733 replies to this topic

[Analog]

If I had a doctors appointment booked in advance and didn't tell my employer and agreed to attend a meeting at the same time, I would expect some come-back form it. As I say, if it was a last-minute emergency, then fine. But if it was just "I feel a bit unwell, I think I will see the doctor", I'd let my employer know what was happening in time enough so that they could organise a replacement for me. If I thought "I can go to the doctors and still make the meeting", then unless it was something bad, I'd expect to be in a bit of trouble about it if I couldn't make it back in time.

Well, imagine then that you have spent almost 2 hours doing something pretty dangerous under extreme physical and mental stress. You feel something is off to the extent that decide to visit the medical facility. How much of a concern do you think that the national anthems are to you at that moment? Also, a "meeting" that you are supposed to attend probably depends to a certain degree on your presence, the playing of someone elses national anthem does not.

[SophieB]

If anything, that makes it worse.  If they knew the circumstances, surely the just and decent thing would be to waive any penalty?

I don’t know what to tell you, I think it sounds mad. From the decision doc:
 
“…is noted that the Penalty Guidelines prescribed in Appendix B of the FIA
International Sporting Code, list a penalty for this offence, of €60,000. However in
mitigation, the Driver stated that just prior to the Anthem, he experienced discomfort
due a stomach issue which delayed his appearance on the grid. This was verified by
Dr Messina of Med-Ex who confirmed the issue and stated he had provided
appropriate medication for the Driver.
Notwithstanding the above, displaying respect for the National Anthem is a high
priority and all parties need to consider every eventuality in planning to be in position
for the Anthem by the required time. Hence a penalty similar to that imposed for a
similar breach in Canada in 2024, is imposed.”
 

[pdac]

I think it’s implied he didn’t know in advance he was going to urgently need the toilet so no. 
 

(Just speaking as a poster not a mod, I think you’re being a bit weird about this, tbh and am very glad I don’t work for you!)

 

I think I can see things from the point of view of the others who were let down. It's not like he is totally independent. If you are to be a focus in a gathering of many people, then you need to consider them as well as yourself. There are expectations placed upon you and if you cannot meet them, the onus will be on you to mitigate the effects.

 

But also, as I said, it is known that failure to attend will result in a fine. I'm not saying he should have gotten off of his death-bed to attend, merely that the fine was to be expected and it's unreasonable to complain about something that you've signed up for and, therefore, agreed to already.

Edited by pdac, 11 April 2025 - 11:11.

[PayasYouRace]

I don’t know what to tell you, I think it sounds mad. From the decision doc:

“…is noted that the Penalty Guidelines prescribed in Appendix B of the FIA
International Sporting Code, list a penalty for this offence, of €60,000. However in
mitigation, the Driver stated that just prior to the Anthem, he experienced discomfort
due a stomach issue which delayed his appearance on the grid. This was verified by
Dr Messina of Med-Ex who confirmed the issue and stated he had provided
appropriate medication for the Driver.
Notwithstanding the above, displaying respect for the National Anthem is a high
priority and all parties need to consider every eventuality in planning to be in position
for the Anthem by the required time. Hence a penalty similar to that imposed for a
similar breach in Canada in 2024, is imposed.”

I’m uncomfortable with the way the FIA requires the drivers to stand for the anthem. They never did in the old days. The anthem was for dignitaries and for the assembled spectators mostly. Loved how during all the ceremonies the teams would just be getting on with their prep. Made them seem more professional and focused.

Seems the change has come about with increased visits to countries ruled by totalitarian regimes. The it’s become so forced now that even a medical emergency doesn’t excuse you from missing it is, well, as you say, mad.

[SophieB]

I think I can see things from the point of view of the others who were let down. It's not like he is totally independent. If you are to be a focus in a gathering of many people, then you need to consider them as well as yourself. There are expectations placed upon you and if you cannot meet them, the onus will be on you to mitigate the effects.

 

But also, as I said, it is known that failure to attend will result in a fine. I'm not saying he should have gotten off of his death-bed to attend, merely that the fine was to be expected and it's unreasonable to complain about something that you've signed up for and, therefore, agreed to already.

Fascinating. This suggests you’d still fine him thousands of euros even if he was rushed to hospital, with a few quid knocked off because he couldn’t help it. After all, the anthem singers would still be still let down, right? That IS who you mean by ‘the others who were let down’?

[SophieB]

I’m uncomfortable with the way the FIA requires the drivers to stand for the anthem. They never did in the old days. The anthem was for dignitaries and for the assembled spectators mostly. Loved how during all the ceremonies the teams would just be getting on with their prep. Made them seem more professional and focused.

Seems the change has come about with increased visits to countries ruled by totalitarian regimes. The it’s become so forced now that even a medical emergency doesn’t excuse you from missing it is, well, as you say, mad.

Yeah, I am pretty sure the drivers being summoned for national anthems came in as part of Bernie bringing the GP to Russia. The Russian GP now long gone, yet here we still are.

[Broekschaap]

I don't know when it started, but I do know the 60.000 penalty for F1 drivers started this year. Drivers used to get a reprimand for missing the anthem. Then Yuki got 10.000 last year (the stewards thought a more severe punishment was warranted) and this year the norm was raised towards 60.000.

[PlatenGlass]

I thought he'd gone for a poo, not seen a doctor. And was five seconds late back.

[Analog]

I thought he'd gone for a poo, not seen a doctor. And was five seconds late back.

As I understand, the poo was chemically induced with the assistance of trained professionals. 

[macjim]

It's made cnn now..........

 

https://edition.cnn....intl/index.html

 

Williams driver Carlos Sainz could face a further fine after swearing in a press conference when criticizing a penalty he received at last week’s Japanese Grand Prix.

The Spaniard was fined €10,000 (around $11,340) by the FIA, motorsport’s world governing body, for arriving late on the grid for the national anthem in Suzuka.

 

The optics look pretty poor......no doubt it will come down to the rules are the rules and no room for common sense - Typical of the FIA these days!

[Gareth]

I don't know when it started, but I do know the 60.000 penalty for F1 drivers started this year. Drivers used to get a reprimand for missing the anthem. Then Yuki got 10.000 last year (the stewards thought a more severe punishment was warranted) and this year the norm was raised towards 60.000.

It'll be €120,000 for him if he misses another anthem, or interview pen, or similar within the next two years

 

Suspect MBS will be spiking drivers' drinks with laxatives. Nice little earner for him, this.

[JimmyClark]

I think I can see things from the point of view of the others who were let down. It's not like he is totally independent. If you are to be a focus in a gathering of many people, then you need to consider them as well as yourself. There are expectations placed upon you and if you cannot meet them, the onus will be on you to mitigate the effects.

But also, as I said, it is known that failure to attend will result in a fine. I'm not saying he should have gotten off of his death-bed to attend, merely that the fine was to be expected and it's unreasonable to complain about something that you've signed up for and, therefore, agreed to already.

If he has last minute stomach issues before going into the race start procedure, then it's best to get them checked quickly to make sure it's nothing serious and even if just a stomach bug, then arrangements need to be made for extra fluids in a race, etc. Frankly the anthem is less important than potentially having medical problems at 150mph.

[Myrvold]

If he has last minute stomach issues before going into the race start procedure, then it's best to get them checked quickly to make sure it's nothing serious and even if just a stomach bug, then arrangements need to be made for extra fluids in a race, etc. Frankly the anthem is less important than potentially having medical problems at 150mph.

No no. Just think about how disappointed someone might be.

[Clatter]

You do have to wonder how the sport survived for 50 something years without the drivers having to stand at the front of the grid.

[MikeTekRacing]

I think I can see things from the point of view of the others who were let down. It's not like he is totally independent. If you are to be a focus in a gathering of many people, then you need to consider them as well as yourself. There are expectations placed upon you and if you cannot meet them, the onus will be on you to mitigate the effects.

 

But also, as I said, it is known that failure to attend will result in a fine. I'm not saying he should have gotten off of his death-bed to attend, merely that the fine was to be expected and it's unreasonable to complain about something that you've signed up for and, therefore, agreed to already.

just wow. you are (or would be) a horrible manager if this is how you view things.

The fine is expected for someone that became sick before their big work. Sainz was going to start driving an F1 car in a matter of minutes feeling bad. 

So at your company, if the employee was supposed to be on stage in a matter of minutes you'd fine them if they had to see a doctor and missed the meet & greet chit chat 15min before his presentation.

 

"you agreed to it, the deduction in your salary is expected even if you were seeing this doctor. your team mates were let down"

 

absolutely incredible. 

Edited by MikeTekRacing, 11 April 2025 - 14:36.

[pdac]

Fascinating. This suggests you’d still fine him thousands of euros even if he was rushed to hospital, with a few quid knocked off because he couldn’t help it. After all, the anthem singers would still be still let down, right? That IS who you mean by ‘the others who were let down’?

 

I think I made it clear, earlier, that I make a distinction between a serious medical problem and a general visit to the doctor.

[MikeTekRacing]

I think I made it clear, earlier, that I make a distinction between a serious medical problem and a general visit to the doctor.

"a general visit"

do you think he scheduled his yearly blood tests and forgot the anthem?

the guy was feeling bad and went to see a doctor. he got a fine for missing a part of the anthem.

[Ruusperi]

You do have to wonder how the sport survived for 50 something years without the drivers having to stand at the front of the grid.

64 years exactly. It was Vladimir Putin's idea to have them stay silent during national anthem. https://www.pitpass....pect-for-anthem

 

Before that it was common for Brundle to do interviews while the anthem was playing in the background.

[loki]

Anthems at races (or sporting events in general) shouldn’t be a thing.  Serves no purpose.

[loki]

 

do you think he scheduled his yearly blood tests and forgot the anthem?

Colonoscopy…

[BRG]

I think I can see things from the point of view of the others who were let down.

 

Just for the record, who exactly do you think was "let down"?   If someone wasn't taking attendance, would anyone have even noticed that Sainz wasn't present for the very first note of the anthem?  This whole matter is petty beyond belief.

[IrvTheSwerve]

The thing I don’t like about it is that it’s unfair to drivers further down the grid. They have to eat into their prep time to make their way to the front while the pole-sitter has a ten second walk. Just have them all stand by their cars…I understand that they all want them together though.

[Sterzo]

I'm actually glad this has happened. Having a tune to represent a country is silly. Standing silently while it's played is silly. Showing respect to a dirge-like tune is silly. Compelling people to attend the silly playing of a silly song is silly. Fining a Spaniard with the shitzz for being slightly late to look silly while a silly tune is played is pure Monty Python. Bring it on, I want more.

[OvDrone]

This is just an exercise in exerting authority, nothing else.

[jonpollak]

Where does the money go??
Jp

[jonpollak]

Here’s Albon and Russell on the price of a tummy bug.
https://www.reddit.c...a1/s/CwtXRpyusX

Jp

[OvDrone]

Where does the money go??
Jp

[FLB]

Where does the money go??
Jp

Financial Report – FIA Activity Report 2023

 

See Point 3.1 of the Financial Highlights, p.13. Hiring and firing people costs money...

[ArnageWRC]

This is just an exercise in exerting authority, nothing else.

 

Someone who gets it....

 

It was never an issue for 40-50 years, and now drivers have to appear on the front of the grid for the host country's Anthem........What a load of nonsense. To hand out a fine for a driver being late, because he was seeing a doctor is about as petty as it gets. But this is the current day FiA.

[Analog]

Well, both Piastri and Russel got away with mentioning the Devil's empire  during the post race interviews and got away with it, so either MBS has enough for his new yacht or his monitoring system is broken.

[pdac]

Someone who gets it....

 

It was never an issue for 40-50 years, and now drivers have to appear on the front of the grid for the host country's Anthem........What a load of nonsense. To hand out a fine for a driver being late, because he was seeing a doctor is about as petty as it gets. But this is the current day FiA.

 

That's called marketing and it's (although I hate it too) all part of selling sports and enabling huge amounts of money to be generated. In the past, for example, sports people would win a match and be able to go to their dressing room to have a shower and freshen up before attending a press interview. Now they are interviewed seconds after the event - and they are obliged to do it. Like it or not, that's what professional sport has become.

[7MGTEsup]

If I were Carlos, I would be in the next press conference having eaten something I know would give me terrible gas and just keep dropping my guts to stink the place out. But then again I'm a sadistic malicious compliance type of person.

[ATM]

Bacon, beans and onion should do the trick nicely. Nothing too extravagant, tested as safe by passed generations. But I wouldn't condemn some poor unfortunate journalists to this; I'd stage it at the next GPDA-FIA meeting. He îs, after al, co-chairman, he's bound to be invited. And if he can wiggle în the organizing board and provide a smaller room without opening windows, all the better.


(For 10.000 $, I know I would).

Edited by ATM, 14 April 2025 - 22:35.

[404KF2]

He should have done a huge liquid shart on the stage, that'd show 'em.