85 replies to this topic

[loki]

I find it peculiar that F1 is the only series that has issues like this there.  Could it be the drivers and teams?  Naw, gotta be the track.  It’s an inanimate object that controls the minds and behaviors of “Thee Worlds Greatest Race Drivers” (and Lance Stroll)…

[PayasYouRace]

F1 isn’t the only series that has issues at COTA, but it’s probably more noticeable because F1 cars are by far the highest performance cars that race there.

[Myrvold]

I find it peculiar that F1 is the only series that has issues like this there.  Could it be the drivers and teams?  Naw, gotta be the track.  It’s an inanimate object that controls the minds and behaviors of “Thee Worlds Greatest Race Drivers” (and Lance Stroll)…

 

It's not though. Charlotte Roval, COTA for... everyone. etc.

Some "fix" it by ignoring track limits (and thus safety features, runoffs and so on). It's a bit like NASCAR talking about the massive crashes out of T1 and the loop at Watkins Glen. Maybe if they actually stuck to the track, thus going slower, with a bigger runoff things would've been different...

Edited by Myrvold, 14 October 2024 - 22:12.

[loki]

F1 isn’t the only series that has issues at COTA, but it’s probably more noticeable because F1 cars are by far the highest performance cars that race there.

Not the tracks fault they can’t set up for the corner.  They’ve got two pedals and a steering wheel.  They take it because they want to.  A ten second stop and go on the first violation would stop it real quick.  Do it in quali and every lap of the session until that point is cleared.  Do it again and you’re tail end of the longest line for the race.

[MikeTekRacing]

NASCAR is a joke at COTA, they drive whatever line they want.

The issue F1 cares about this is that it (recently, last few years) started to care about track limits

[ARTGP]

F1 isn’t the only series that has issues at COTA, but it’s probably more noticeable because F1 cars are by far the highest performance cars that race there.

F1 is nothing compared to the “choose your own track” races that NASCAR and Indycar had here.

[PayasYouRace]

Not the tracks fault they can’t set up for the corner.  They’ve got two pedals and a steering wheel.  They take it because they want to.  A ten second stop and go on the first violation would stop it real quick.  Do it in quali and every lap of the session until that point is cleared.  Do it again and you’re tail end of the longest line for the race.

I don’t need to repeat what others have said about how other series don’t even bother with the track limits.

[milestone 11]

Anyone found pictures already?

Apparently, it's as used at Zandvoort. Pics and article here, https://www.motorspo...ch-gp/10361008/

[Beri]

I know the one on Zandvoort. Been walking over it. I was talking about the COTA ones. Because apparently there are these resin gravel traps at places that didn't have a gravel trap before. So I'm curious about that.

[jonpollak]

Need build-up thread…..

Jp

[Sterzo]

I know the one on Zandvoort. Been walking over it.

Oh no. So next year's excuse will be: "I put a wheel onto the glued gravel, but Beri had been walking on it so I had no grip for sure."

[JacnGille]

I haven't heard this mentioned even once during two days of TV coverage.

[BRG]

I haven't managed to spot one of these fake gravel traps so far.  Where are they again?

[Brawn BGP 001]

I haven't managed to spot one of these fake gravel traps so far.  Where are they again?

Excatly I have saw none, and we had loads of track limits issues.

[Yoshi]

We need to have full gravel here at COTA... pls do it for 2025

[AustinF1]

I haven't managed to spot one of these fake gravel traps so far.  Where are they again?

Excatly I have saw none, and we had loads of track limits issues.

100%. I know this track like the back of my hand, and try as I might, I could never spot any of the changes they supposedly made - neither the resin/gravel nor the 'turf' installations.

[loki]

So fake fake gravel?

[AlexS]

We need a surface material that slows down cars significantly but also don't put them stuck.

 

That is best of both worlds, who runs outside is punished and we do not have SC's.

 

 

Another option is an electronic device that when a car runs off track it slows it down to a certain power level, say 60% of what it was before.

[AustinF1]

So fake fake gravel?

Maybe the Orange One was there.

[Beri]

Make COTA great again!

[AlexPrime]

NASCAR is a joke at COTA, they drive whatever line they want.

A thrill to watch though. I checked highlights from the truck series in the spring, I think and I was laughing like crazy. After you are used to F1 it is like seeing fat guys on an athletics race.

[Bleu]

The edge of turn 12 should be changed. I can see it is good to have some tarmac but with current layout it is easier to maintain speed if you go a bit wide. So the gravel line should be something like this I've drawn here.

 

[PayasYouRace]

Should be like the Zandvoort runoffs. Tarmac straight ahead and a rejoining one around the edge, and gravel for the rest. Would work really well there.

[Beri]

The edge of turn 12 should be changed. I can see it is good to have some tarmac but with current layout it is easier to maintain speed if you go a bit wide. So the gravel line should be something like this I've drawn here.

 

 

Youre cutting away the flag. This cant happen! 

 

But in all seriousness, PAYR and I are very much in agreement over the way Zandvoort handles it. It would fit COTA very well, as well as other venues too.

 

Should be like the Zandvoort runoffs. Tarmac straight ahead and a rejoining one around the edge, and gravel for the rest. Would work really well there.

Edited by Beri, 21 October 2024 - 18:22.

[uzsjgb]

NASCAR is a joke at COTA, they drive whatever line they want.

 

This is untrue. Nascar actually had more penalties for track limit violations this year, than Formula 1 did.

[BRG]

This is untrue. Nascar actually had more penalties for track limit violations this year, than Formula 1 did.

But NASCAR had twice as many cars on the grid, and their race ran for more laps than F1.  So many, many more opportunities to abuse limits.

[billm99uk]

Should be like the Zandvoort runoffs. Tarmac straight ahead and a rejoining one around the edge, and gravel for the rest. Would work really well there.

 

Well if they put in the Zandvoort banking, that would be fun! Not sure what it would do for viewing angles though.

[PayasYouRace]

Well if they put in the Zandvoort banking, that would be fun! Not sure what it would do for viewing angles though.

You’ve actually highlighted my one real issue with COTA. There’s only one long fast corner (the multi-apex 17-18). Everything else is really tight hairpins or esses.

But that viewing tower is in the middle of 17-18, so that would work with massive banking. It’s basically flat out in F1 anyway.

[SenorSjon]

Should be like the Zandvoort runoffs. Tarmac straight ahead and a rejoining one around the edge, and gravel for the rest. Would work really well there.

 

Motorbikes don't race at Zandvoort, but do at COTA. Such a solution killed Salom in Moto2 in Spain 2016 when he slid right through on his bike, hitting the bike instead of the barrier. Gravel tumbles a lot, but usually don't get them killed.

[Beri]

But the issue is that tarmac runoffs are there for bikes.

[PayasYouRace]

Motorbikes don't race at Zandvoort, but do at COTA. Such a solution killed Salom in Moto2 in Spain 2016 when he slid right through on his bike, hitting the bike instead of the barrier. Gravel tumbles a lot, but usually don't get them killed.

Fun fact, gravel traps can temporarily be laid over permanent tarmac.

[Bleu]

But the issue is that tarmac runoffs are there for bikes.

 

Usually it's tarmac and then gravel. even in the corner where Salom fatally crashed most of the area was like that but Salom and bike went to the wall where there was no gravel.

[Ruusperi]

Motorbikes don't race at Zandvoort, but do at COTA. Such a solution killed Salom in Moto2 in Spain 2016 when he slid right through on his bike, hitting the bike instead of the barrier. Gravel tumbles a lot, but usually don't get them killed.

Yet MotoGP feels safe to race at Silverstone where they installed a tarmac run-off area all the way to the barrier after Zhou's flip.

 

True, it's pretty far away, but in wet conditions I would say it's possible to slide all the way to the wall if a rider loses it or kinda hangs on to the bike.

Edited by Ruusperi, 23 October 2024 - 14:48.

[Jellyfishcake]

The motorbike arguement just doesn't stack up, it's always thrown out whenever the tarmac/gravel chat comes up.

But the reality is, just look at many of the circuits on the MotoGP calendar, and some of those specialist bike tracks have gravel everywhere 

[LolaB0860]

Apparently changes for COTA are considered for 2025

https://www.motorspo...ustin/10666509/

Austin's Circuit of the Americas, which also hosts MotoGP that has different run-off requirements, is understood to be in discussions with the FIA over potential changes for 2025.

[F1 Mike]

Ever since these great ******* tarmac runoffs started appearing it's made a complete mess of the racing, and I've always said they cause nothing but problems regarding track limits and ridiculous debates.

I can't believe it's taken them this long to realise they have to have gravel around the edges of the tarmac in problem areas, but finally they're getting it!