teacher told me in 1965, but not with what my Concise OED from 1995 says, where the definition is virtually the same for each, tragedy having lost its "born out of human character" element. Maybe refecting usage, as language always does. (Which is a disaster).

[Charlieman]

According to Google Ngrams, the expressions "manmade disaster" and "natural disaster" were not in use before the 1920s. Before then we just spoke of disasters. 

[Darren Galpin]

Paris-Madrid did put pay to town to town racing in France, but probably had less of an impact overall than imagined - there were still long distance rallies, the Mille Miglia, and other competitive open-road events held afterwards. There were also other events after the 1903 event with a higher death toll, but were largely ignored by the press.

 

I'd argue that an accident to Webb Jay on the 18th August 1905 in the US had a large impact - up to this point in the US, steam powered racers and petrol powered ones raced equally on the tracks, and wins were shared around between them - it was no sure thing that petrol was the future for performance. Jay crashed his White steamer and suffered a punctured lung, and only returned to driving in reliability runs thereafter - this seems to have been the turning point in the US, with steamers disappearing from the tracks shortly after.

[TerryS]

In Australia at the 1955 Bathurst Easter meeting 20 spectators were injured and one killed when a car went into the crowd.
Laws were tightened.

 

THERE WAS ACTUALLY TWO KILLED AND 18 INJURED.

[Doug Nye]

Monday, May 2, 1898 is, of course, just a tad early for mention within this thread - and the after effect of the double fatality which occurred in that day's Course du Périgueux race proved to create more of a ripple than a tsunami - but as the first 'motor race' to see a driver killed, together with a riding mechanic, it certainly steadied the competitors, interested enthusiasts (and event organisers) of the period.  

 

The Marquis Renaud de Montaignac and his mechanic Alfred Hézard both sustained crush injuries when the former lost control of his ponderous Landry-et-Beyroux, hitting a tree and overturning probably after clipping wheels with an overtaking Benz Parisienne being driven by a friend.

 

Concern for motor racing safety expanded immensely through following decades, of course - the activity's increasing human cost attracting political attention largely thanks to the often prurient media attention that any 'disaster' attracted. Bandwagon politicians are nothing new...

 

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 30 October 2024 - 09:39.

[BRG]

I think we have failed to identify any one single event that "changed motor racing forever".  Rather we have seen many events over the years that contributed to gradual incremental change, such as on safety both for competitors and spectators.

 

In rallying, the demise of Group B is often held up as seismic change, but the reality was that rallying carried on as pretty much as before, only with slower cars that fairly soon became as fast as the Group B monsters had been.  The main change was introducing stricter spectator controls even in Portugal.  I was competing regularly back then, and in national level rallying in the UK, the whole Group B crisis had almost zero impact.

[F1matt]

I think we have failed to identify any one single event that "changed motor racing forever".  Rather we have seen many events over the years that contributed to gradual incremental change, such as on safety both for competitors and spectators.

 

In rallying, the demise of Group B is often held up as seismic change, but the reality was that rallying carried on as pretty much as before, only with slower cars that fairly soon became as fast as the Group B monsters had been.  The main change was introducing stricter spectator controls even in Portugal.  I was competing regularly back then, and in national level rallying in the UK, the whole Group B crisis had almost zero impact.

 

 

Tragic events in the first half of 1986 pretty much brought Group B and Group S to a complete halt, without Balestre stepping in when he did it is terrifying to imagine where top level rallying was heading and the risks the teams and manufacturers were willing to take in that era, works drivers must have been secretly delighted when it was banned knowing the risks they had to take and the development race that was unfolding and pretty much killed off in May 1986. 

 

I think the FIA got lucky with world championship rallying, if Toyota hadn't have come in when they did Lancia were in danger of killing the sport, Mazda and Ford weren't providing any serious competition and Toyota vs Lancia generated interest again. 

 

I think the ability of detuned Group B cars helped national rallying and rallycross, it gave people the opportunity to watch "outlawed" cars at available events, it is hard to image something like that happening now although I agree national rallying was in rude health back then. 

[WonderWoman61]

Jules Bianchi

Edited by WonderWoman61, 31 October 2024 - 16:21.

[Nemo1965]

Going on the general mood in racing comments: the arrival of Red Bull and/or Max Verstappen in F1.

[rl1856]

Lotus wing failures during practice for the 1969 Spanish GP led to the ban of high mounted wings, and implementation of rules banning "movable aerodynamic devices".  The later has continued to have significant impact on the sport.

 

Von Tripps' accident directly led to the end of using the Monza banking for GP races.

 

Rindt's accident may have been a reason for introducing chicanes at Monza.

 

Roger Williamson's accident led to significantly increased effort to improve trackside medical facilities.

[Collombin]

Von Tripps' accident directly led to the end of using the Monza banking for GP races

Why?

[F1matt]

Going on the general mood in racing comments: the arrival of Red Bull and/or Max Verstappen in F1.

 

But would Lando Norris have won as many Driver of the day awards if Max Verstappen hadn't won everything? 

[john aston]

Going on the general mood in racing comments: the arrival of Red Bull and/or Max Verstappen in F1.

Nearly right . What has changed immensely in the sport is the absurd level of tribalism from the new ....umm...fanbase. One of the reasons that I fell in live with the sport in 1967 was the near complete absence of the issues which made me  loathe most sports. Tifosi apart - and they were sui generis anyway, supporting team not driver   -  most people I met in the sport just wanted a good race . And if a driver we liked won , so much the better but if he didn't , then no matter, as long as the racing was good. 

 

Although many seem to think a vast influx of new fans is a Good Thing , I don't . They struggle to understand how I do not care very much who wins , and how I can like both driver A and B and not feel that B's  victory after a clash with A is unfair or undeserved. But my biggest gripe is that  to much of the new breed , F1 and motorsport are one and the same thing . Talking to young fans at the last GP meeting I went to it was clear that they no knowledge of nor interest in the broader motorsport church.   

[WonderWoman61]

Jules Bianchi

Also Henry Surtees, Dan Wheldon, Justin Wilson.

Now we have the halo and the aeroscreen in indicates.

[absinthedude]

Nearly right . What has changed immensely in the sport is the absurd level of tribalism from the new ....umm...fanbase. One of the reasons that I fell in live with the sport in 1967 was the near complete absence of the issues which made me  loathe most sports. Tifosi apart - and they were sui generis anyway, supporting team not driver   -  most people I met in the sport just wanted a good race . And if a driver we liked won , so much the better but if he didn't , then no matter, as long as the racing was good. 

 

Although many seem to think a vast influx of new fans is a Good Thing , I don't . They struggle to understand how I do not care very much who wins , and how I can like both driver A and B and not feel that B's  victory after a clash with A is unfair or undeserved. But my biggest gripe is that  to much of the new breed , F1 and motorsport are one and the same thing . Talking to young fans at the last GP meeting I went to it was clear that they no knowledge of nor interest in the broader motorsport church.   

 

This 100%

Fotoball is an essentially easy to follow game, and it's very popular. Most people seem to like it. But I am totally put off by the petty tribalism. Why, as a resident of Luton, am I supposed to literally hate Watford's team? Nobody can explain. It's all very Terry Pratchett-esque. Nobody remembers why, we just do. 

 

The Tifosi love it when Ferrari win, but they also appreciate a great drive no matter who delivers it. The new generation of "fans" have no idea of nuance or context. And do not wish to know about history, even recent history, of our sport. I do blame Drive To Survive, because it artificially generates fake "beef" between drivers and teams and people tune in expecting it to be like that.

 

I hate to say "I told you so" but I said so as soon as that show started. People will tune in and expect F1 to be like that. And here we are. 

 

Netflix DTS is a disaster that has changed F1.

[bsc]

Fotoball is an essentially easy to follow game, and it's very popular. Most people seem to like it. But I am totally put off by the petty tribalism. Why, as a resident of Luton, am I supposed to literally hate Watford's team? Nobody can explain. It's all very Terry Pratchett-esque. Nobody remembers why, we just do. 

 

The Tifosi love it when Ferrari win, but they also appreciate a great drive no matter who delivers it. 

Agree regarding the Tifosi - as an aside, on my first marshalling trip to Monza, I remember the crowds enthusiastically cheering a backmarker in the Radical Eurocup race for lap after lap solely because the car was painted red. 

[JacnGille]

Agree regarding the Tifosi - as an aside, on my first marshalling trip to Monza, I remember the crowds enthusiastically cheering a backmarker in the Radical Eurocup race for lap after lap solely because the car was painted red. 

Didn't they throw rocks at McLaren driver Prost one year and then cheer him the next when he moved to Ferrari?

[opplock]

Agree regarding the Tifosi - as an aside, on my first marshalling trip to Monza, I remember the crowds enthusiastically cheering a backmarker in the Radical Eurocup race for lap after lap solely because the car was painted red. 

 

I watched the 1982 Italian GP from the concrete terraces on approach to Parabolica. A few laps into the race someone in front of me started waving his arms excitedly every time John Watson went past. Within 5 laps about 1,000 people had joined in the fun. 

 

I was never worried about sitting among thousands of tifosi. I wouldn't say the same about Mansell fans. 

[Nemo1965]

I think Stewart’s accident at Spa 1966 was a disaster (or near-disaster) that changed F1 and motorsport forever. Without it, I don’t think Stewart would have fought so hard for more safety. I can’t imagine another driver of that time who would have been able to a. motivate their drivers to fight with him, b. still be able to deal with the pressure of participating in a sport he knew was dangerous and that it could happen to him (because it already had).

[Nemo1965]

This 100%
Fotoball is an essentially easy to follow game, and it's very popular. Most people seem to like it. But I am totally put off by the petty tribalism. Why, as a resident of Luton, am I supposed to literally hate Watford's team? Nobody can explain. It's all very Terry Pratchett-esque. Nobody remembers why, we just do.

The Tifosi love it when Ferrari win, but they also appreciate a great drive no matter who delivers it. The new generation of "fans" have no idea of nuance or context. And do not wish to know about history, even recent history, of our sport. I do blame Drive To Survive, because it artificially generates fake "beef" between drivers and teams and people tune in expecting it to be like that.

I hate to say "I told you so" but I said so as soon as that show started. People will tune in and expect F1 to be like that. And here we are.

Netflix DTS is a disaster that has changed F1.

The weird thing is: most posters around here hate the Max-fans because they are supposedly the superficial DTS-fans. But Max does not lend his cooperation the program, because he hates it for the same reason as you do. (I saw three episodes, reluctantly. Hated it).

[AJCee]

I’ve never seen Drive to Survive. I don’t suppose I ever will either, but the cyclops-like fandom precedes it by some way. To be perfectly honest, I found being amongst the baying ‘Mansellites’ embarrassing, but it’s the way the world has gone - any issue polarised to simple black vs white choices.
Some say Brands Hatch in the summer of 1976 was the day it turned.
I went to The F1 Exhibition last week and was pleasantly surprised by both the scope of the exhibition and the interest that most visitors seemed to be paying to the more historical parts: it wasn’t just for the I ❤️ Lando/ hate Max (or vice versa) brigade.
All is not lost and there are still sports that the crowd watch with appreciation for the efforts of the competitors and the spectacle of the event.

[john aston]

I was at Brands in  1976 and I am not sure it had lasting significance - it was the legendarily hot summer and most of the country had gone mad by mid July  anyway - streakers aplenty and tough guy builders downing tools on the Humber Bridge due to ladybird attacks. 

 

I watched DtS and - sorry - rather enjoyed it - at least it was an  antidote to the lame corporate speak and cliched sports person waffle which characterises the public face of the sport. But  its legacy, sadly , is the  cargo cult level adoration so much of the fan community has for one driver and the visceral loathing for another . And the fact that team principals are now part of the show -  facebook recently reminded me that Gunther Steiner was on tour and visiting my local theatre . Would Peter Warr or Tim Parnell have packed the Alhambra ? On one popular F1 website Chrstian Horner has a thread hundreds of pages long , while Dan Gurney's passing attracted  a handful of posts. He obviously didn't podium  enough  and only had four P1s .