954 replies to this topic

[IrvTheSwerve]

Dear lord, I've decided to create a build-up thread for the first time ever - anything to put a halt to some of the crazy threads as of late!   

 

I've even included a poll - this thread is not for the light-hearted!

 

Please be upstanding:

 

Or of course, we have the alternative anthem:

 

Weekend schedule (UK times):

 

Weather:

 

Tyre information:

 

Standings:

 

We also have fake gravel introduced:

https://www.pitinsid...th-fake-gravel/

 

[Autodromo]

Dear lord, I've decided to create a build-up thread for the first time ever - anything to put a halt to some of the crazy threads as of late!   

 

I've even included a poll - this thread is not for the light-hearted!

 

 

We also have fake gravel introduced:

https://www.pitinsid...th-fake-gravel/

Thanks for starting this!  Technically, of course, it is not fake gravel, but a fake gravel trap.  It's real gravel, but glued down.

Edited by Autodromo, 16 October 2024 - 13:04.

[Heyli]

These session times are all over the place. Weird, but looking forward to this weekend. Will be an important one!

[sportyskells]

I wonder if we finally get a safety car this weekend 

[IrvTheSwerve]

These session times are all over the place. Weird, but looking forward to this weekend. Will be an important one!

 

Yeah, sadly in the UK I think I'll be watching a lot of this on catch-up. Will probably watch the Sprint and GP live though.

[DJH63]

With the single practice session I’d expect a pretty unstressful Norris win. Question will be whether RB’s upgrade package will be enough to get Verstappen onto the podium.

[LolaB0860]

In addition to F1 and Porsches there are four Historic support races, the MEL races have 3 different kind of Corvettes for that ultimate USA power

https://mastershisto...24_entry_list-1

There's no Lola B0860 but there is Lola B1260

Edited by LolaB0860, 16 October 2024 - 13:15.

[TomNokoe]

Nice one, Swerve.

 

The track has been resurfaced, but it seems they've done a very good job. The WEC 6hr race last month (link) ran without a hitch, plenty of grip, so I suspect zero issues for F1.

 

A few question marks over general tyre chemistry, warmup, degradation and so on, but they will be answered over the weekend. I suspect it's moved closer to a one stop, which Leclerc already managed last year.

[SenorSjon]

Nice one, Swerve.

 

The track has been resurfaced, but it seems they've done a very good job. The WEC 6hr race last month (link) ran without a hitch, plenty of grip, so I suspect zero issues for F1.

 

A few question marks over general tyre chemistry, warmup, degradation and so on, but they will be answered over the weekend. I suspect it's moved closer to a one stop, which Leclerc already managed last year.

 

And when in doubt, Pirelli will add psi.

[Goron3]

The circuit will likely be faster with the new tarmac but I hope the deg is still high.

 

This is another event where I wish the Hard tyre was a step harder to encourage more stops on softer tyres, or a one stopper on much slower rubber.

 

Either way, hope the changes to the run off zones works and we see less track limit drama. 

[Anja]

To keep up with recent forum traditions the build up thread should've been made from the one about the month gap, or even the one about fake gravel traps... 

[eibyyz]

Thanks for starting this!  Technically, of course, it is not fake gravel, but a fake gravel trap.  It's real gravel, but glued down.

 

I haven't been following this--is this epoxied pea-gravel, like around a bougie swimming pool or porte cochere?

[eibyyz]

Will Towriss be there?  Unlikely that Michael will.

 

How about RIC?

 

Kamala wearing headphones in the Merc pit? 

Edited by eibyyz, 16 October 2024 - 16:39.

[AustinF1]

Nice one, Swerve.

 

The track has been resurfaced, but it seems they've done a very good job. The WEC 6hr race last month (link) ran without a hitch, plenty of grip, so I suspect zero issues for F1.

 

A few question marks over general tyre chemistry, warmup, degradation and so on, but they will be answered over the weekend. I suspect it's moved closer to a one stop, which Leclerc already managed last year.

Only a portion of it's been resurfaced. This will definitely help, at least temporarily, but it's just like all the numerous other times they've done bump grinding and resurfacing. Business as usual. Patchwork. As for how good of a job they've done, it's the local, cheap guys they've used for years, so I'd expect similar results as the last few years of resurfacing they've done so far.

 

They keep saying 'it's a new surface' etc, but unless they went ahead with a full resufacing since WEC was out there last month (which seems suboptimal and unlikely), it's more of the usual from COTA.

 

They finally resurfaced the front straight - which has needed it badly for several years - and resurfaced again down to T2 (3rd or 4th time so far), and some smaller bits elsewhere that had already been resurfaced before as well. The front straight was the only remaining bit that had never been resurfaced, so Epstein's running around telling everyone who will listen that they finally 'resurfaced/renewed the track', which is only true in the sense that now none of the original surface remains. It's an improvement over last year, at least in the limited areas that were just resurfaced (mostly just the front straight), but there will still be multiple different ages of surfaces throughout the track. This is just more of the same grinding of bumps and then adding a new top layer, same as they've been doing for years, and will continue to do. The bumps just keep popping up. There will be some this year that weren't there last year, and some that have shifted or gotten worse, etc.

Edited by AustinF1, 16 October 2024 - 21:43.

[AustinF1]

The circuit will likely be faster with the new tarmac but I hope the deg is still high.

 

This is another event where I wish the Hard tyre was a step harder to encourage more stops on softer tyres, or a one stopper on much slower rubber.

 

Either way, hope the changes to the run off zones works and we see less track limit drama. 

Most of the surface hasn't changed a bit since last year, so I'm guessing the deg will still be high. The latest resurfacing is probably roughly 0.75-ish miles of the 3.4 mile length. Most of that was done on the front straight, so depending on the grip levels there, it could help (or even hurt I suppose) on the exit of 20 and the entry to and exit of 1.

Edited by AustinF1, 16 October 2024 - 19:02.

[LolaB0860]

Who cares about the surface and racing, didn't you hear that this weekend is all about parties and concerts? 

 

In fact, Motorsport.com's top current front page headliner story is now:

 

Meet the Austin nightlife king who puts F1 drivers into DJ booths

https://www.motorspo...tlife/10661485/

Jack Zimmerman has built a small empire by bringing Vegas-worthy, Austin-inflected parties — the kind that end up with Lando Norris accidentally DJ’ing — to a city of boots and beers.

 

Edited by LolaB0860, 16 October 2024 - 19:07.

[IrvTheSwerve]

I heard a rumour that ‘hawk tuah’ girl was waving the chequered flag…

[jonpollak]

Oh Hell Yeah, after giving MBS that sloppy bro job he said would get her a pass...

 

Thanks for the thread Irv.

 

Jp

[krapmeister]

Supposedly there is a bit of a brouhaha developing over front bub bib height adjustment - the FIA is apparently going to be checking on these at the USGP...

https://www.motorspo...trick/10663272/

Edited by krapmeister, 16 October 2024 - 22:38.

[1player]

I miss the racing, but having taken time off from this forum, from all the drama and continuous media circus, from fans and journos, getting back to it feels like getting back to the office after a month on holiday. I am starting to really dislike this aspect of the sport, and the constant need to have something new on the front page.

 

/rant

 

So, who's favourite this weekend?

Edited by 1player, 16 October 2024 - 21:45.

[aportinga]

I miss the racing, but having taken time off from this forum, from all the drama and continuous media circus, from fans and journos, getting back to it feels like getting back to the office after a month on holiday. I am starting to really dislike this aspect of the sport, and the constant need to have something new on the front page.

 

/rant

 

So, who's favourite this weekend?

 

Mansell of course - it's Texas!

[Nemo1965]

As nice background: an extensive story about the ill-fated (financially and weather wise) 1984 Dallas GP:

https://archive.is/2...x-failure-heat/

‘The day that F1 melted.’

Edited by Nemo1965, 16 October 2024 - 22:01.

[noikeee]

 

Who cares about the surface and racing, didn't you hear that this weekend is all about parties and concerts? 

 

In fact, Motorsport.com's top current front page headliner story is now:

 

Meet the Austin nightlife king who puts F1 drivers into DJ booths

https://www.motorspo...tlife/10661485/

Jack Zimmerman has built a small empire by bringing Vegas-worthy, Austin-inflected parties — the kind that end up with Lando Norris accidentally DJ’ing — to a city of boots and beers.

 

 

 

I heard a rumour that ‘hawk tuah’ girl was waving the chequered flag…

 

 

[loki]

So, who's favourite this weekend?

 

Imma go with Haliey Welch.

[jonpollak]

I hope she is cashing out on her lugey !!!
Jp

[jonpollak]

Sorry , monetizing…
Jp

[vlado]

https://www.autospor...trick/10663277/

 

Hm

Edited by vlado, 17 October 2024 - 00:19.

[loki]

Sorry , monetizing…
Jp

 

Theres rumblings of a cool half a mil so far.  It’s on the internet so it must be true.  Much to my disappointment she won’t be in the flag stand.  It was a troll.  One that hooked Newey hook, line and sinker in a now deleted post railing on the FIA for allowing it.  Not at all wholesome like a coworker pleasuring himself in an airplane lav.  However she did seal a deal with Kick to promote the streaming site.  Maybe Brundle can catch her on the grid walk…

[pup]

I hope she is cashing out on her lugey !!!
Jp

Something’s got to glue that gravel down.

[John B]

As nice background: an extensive story about the ill-fated (financially and weather wise) 1984 Dallas GP:

https://archive.is/2...x-failure-heat/

‘The day that F1 melted.’

At least it broke up the McLaren monotony that year...

Weren't the Can Am cars the ones that really tore the track up during a Saturday race?

[Beri]

I wonder if we finally get a safety car this weekend 

 

If not, then we have got 10 races in a row without a Safety Car. Since its inception the "record" stands at 11 races in a row without a safety car. As stated in the Dude, where's my Safetycar Thread:
 

So the 9 races, and counting now, is the longest streak in 20 years of no safety car.

The record stands at 11. Which was first set, eerily enough, after it's appearance in the 1994 San Marino Grand Prix. 11 races later, it appeared at the Japanese Grand Prix.

Then again there was an 11 race streak from Australia 1995 till Hungary 1996. And then once more an 11 race streak from the 1997 Italian Grand Prix till the Grand Prix of Monaco in 1998.

[Collombin]

At least it broke up the McLaren monotony that year...

Weren't the Can Am cars the ones that really tore the track up during a Saturday race?

McLaren lost all the North American races, but sadly there were no PAYR regional trophies to award in those days.

The FIA waived its rule about running a trial event first, and although the "Can-Am" cars of 1984 were hardly the same as the Group 7 monsters of the real Can-Am era, they certainly did plenty of damage.

For all its problems though, the Dallas race was easily the best of 1984 (a low bar to clear admittedly), and one of the best of the decade.

[Beri]

Supposedly there is a bit of a brouhaha developing over front bub bib height adjustment - the FIA is apparently going to be checking on these at the USGP...

https://www.motorspo...trick/10663272/

 

Thats plain and simple cheating. I wonder which team is the suspected violator here.

[PayasYouRace]

If not, then we have got 10 races in a row without a Safety Car. Since its inception the "record" stands at 11 races in a row without a safety car. As stated in the Dude, where's my Safetycar Thread:

Not that it affects the record but there was no 11 race streak from Australia 1995. There were two safety car deployments in 1996: Argentina and Belgium, which were rounds 3 and 13. So a nine race streak that year.

[southernstars]

If not, then we have got 10 races in a row without a Safety Car. Since its inception the "record" stands at 11 races in a row without a safety car. As stated in the Dude, where's my Safetycar Thread:
 

 

I cannot see us getting 11. I could see us going without this weekend, but we surely don't escape Mexico without one. But then I thought that about Singapore, too.

[Beri]

Not that it affects the record but there was no 11 race streak from Australia 1995. There were two safety car deployments in 1996: Argentina and Belgium, which were rounds 3 and 13. So a nine race streak that year.

 

I took it from a Motorsports.com article. But youre right. Good detective work!

[PayasYouRace]

I took it from a Motorsports.com article. But youre right. Good detective work!

I was rewatching the 1996 season review the other day.

[Beri]

How Alesi didnt score a win that season is beyond me.

[jonklug]

It's been 84 years... but F1 is back! 

 

Is it just me or has this break felt much longer than the summer one? 

[Beri]

It's been 84 years... but F1 is back! 

 

Is it just me or has this break felt much longer than the summer one? 

 

Its not you alone. Its us two together at least.

[Heyli]

Me too. 

 

Key difference is that we had the olympics to keep me entertained for a big part of the summer break!

[jcbc3]

Thats plain and simple cheating. I wonder which team is the suspected violator here.

 

We've been there before: https://www.grandpri...ontroversy.html

 

And that was deemed 'not cheating, but change the car for next race'. For consistency let's hope that's the same outcome here.

[LegendInTheMaking]

As nice background: an extensive story about the ill-fated (financially and weather wise) 1984 Dallas GP:

https://archive.is/2...x-failure-heat/

‘The day that F1 melted.’

 

This is illustrative for the many attempts to organize GP's in the USA that were short-lived. There have been 11 different sites that have hosted a race, more than any other country. However, when ignoring the Indy 500 races, COTA is by now the second most used venue behind Watkins Glen. To take a trip down memory lane:

 

Sebring had a single race in 1959. It was the racing dream of Alec Ulmann to have a US GP. There are plenty of stories with this GP: Harry Schell took third place in qualifying by cutting a corner, Bruce McLaren took his first win, Brabham pushed his car over the finish line, it was the last race until Monaco 1994 to have no WDC present and it was the final race to feature points for the fastest lap until this was reinstated in 2019. Financially it was not a success as the crowd was just half the size of 12-hours of Sebring and lavish gifts to the winners, so Ulmann made up his mind and decided to move elsewhere.

 

So for 1960, Ulmann moved to Riverside, California. However, he made a big mistake: he positioned F1 as the pinnacle of motor sports. The track owner and local media were insulted and completely ignored him. The result was again a mediocre crowd and despite a good race, it was a financial disaster. 

 

In 1961 the race moved to Watkins Glen and it finally found a favorable home for year to come. It hosted 20 consecutive races until 1980, by which it had become too unsafe for the modern, faster F1 cars, as illustrated by the deathly accidents of Cevert and Koinigg. 

 

In the meantime, F1 had also returned to the West Coast, where it had 8 races from 1976 to 1983. The race was well-liked and had great scenery, but it was not a financial success. The organizers moved from F1 to CART in 1984 and it's still an integral part of the Indycar calendar today. In its final race, John Watson took his McLaren from 22nd on the grid to victory. 

 

The replacement for Watkins Glen effectively was the Ceasars Palace GP in Las Vegas, which was held in 1981 and 1982. It was commonly hated by drivers for its boring layout, the location on Ceasars Palace' carpark and intense heat. Piquet took his first title there and Alboreto his first win. Again, it was a financial disaster. Even though Bernie Ecclestone had been pushing for F1 to get to Vegas, crowds were small and the hotel took a big loss. 

ps. Las Vegas did look a bit different back then, isn't it?

 

For 1982, Detroit was added as a third US race. Held in June, it more than anything suffered from hot weather that amplified the difficulties of an already challenging track of temporary basis. Retirements were common and thus unexpected results as well. In 1984 Brundle, finished second in his DFV-powered Tyrrell, but was disqualified after the finding of 'impurities' in its cooling water, which was topped up during the race, leading to accusations of refuelling during the race. In 1986 and 1987 there were a lot of issues with track breakup, so 1988 would be the last race in Detroit. Fittingly, it was even hotter that year and the problems even worse.

 

In 1984, the replacement for the Long Beach GP effectively was the Dallas GP. Given the experiences in Detroit, one could wonder how sensible it would to have a race in Dallas in the middle of summer, but they went ahead anyways. During the entire weekend there were significant problems with the track surface and Prost and Lauda even threatened to boycott the event. Ultimately it was decided to race three hours earlier to avoid the worst of the heat. Keke Rosberg took victory and Mansell, like Brabham 25 years before, pushed his car across the finish line, before fainting. 

 

After leaving Detroit, F1 moved to Phoenix, which held the US GP from 1989 to 1991. All races were won by McLaren and possibly the most remembered thing is Jean Alesi's claim for fame by finishing second in his Tyrrell in 1990. After 1991 the contract was cancelled by Bernie Ecclestone, as he told the circuit could not host more spectators, but allegedly it was to make room for a race in post-apartheid South Africa.

 

In 2000, Ecclestone made another attempt for a US GP, this time at the holy ground of the IMS. With a layout partly using the oval and partly using the inner road course, it featured good racing and strong crowds, until a complete and utter failure happened in 2005, with all Michelin running cars retiring before the start due to safety concerns. Its reputation did not recover and the race was cancelled after 2007.

 

After the successful addition of COTA, F1's new owners aimed at expending their US footprint. In 2022 they added Miami. One might remember Verstappen's win from ninth place in 2023, or Norris' first win this year, but it all feels a bit bland. Miami is such a vibrant city, but we're racing around a football stadium on a track with a fake marina. Why? 

 

Finally, the latest addition is the Las Vegas Strip Circuit. Not to be confused with the Ceasars Palace parking lot circuit (see comparison on the map below). It is definitely a showcase of Las Vegas as it is today: loud and in your face. However, last years' race was actually pretty good, so we'll see how this turns out in the future.

[JimmyClark]

It's been 84 years... but F1 is back!

Is it just me or has this break felt much longer than the summer one?

Definitely. I think as I was on holiday in the summer it flew by. This time it has been a slide into cold weather and a football international break too, so it's felt a long one.

[jonpollak]

Thanks for the wonderful retrospective on the many USGP’s Legendin. !!!!

I can count 7 that were graced with my attendance.
The Glen, LB, LV,Detroit, Dallas, PHX, IMS.

Jp

[Nemo1965]

McLaren lost all the North American races, but sadly there were no PAYR regional trophies to award in those days.

The FIA waived its rule about running a trial event first, and although the "Can-Am" cars of 1984 were hardly the same as the Group 7 monsters of the real Can-Am era, they certainly did plenty of damage.

For all its problems though, the Dallas race was easily the best of 1984 (a low bar to clear admittedly), and one of the best of the decade.

What! What did you think of Portugal, the grand finish in 1984? Or Sennas drive in Monaco; or that whole GP btw?

[LolaB0860]

I cannot see us getting 11. I could see us going without this weekend, but we surely don't escape Mexico without one. But then I thought that about Singapore, too.

Mexico GP is usually dull procession and there have only been 3 safety cars there between 2015-2023

[Collombin]

What! What did you think of Portugal, the grand finish in 1984? Or Sennas drive in Monaco; or that whole GP btw?

Monaco was interesting of course but there were very few cars circulating towards the end and I was disappointed that it stopped when it did.

Portugal was a nail biter but only for the title implications, and I hated the outcome - although if Lauda had caught and passed Mansell rather than just inherited the place then I would have said fair enough and well done.

[SenorSjon]

As nice background: an extensive story about the ill-fated (financially and weather wise) 1984 Dallas GP:

https://archive.is/2...x-failure-heat/

‘The day that F1 melted.’

 

Yet we race in deserts these days. Qatar was more brutal.

 

How Alesi didnt score a win that season is beyond me.

 

If you watch the season reviews you could see Alesi messing up high potential chances by the dozen. Way worse than I remember.

[Grippy]

Yet we race in deserts these days. Qatar was more brutal.

 

 

If you watch the season reviews you could see Alesi messing up high potential chances by the dozen. Way worse than I remember.

I don't think they had in-car drinks bottles in the '80s, so dehydration was more of a problem then.