27 replies to this topic

[Tim Murray]

I knew Dan’s father had been a professional opera singer, but knew very little about his parents otherwise. The link below fills in some of the details. Thanks to Harry Hurst who unearthed it for his ‘Glory Days of Racing’ Facebook group.

Oberlin’s Golden Couple: Roma and John Gurney

[E1pix]

Fabulous insights into how Dan became Dan.

Nothing like such creative influences to make a kid think entirely out of wherever today’s box thinks it is.

Thanks Tim.

[ReWind]

The entries on FindAGrave:
Roma Gurney (10 Nov 1902 - 05 Jan 1997)
John Gurney (13 Jun 1902 - 06 Aug 1997)

He also sang the national anthem at the inaugural Long Beach Grand Prix and at other racing events featuring his son Dan Gurney.

Dan Gurney (13 Apr 1931 - 14 Jan 2018)

Edited by ReWind, 14 October 2024 - 17:40.

[Doug Nye]

Wonderful.  When asked, Dan would speak very fondly of his parents.  During his frontline career he was of course exceptionally good at not speaking very much at all (as he once said "in case you give anything away your rivals could use to advantage * ) - yet still always came across as a really pleasant, proper and nice guy.

 

*Learned largely from Jack Brabham's example.

 

Here are Dan and his parents at Le Mans '62.

 

 

Photo: Revs Digital Library/Al Bochroch

 

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 14 October 2024 - 18:30.

[Emery0323]

I knew Dan’s father had been a professional opera singer, but knew very little about his parents otherwise. The link below fills in some of the details. Thanks to Harry Hurst who unearthed it for his ‘Glory Days of Racing’ Facebook group.

Oberlin’s Golden Couple: Roma and John Gurney

Interesting thread!    It looks like John Gurney had an extensive career at the Metropolitan Opera, the most prominent opera company in the United States:

https://archives.met...q="John Gurney"

[BRG]

Intriguing.  So many drivers parents were competitors themselves or they come from the automotive world as drivers, or mechanics or garage owners etc.  Quite a few come from farming backgrounds.  In these cases early exposure to mechanical stuff has a major influence.  

 

But the musical world seems so far from motor sport as to be almost mutually incompatible.  Do we know of any others coming from a similar parental background?

[Tim Murray]

Now we can hear John Gurney sing! (Once past the introductory waffle):

https://youtu.be/Z8H...q5Eby8jKcQ1qwry

[Doug Nye]

Hmmm - to be honest, I'd far rather be listening to Dan talk...

 

DCN

[funformula]

 Do we know of any others coming from a similar parental background?

Adrian Sutil´s parents both are professional musicians.

[LittleChris]

Rick Parfitt Jr ?

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by BRG
.....But the musical world seems so far from motor sport as to be almost mutually incompatible.....

Yet writers note the 'rhythm' in a driver's manner of stringing perfect laps together...

And the sound of the right car on the right lap can be true music to our ears.

[E1pix]

I agree with Ray, and personally have found all creative pursuits to be identical in process — but simply using different tools.

One would never think mountaineering is similar to race driving, either, but to me they are nearly identical in execution.

[Doug Nye]

As in teetering upon the precipice?  I appreciate your point...

 

DCN

[2F-001]

One would never think mountaineering is similar to race driving, either, but to me they are nearly identical in execution.

Ukyo Katayama moved on to (serious) mountaineering after he'd finished with Grand Prix racing (or, perhaps rather, when racing had finished with him).

[E1pix]

I heard that… somewhere along the line.

As in teetering upon the precipice? I appreciate your point...

DCN

This is hard to explain…

If listed in order of first sold job, my career path starts were journo (14) -> mostly bad photos to go with somewhat-reasonable journoing (15th birthday) > helmet painting leading to race car painting (15) > hand-painted lettering (much of it race cars) and pinstriping, on anything (16) > pen and ink logos, illustrations, hand-stripped type and art for publishing (21) > scrapping and reinventing most of above on computer (28) > wilderness, racing, and travel photography for publishing and advertising (31) > almost all but brush and ink work continued perpetually (1975 to Present).

Damn, that really was hard…

What all these disparate creative functions showed in the end was that the thought process, the pre-envisioning, the nearly out-of-body mindset while immersed in the task (uncluttered by in-the-moment thoughts), the invariable improvements as fit, the work ethic, the proper music for the moment, everything — to me — is a nearly-identical pursuit.

I found the same mindsets making it much easier to quickly grasp karting, and not fall off mountains despite constant forces trying to yank us off (Rule 1: They. Don’t. Care.)

I highly suspect the music processes are also “the same,” as reported by my longtime musician friends. Only the tools and the end, physical form are different. Many won’t get my philosophies, and that’s okay. :-)

I will add that the ever-spreading infection of Science into my Art(s) is really chapping my hide at an increasing rate. It’s like growing grapes for fine wine just to end up making crappy energy drinks.

[Nick Planas]

As someone who briefly indulged in FFord, albeit with limited effect, and who regularly performs music professionally, I can vouch for the similarities. Although most of my regular musical performing nowadays takes place well within my comfort zone, there are times when e.g. I have to conduct a performance with limited rehearsal time, with perhaps a scratch professional orchestra of freelance players.

 

The pre-race / pre-performance nerves are much the same, and the amazing adrenaline rush once the race / performance starts is very similar, as are the levels of intense concentration required, which also make you feel very alive and aware of the moment.

 

Likewise the elation when it's over (especially if it went well), tinged with a slight sadness that the rest of the day/evening will be exceptionally mundane!

 

I'm sure this is the same for any activity requiring a great deal of skill and preparation. The main difference for me now is, if I make a small mistake I don't end up thumping a barrier...

[midgrid]

When I was learning to drive, my instructor was impressed by my natural pedal control and sensitivity, and asked me if I played the piano (I do!).

[rl1856]

There are several disciplines that would lead to skills etc easily transferable to racing.   Jackie Stewart was an Olympic Class shooter, and credited that experience with developing his hand eye coordination.  Roger Penske, Mark Donohue, and Jim Hall had engineering degrees and were able to translate their mechanical expertise to improved racing performance.  Music makes perfect sense; hand eye coordination, fine motor skills, ability to have both hands and feet operating independently of each other.

Edited by rl1856, 18 October 2024 - 12:40.

[B Squared]

Donohue

[PCC]

As someone who briefly indulged in FFord, albeit with limited effect, and who regularly performs music professionally, I can vouch for the similarities. Although most of my regular musical performing nowadays takes place well within my comfort zone, there are times when e.g. I have to conduct a performance with limited rehearsal time, with perhaps a scratch professional orchestra of freelance players.

 

The pre-race / pre-performance nerves are much the same, and the amazing adrenaline rush once the race / performance starts is very similar, as are the levels of intense concentration required, which also make you feel very alive and aware of the moment.

 

Likewise the elation when it's over (especially if it went well), tinged with a slight sadness that the rest of the day/evening will be exceptionally mundane!

 

I'm sure this is the same for any activity requiring a great deal of skill and preparation. The main difference for me now is, if I make a small mistake I don't end up thumping a barrier...

Nick, something I've pondered and perhaps you can enlighten me: Does Senna's (in)famous description of what almost amounts to an out-of-body experience at Monaco bear any analogy to a musician improvising a fast-paced solo? Particularly one that's going really well, even though you can't explain or a conscious or rational level why it's going well?

[BRG]

... ability to have both hands and feet operating independently of each other.

I rather think most of us can manage that.  I can walk with my feet whilst using my phone with my hands*.  I could even chew gum at the same time, if I chewed gum, which I don't.

 

* not that I usually do that either - I leave that to the phone zombies.

[Ray Bell]

Not forgetting Elio DeAngelis, of course...

[rl1856]

I rather think most of us can manage that.  I can walk with my feet whilst using my phone with my hands*.  I could even chew gum at the same time, if I chewed gum, which I don't.

 

* not that I usually do that either - I leave that to the phone zombies.

 

Walk and chew gum....pat your tummy and rub your head....  sure- most of us can do that !      Can the average person have each hand play a separate musical line on a piano at the same time, while also operating the pedal keys ?   Can the average person play ride cymbal, tom tom drum, and kick drum at the same time, and in synch with the rest of the band around you ?  That's why they can be make a living and we sit and listen (and in the case of drivers- watch) !

Edited by rl1856, 18 October 2024 - 12:43.

[BRG]

Can the average person have each hand play a separate musical line on a piano at the same time, while also operating the pedal keys ? 

 

Probably, yes.  I could back when I was learning piano, before I realised that I didn't enjoy it and stopped.  Back in the dark ages before TV and the internet, you made your own entertainment and a lot of people played piano.  Not virtuosos perhaps but perfectly capable of banging out a tune with a left hand accompaniment and some pedal action.   The average person seems to manage to drive cars with three pedals and a steering wheel, not to mention all those stalks and other controls.  I think you grossly underestimate the average person.

[Emery0323]

Wonderful.  When asked, Dan would speak very fondly of his parents. 

 

Which reminds me - Wasn't it Dan's father who came up with the idea of the "beak-shaped" noses on the AAR Eagles used in F1 and Indy / champcar in the 1960's?

I know I read that somewhere.

 

Related - Wasn't there supposed to be a Dan Gurney autobiography / memoir that was said to be in preparation in the later years of Dan's life (2010's) ? 

I recall Motorsport Magazine was supposed to do a "Lunch with..." extended interview piece with Dan Gurney back when he as still alive.

Unfortunately, Dan declined, saying he wanted to save the material for his memoirs.

[Ray Bell]

Did I hear somewhere that a top-line pianist makes something like 3000 decisions per minute?

[Nick Planas]

Nick, something I've pondered and perhaps you can enlighten me: Does Senna's (in)famous description of what almost amounts to an out-of-body experience at Monaco bear any analogy to a musician improvising a fast-paced solo? Particularly one that's going really well, even though you can't explain or a conscious or rational level why it's going well?

I don't recall ever being on the same intense mental level as Senna describes (perhaps a reason why I'm not one of the world's top flautists/flutists!) but I still often get moments where I let my fingers find their way around a tricky passage in a piece and part of me is aware that there is no conscious input to their movement - this is usually the result of intense practice though, so in a sense, it should be no more surprising than our ability to walk without falling over. In a different sense I have been deeply moved while conducting a favourite passage of music, but I try and 'pull myself back' from this as it's not fair on my players!

 

One think I've noticed though - we always perform better when the audience is noticably appreciative, and so I can understand when drivers say they can see the crowd waving them on, how it can boost their performance.

[Nick Planas]

Did I hear somewhere that a top-line pianist makes something like 3000 decisions per minute?

In one sense, perhaps, but they will have learnt a piece so intensely that the actual movements are completely automatic - then their emotional awareness allows them to make fine adjustments in their playing.

 

I am privileged to teach many young people, and when I get a very young student who appears to be a musical genius, it's often because they have an obsession with the instrument and just can't put it down, therefore they may play it three to four hours a day, school permitting. Then we think they're amazing (and to be fair, they're rare and very inspiring to teach).

 

Yet think of how a toddler learns to walk; how much they fall over, and instantly get up and try again. If they tried once a week, and then gave up trying the first time they fell over, like the average instrument learner, they'd struggle - yet we never look at a normal healthy 5-year old and say "Wow, doesn't she walk SO well, just like a grown up!" because the motivation (desperation) to walk has driven them to keep trying all their waking hours.

 

So, I am in awe of concert pianists, but rather than thinking of them as superhuman, I am just impressed by the amount of time and effort they have put into learning the instrument. Similarly, I am in awe of top line racing drivers as they handle a car at levels of skill and intensity I could only have dreamt of!