82 replies to this topic

[sterlingfan2000]

There's a Paddock Rumours going around today that Toyota is making steps to return to F1 with Haas. Sponsorship may be already for next Season with Haas and then slowly taking over the Team. Some Rumours say there could be an announcement this week.

https://formula.hu/f...-f1-be-a-toyota

[Anja]

I've seen talk about some big news coming tomorrow, could it be this?

[LolaB0860]

Just imagine if these teams were able to enter on their own.

[noikeee]

That's hilariously random lol

Why Haas? Why try to win from the US?

[LolaB0860]

That's hilariously random lol

Why Haas? Why try to win from the US?

 

They're the cheapest to buy

[loki]

The tenders for new engines in 2028 have already passed.  How do you come in as an engine manufacturer until the next tender?  Notwithstanding the FIA make up the rules as they go along.  Which would be on brand.

[loki]

BTW the Toyota to Haas rumors are nearly 4 months old.  Haas has a Ferrari deal until 2028 and can’t yet produce a complete car.  AFAICT this is from a report that Toyota racing chief Masaya Kaji has a friendship with Komatsu and was seen in the Haas garage during the British GP.

[Frood]

There's been rumours that sending Ritomo Miyata was just the start of Toyota sending drivers to Europe again - apparently they've also been lining up Jin Nakamura and Rikuto Kobayashi for either F3 or FRECA. I've had a feeling something is afoot as a result.

[Mark521]

Technical partnership with Toyota Gazoo Racing 

 

https://x.com/HaasF1...558588850622759

[krapmeister]

I forsee more underwhelming liveries in HAAS's future...

[sterlingfan2000]

They will improve Haas till 2028 and then buy Haas.

They already testing Engines for 2028, it's just not official now.

Edited by sterlingfan2000, 11 October 2024 - 03:49.

[Alfisti]

Wasnt this rumoured a few months back??

[loki]

I wonder how Ferrari will take to that.  They’ve got enough time that if they start now or have started they could make the parts they buy from Ferrari.  The engine is another matter but that’s more likely than the other current parts.  It would be just another customer engine team.  If they’ve got something to the testing stage why haven’t they applied yet?  If they buy an existing team do they need permission to build an engine or can they just say they’re building an engine for their team?

[JL14]

Confirmed indeed

 

Haas F1 team agrees technical partnership with Toyota (motorsport.com)

[arrysen]

Not a Toyota returns to F1 story, according to Toyota.

 

Don't think that the clickbait crew will take much notice of that, somehow.

[Beri]

Wasnt this rumoured a few months back??

Yes. But now it is official.

A good thing for Haas and F1 I'd think. But strange in terms of how one can see this deal. Technical partnership to a Ferrari engined team. I wonder how that will pan out.

[sterlingfan2000]

Yes. But now it is official.

A good thing for Haas and F1 I'd think. But strange in terms of how one can see this deal. Technical partnership to a Ferrari engined team. I wonder how that will pan out.

It's a different approach to Audi. Who will enter 2026 and be bad , Toyota has chosen a different route.

They will slowly get used to F1 and then make a full comeback in the upcoming years.

[Nobody]

Hope to see them back fully as a manufacturer

[Beri]

It's a different approach to Audi. Who will enter 2026 and be bad , Toyota has chosen a different route.

They will slowly get used to F1 and then make a full comeback in the upcoming years.

And that is where you are wrong. Toyota has said it has no ambition to be a full works team or engine manufacturer. You're one of the people not reading the news correctly.

And yes, I know. Once in Formula One, Toyota might be tempted to either of the two. But at the moment that is not the case. And knowing Audi is already 2 years in preparation for 2026 and GM has been rumored to work on an 2028 engine, I think it is safe to say Toyota will not enter an engine or take over Haas before 2028. If it ever comes to that, because all quotes are denying this in full.

[Yoshi]

Nice news on this Friday - hopefully it will be more than a technical partnership at some point.

[noikeee]

So they're actually going to be a sponsor, of a team who's doing well-ish right now but generally seems to be the single team with the least resources in F1 and generally fights not to be last?

I don't get it.

[Joseki]

Great news.

 

I'm sure Toyota will use their time as a technical partner to evaluate if and how coming back to F1 in a full capacity.

[sterlingfan2000]

Great news.

I'm sure Toyota will use their time as a technical partner to evaluate if and how coming back to F1 in a full capacity.

That's the plan, different to Audi. Toyota know if they enter now , they will struggle immensely, so they help Haas to get the best facility and Infrastructure and then Enter.

Soft Enter vs Hard Enter like Audi

[P123]

Seems to be the F1 equivalent of dipping a toe in the water. 

[danmills]

All the exposure, insight and experience at a penny of the price of a works team. 

 

Smart move. The Japanese entrants before were allegedly  very rigid in their idea of methodology so it seems they are softening their approach and being more flexible in adapting to F1.

 

I say that based on the tech interviews about Hondas odd backwards approaches to design during the Mclaren days, or the Yamaha engine problems etc.

[Viryfan]

So they're actually going to be a sponsor, of a team who's doing well-ish right now but generally seems to be the single team with the least resources in F1 and generally fights not to be last?

I don't get it.

They will provide technical ressources to Haas, while Haas will give the japanese crew from Gazoo Racing a chance to work in F1.

[Nova]

Aston Martin Honda and Ferrari Toyota.

[kumo7]

Great News. 

 

As Yotoda said, this project will bring younger Japanese drivers (and engineers) to F1. I think F1 will also benefit from this new tie. 

[Baddoer]

God please no. Keep Toyota from F1 as far as possible, they turn everything to ****.

[Viryfan]

Interestingly Haas did very little simuator work as Ferrari had very little slot in Maranello and Haas too little work force in order to do so in the season.

Having access to a simulator on a consistent bas8s will already be a huge asset for Haas in order to prepare race week-ends.

Edited by Viryfan, 11 October 2024 - 11:50.

[Spillage]

Pretty cool and good news for the sport. The manufacturers are queuing up to get involved. If only the sport wasn't too short-sighted to refuse entry to Andretti-Cadillac.

[LolaB0860]

And that is where you are wrong. Toyota has said it has no ambition to be a full works team or engine manufacturer. You're one of the people not reading the news correctly.

And yes, I know. Once in Formula One, Toyota might be tempted to either of the two. But at the moment that is not the case. And knowing Audi is already 2 years in preparation for 2026 and GM has been rumored to work on an 2028 engine, I think it is safe to say Toyota will not enter an engine or take over Haas before 2028. If it ever comes to that, because all quotes are denying this in full.

Since when have PR statements have actually meant anything? It just saves them the trouble of having to back down later if they show no-commitment and give vague statements now. Who knows what actually reads in this contract.

God please no. Keep Toyota from F1 as far as possible, they turn everything to ****.

I think you've mistaken Toyota for BMW.

Edited by LolaB0860, 11 October 2024 - 12:37.

[danmills]

Erm, we're you on Mars during the early 00s?

[Alfisti]

The idea of starting small with Haas seems a smart move but just not sure how it works with the Ferrari influence at Haas, they gonna be nervous at having Toyota poke around surely?

[juicy sushi]

It will be interesting to see how this evolves.  It basically seems like the end point will be Toyota designing most of the chassis, but with a Ferrari powertrain and rear-end bolted on.  I am not sure how long that could last, but it will be interesting to see how far it goes.

[JL14]

The idea of starting small with Haas seems a smart move but just not sure how it works with the Ferrari influence at Haas, they gonna be nervous at having Toyota poke around surely?

 Komatsu states they did the deal with the blessing of Ferrari.

 

Komatsu also said he worked hard to assure Ferrari that "if they feel that this Toyota-Haas alliance will be a threat to them, that's not gonna work – so, I made sure that that is not the case".

He added: "Of course Ferrari sent certain requirements, certain break points, where I had to guarantee them, 'look, we're continuing this and this and this'. But, again, that's what we were going to do anyway. So, it was pretty straightforward really and very collaborative from all sides."

Edited by JL14, 11 October 2024 - 13:29.

[messy]

I think this sounds like quite a promising, logical way for Toyota to ease themselves back in. Whatever they're saying at the moment, clearly there's much more potential for this partnership to ramp up in the future. Good for Toyota, good for Haas and probably good for F1.

[mclarensmps]

As someone who has disliked Toyota, pretty much my entire life - lately they've seem to be doing everything right. So much so that even my own opinion on them is changing. I totally understand why they would do this through HAAS from a marketing standpoint. Let's see if they can FINALLY get it to work. 

[JL14]

Explained: How the Haas-Toyota F1 alliance is actually going to work (motorsport.com)

Here are the key ways in which the new alliance will initially work, as well as what the deal means for Toyota, Ferrari and Haas's other technical partner, Dallara.

- Long term, multi-year, project.

- Toyota can now send its engineers to learn F1-level processes and design ideas, while not having to buy its way onto the grid.

- Haas gets a significant resource boost in return.

("They are looking for the latest F1 know-how, like skill sets," Komatsu explained. "Which we have, but we don't have their facilities. We don't have the number of people, their resources.")

- However, Komatsu is clear that "not at the moment" Toyota engineers will be embedded in Haas's F1 race operation. Haas hasn't seen the right people to put in place – yet.

("Certain senior position recruitment at the race team has been a real struggle [in the 2024 recruitment drive]. And then if, TGR had that personnel that fits the profile, I'd have taken him or her straight away. But at the moment, they haven't.")

- It has created an alternative way for the team to buy in car parts it needs. This differs in how its existing relationship works with Ferrari and Dallara and is considered a sponsorship fund from which parts will be paid.

("If we ask TGR to make our front wing. There will be an exchange in terms of PO [purchase order], so we will be paying for that front wing, but that will come out of this sponsorship money. Whereas making a front wing at Dallara, Mr Haas needs to pay.")

- The participation in test drives by TGR training drivers will centre on F1's Testing of Previous Cars [TPC rules].

("if one race engineer, one performance engineer, decides to leave, or has a problem [and can't] be able to attend the race, we are really struggling, we're on the limit all the time. To do TPC, we are employing some people as Haas F1 team personnel, but TGR will be providing some personnel as well. So, it's going to be a completely collaborative, mixture effort.")

- Help build its first F1 simulator at its Banbury base – where significant additional new facilities are expected to be built too.

- Haas will continue to use the Maranello wind tunnel to design its future F1 cars and will carry on buying Ferrari gearbox and suspension parts. And, in terms of F1 engine supply the team will remain a Ferrari customer until at least the end of its new deal running to 2028

- "We'll also be discussing which parameters will keep working with Dallara, which parameters we're gonna work with Toyota, but we will coexist," Komatsu said. "It's not to replace one another."

[Darnswim]

I think you've mistaken Toyota for BMW.

Toyota have a way worse history in F1 than BMW. Even as manufacturers (2006-2009), BMW was miles ahead of Toyota. And I'm saying this as someone that loves both manufacturers (and Toyota was my biggest dream for a manufacturer engine for Mclaren instead of a customer one, but that option has gone down the drain now).
 

[Myrvold]

There's been rumours that sending Ritomo Miyata was just the start of Toyota sending drivers to Europe again - apparently they've also been lining up Jin Nakamura and Rikuto Kobayashi for either F3 or FRECA.

 

This isn't something new though. Ryo Hirakawa was also sent to Europe many years ago to do ELMS to learn some European tracks and "European racing". A combination of Toyota-loyalty, them seemingly insisting to have only one Japanese driver in each car, and the opportunity to get Alonso, sent him back to Japan. He got the "Japanese seat" when Nakajima retired.

Miyata is being prepped for a WEC-seat, doing ELMS for the "European racing" idea. Working with the WEC team at the WEC events, and F2 to learn more tracks, and working in an international environment. Nakamura and Kobayashi is in the same WEC-program, except it's not the "WEC Challenge Program" but rather "WEC Challenge Program Racing School". The idea is nevertheless the same. Send Japanese drivers to Europe to get experience on tracks and environment to see who will be promoted to the Toyota WEC team.

 

----------------------

 

To stay on topic...

 

This sounds like it's a real combination of patchy deals. Dallara will still do their bit, they keep having the Ferrari deal, but Toyota GR Europe, might also help with bits and pieces.

[LolaB0860]

Erm, we're you on Mars during the early 00s?

Who?

[cbo]

Assumingly, Toyota will be able to get F1 car data from Haas and get simulators, wind tunnels, CFD calculations etc. up to scratch. Not a bad way to go, if Toyota should decide to engage more in F1 post-2028.

Which would make sense, given Toyotas focus on alternative fuels and hybrid technology for their road cars and skepticism regarding battery EVs.

It will be interesting to see how HAAS can benefit from this cooperation.

[Pingguest]

They already testing Engines for 2028, it's just not official now.

 

Source? 

[Baddoer]

Assumingly, Toyota will be able to get F1 car data from Haas and get simulators, wind tunnels, CFD calculations etc. up to scratch. Not a bad way to go, if Toyota should decide to engage more in F1 post-2028.
 

Sounds like stealing information without being involved in a sport. Should be banned for that.

[Nathan]

If I show you my homework, you aren't stealing it.

 

That's the plan, different to Audi. Toyota know if they enter now , they will struggle immensely, so they help Haas to get the best facility and Infrastructure and then Enter.

Soft Enter vs Hard Enter like Audi

 

They sound like the same plans.

Edited by Nathan, 11 October 2024 - 17:14.

[Beri]

Great News. 

 

As Yotoda said, this project will bring younger Japanese drivers (and engineers) to F1. I think F1 will also benefit from this new tie. 

 

Yeah, well, how did than pan out with Honda who promised the same? Tsunoda is the only one. And Iwasa will never make it into F1.

[Junky]

Win win for both, to be honest. Wouldn't mind seeing in the future a Haas-Toyota team - but truly 50/50%, because I don't really trust in the japanese for a long term commitment with F1.

[BoDarvelle]

Interestingly Haas did very little simuator work as Ferrari had very little slot in Maranello and Haas too little work force in order to do so in the season.

Having access to a simulator on a consistent bas8s will already be a huge asset for Haas in order to prepare race week-ends.

 

It also appears that parts produced by Dallara have a longer lead time than those produced in house by the other teams. Transferring some/much of this to TGR would help speed things along while also being cheaper.

 

Dallara will be the big loser in this in the long run. Which is perfectly fine.

[baddog]

Not a Toyota returns to F1 story, according to Toyota.

 

Don't think that the clickbait crew will take much notice of that, somehow.

 

While its not a return, all they are saying is that it is not a return NOW. Its pretty evidently at least a toe in the water with a view to more later.