222 replies to this topic

[geralt]

This is genius not gonna lie, reminds me of the DAS

[brucewayne]

to adjust right height which is legal.

So this is more a FIA problem? FIA has to make sure that the teams can’t change the height after Qualifying.

[MikeTekRacing]

i made earlier the analogy with the refuelling. It is forbidden during the races, but all cars have systems onboard to make sure they are refueled at some point during the weekend (pretty obvious why).

 

If Red Bull's system is easier to access and could POTENTIALLY be used during the weekend - ask the team to move it, lock it, put a seal as they do on engines etc. 

My understanding is they are aware of the system (which is legal), and they asked Red Bull to make some changes so it can't be used at the wrong times.

If there is proof this has been used the car(s) have to be DSQ from those races. 

[Ste678]

Red Bull must be utter idiots failing to set up their cars for months with all the supposed gizmos they have (had) according to this forum.
Possible, but maybe not!

[Beri]

If the system was in place, the issue is that the FIA can't penalize Red Bull.
But if the FIA or any team has any hard evidence in Red Bull using this system, then should get a hefty penalty for blatantly cheating.

[MikeTekRacing]

If the system was in place, the issue is that the FIA can't penalize Red Bull.
But if the FIA or any team has any hard evidence in Red Bull using this system, then should get a hefty penalty for blatantly cheating.

DSQ and a massive fine if there is proof of this.

That's massive cheating

[Beri]

I fully agree

[renzmann]

Calm down... If it had been a device that can be used while driving, surely the FIA could have proven tha as it would have had a very visible effect. It's a nothing burger.

[Bloggsworth]

Curious wich team used it but we probably will never find out. I am no technical expert but how much performance gain is there to be had with such a trick?

If it's aerodynamic, a hell of a lot - The difference between Leclerc and Hamilton being disqualified last year for instance...

[Bliman]

If the system was in place, the issue is that the FIA can't penalize Red Bull.
But if the FIA or any team has any hard evidence in Red Bull using this system, then should get a hefty penalty for blatantly cheating.

But do the other teams have the same system or not?

[Bloggsworth]

Calm down... If it had been a device that can be used while driving, surely the FIA could have proven tha as it would have had a very visible effect. It's a nothing burger.

Oh how naive can one be - Mechanic leans into car after qualifying to "steer" it back into the garage, meanwhile flipping the lever that increases the tea-try clearance, car examined, all tickity-boo and off to the races. 2mm is a big change in aerodynamic terms, it's a Big Mac with bacon, cheese, gherkins, lettuce and tomatoes - They wouldn't have done it if it hadn't made a measurable difference.

[FirstnameLastname]

Caught red(bull) handed

[pup]

DSQ and a massive fine if there is proof of this.

But there isn't and won't be.  That's not how the FIA plays the game today.

[Wes350]

“It’s there… but we don’t use it!”

 

[uzsjgb]

So this is more a FIA problem? FIA has to make sure that the teams can’t change the height after Qualifying.

 

It seems this is something the FIA cannot just measure, otherwise they wouldn't be talking about seals. Can someone explain why they can't just measure after qualifying, before the race and after the race? I asuume measurements would not be exact due to fuel loads.

[Bliman]

It is weird that they had too change the car. Why would that be? To me that is only because they can use this mechanism for illegal things. Unless someone knows other reasons.

[uzsjgb]

This is genius not gonna lie, reminds me of the DAS

 

To know if it is genius we must know how much time is saved by using this device instead of just turning the screw with a screwdriver. Some parts still have to be disassembled to use it, so you can't just come into the pits, use the device and drive out again. But if you have to disassemble and assemble less parts than the teams without such a device you may be saving minutes, which saves time when setting up the car in free practice. Is that really genius?

 

As multiple articles state the other teams also have similar devices. They aren't stupid, changing the tray height is done constantly, every team will have sought to optimize this procedure.

[uzsjgb]

It is weird that they had too change the car. Why would that be? To me that is only because they can use this mechanism for illegal things. Unless someone knows other reasons.

 

I can recall a lot of practice sessions where the Mercedes were practically scraping along the straights, creating a lot of sparks, drivers complaining about the car being too low. So they come into the pits and the height of the tray is adjusted. They go out again, maybe it's too high now and it gets lowered a millimeter. Then they do a run with a full fuel load and adjust it again. Maybe the circuit is bumpier than the computer simulations calculated, so the intial car setup is too low.

 

Can you see why it would be benificial to save time when making these changes?

[pup]

Give it up man.

[carlb5253]

This team are just a joke.

They have as much integrity as their team principal.

Sooner they leave F1 the better.

[carlb5253]

Calm down... If it had been a device that can be used while driving, surely the FIA could have proven tha as it would have had a very visible effect. It's a nothing burger.

Nonsense.

Think about it. They could alter the height just enough to get away it, so that it isn’t a very visible effect but an effect nonetheless

[arrysen]

Details of exactly how the Red Bull "accessed from the cockpit" system works.

 

No valves, no quick levers, cannot be accessed with the driver in the car. Here is the key information:

It’s understood the facility to adjust the bib on the car does exist and is, technically, in the cockpit.

However, the adjustment sits within the footwell and hence cannot be accessed with the driver in place.

Further, the screw mechanism is located under the heel support – essentially the element that supports the driver’s feet – and requires the use of a tool to adjust.

To be accessed, mechanics must remove the nose cone, a separate panel, and a carbon section within the footwell in a process that requires multiple mechanics to perform quickly.

The ability to perform those actions under parc ferme conditions without attracting the ire of officials is therefore slim.

 

[Sleepflower]

Red Bull must be utter idiots failing to set up their cars for months with all the supposed gizmos they have (had) according to this forum.
Possible, but maybe not!

I mean, you can cheat and be not very good at the same time. Hardly the strongest defence there.