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Brazil GP 2024: Race and Quali day with Quali @10.30am GMT, Race @3.30pm GMT


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Poll: Questions, Questions (102 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you think quali will happen?

  1. Yes (89 votes [87.25%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 87.25%

  2. No (13 votes [12.75%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 12.75%

Do you think the race will happen?

  1. Yes (69 votes [67.65%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 67.65%

  2. No (7 votes [6.86%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.86%

  3. I think we will get a shortened race (26 votes [25.49%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 25.49%

If you think we will get a race, who do you think will win it?

  1. I don’t think we will get a race (7 votes [6.86%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.86%

  2. Lando (54 votes [52.94%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 52.94%

  3. Oscar (7 votes [6.86%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.86%

  4. Carlos (1 votes [0.98%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 0.98%

  5. Charles (5 votes [4.90%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.90%

  6. Max (20 votes [19.61%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 19.61%

  7. Checo (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  8. George (1 votes [0.98%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 0.98%

  9. Lewis (1 votes [0.98%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 0.98%

  10. Someone else! (6 votes [5.88%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 5.88%

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#1 SophieB

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Posted 03 November 2024 - 08:15

Welcome to Race Day, race fans. And also to Quali which didn’t happen yesterday because of the torrential rain. There’s more rain forecast today, so in a highly unusual move, F1 have moved the start time of the GP forward so beware of your usual reminder widgets in case they haven’t updated. Again, unless rain moves things the new times are:
 

Quali 7.30am local, 10.30am GMT,

 

Race 12 30pm local, 3.30pm GMT

 

 

What happens if they can’t run Qualifying?
 

Hilariously, no-one quite knows! It’s worth reading Jon Noble’s whole piece for all the details but probably the key bit is that the existing regs are subject to interpretation:

 

 

There are two regulations here that potentially deal with the scenario of forming a grid when no qualifying times have been set – although neither are explicit in whether or not they deal with the circumstances of there being no qualifying session.

There is Article 39.4b that details a scenario of dealing with drivers who are “unclassified.” This is for any driver that “failed to set a time in Q1 or SQ1, or if all their laps were deleted.”

The rules then go on to explain that the classification of such a driver will be allocated “in accordance with the order they were classified in P3 (or, in the case a Sprint Session is scheduled, P1).”

This rule is intriguing though because it can be subject to a great deal of interpretation.

One viewpoint is that if qualifying is cancelled, because all drivers did not set a time in Q1, then everyone is ‘unclassified’ so on a sprint weekend that order would be decided by P1.

That would mean the fastest driver in opening practice, Lando Norris, taking pole position – with Max Verstappen being handed 15th on the grid before being moved back another five places because of his engine grid penalty.

 

However, such an interpretation of the rules is not shared by everyone because there is a viewpoint that if qualifying is cancelled, but SQ1 has taken place, then the wording of 39.4b) actually means that any driver who did a lap in sprint qualifying is ‘classified’.

In that case, article 42.3 is triggered which deals with how the grid order is handed out.

This states: “Classified drivers who have received 15 or less cumulative grid penalties will be allocated a temporary grid position equal to their qualifying session or sprint qualifying session classification plus the sum of their grid penalties."

In this case, it can be interpreted that the grid order for classified drivers is taken from their sprint qualifying classification.

That would mean Oscar Piastri takes pole position for the grand prix ahead of Norris, with Verstappen down in fourth place before his grid penalty.

All of this debate about the interpretation of the regulations is superseded, however, by the International Sporting Code.

 

He notes we have nearly been here before, ahead of the 2019 Japanese GP. In that instance…

 

Amid fears that qualifying may not even take place then, the stewards issued a note detailing what would happen if they had to form a grid without it.

They noted that “the FIA Formula 1 Sporting Regulations are silent on the subject.”

Instead, they exercised the authority that was handed down to them under Article 11.9.3b of the International Sporting Code to decide how the grid would be formed.

This ISC rule gives the stewards total authority to “amend the Supplementary Regulations” – which effectively means they can decide how a grid is formed.

 

 

https://www.autospor...appen/10669919/

 

 



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#2 PayasYouRace

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Posted 03 November 2024 - 08:19

As I said yesterday, it’s so F1 to not have this eventuality covered by the regulations. I’d have said use the last competitive session, which would actually be the Sprint race result.

#3 FirstnameLastname

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Posted 03 November 2024 - 08:20

As I said yesterday, it’s so F1 to not have this eventuality covered by the regulations. I’d have said use the last competitive session, which would actually be the Sprint race result.


Everyone hates the sprints thou, right? So can’t use them

#4 jonklug

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Posted 03 November 2024 - 08:23

I think we'll get quali and a shortened race. Let's see.

#5 TheFish

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Posted 03 November 2024 - 08:25

I predict a shortened race with Lando spinning off into the wall and Max coming through for a glorious victory in conditions that suit him.



#6 IrvTheSwerve

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Posted 03 November 2024 - 08:26

Looking at the weather forecast, it looks like 100% chance of rain for Q and 40% for the start of the race, which increases as time goes on. I reckon no qualifying and a shortened race, won by Norris.



#7 IrvTheSwerve

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Posted 03 November 2024 - 08:28

Using the Sprint result to set the grid would probably be the sensible option if Q doesn’t take place…



#8 This and that

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Posted 03 November 2024 - 08:29

Surely, race has to be the priority. Setup the grid on the back of the Sprint race results, and that's it.

#9 MJB5990

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Posted 03 November 2024 - 08:30

Just run Q1 and set the grid that way, moving quickly as possible into trying to start the race.

I'm pleasantly surprised to see the FIA being proactive and flexible but they can still do more.

#10 JimmyClark

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Posted 03 November 2024 - 08:30

Looking at the weather forecast, it looks like 100% chance of rain for Q and 40% for the start of the race, which increases as time goes on. I reckon no qualifying and a shortened race, won by Norris.

I kind of want there to be no qualifying just to watch the meltdown over how they set the grid. As there is no rule, and given the vastly different grids that could result (especially for the championship protagonists), it will be fun to watch the politcking.

But I also want to see the drivers at their best in the wet, so it's win win really.

Edited by JimmyClark, 03 November 2024 - 08:30.


#11 IrvTheSwerve

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Posted 03 November 2024 - 08:31

Imagine travelling to the circuit for 7am to not see anything for hours, if at all.

 

(Reminded me of my younger days getting to Silverstone around 5am for a good GA spot!)



#12 IrvTheSwerve

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Posted 03 November 2024 - 08:31

I kind of want there to be no qualifying just to watch the meltdown over how they set the grid. As there is no rule, and given the vastly different grids that could result (especially for the championship protagonists), it will be fun to watch the politcking.

But I also want to see the drivers at their best in the wet, so it's win win really.

I must admit I thought the same, I fancy a bit of drama.  :lol:



#13 This and that

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Posted 03 November 2024 - 08:34

Just run Q1 and set the grid that way, moving quickly as possible into trying to start the race.

I'm pleasantly surprised to see the FIA being proactive and flexible but they can still do more.


It would be to risky, with the weather and the amount of cars on track. Getting a fair position for everyone to do a lap would be next to impossible.

#14 Broekschaap

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Posted 03 November 2024 - 08:35

Like is said in the closed build up topic:

 

You can go:

P1 if you follow the lines of 39.4b and think that is also applicable if there was no qualy at all

SQ if you think that a driver also is classified for the race if he qualified in the sprint qualifying

Championship order if you go with last years Spa precedent and next years regulations

Sprint result (and any other option) if you think it is up to the discretion of  the stewards

 

I don't think the regulations are very clear about it. But if we go with stewards discretion to me it would be more logic to go with next years rule then the sprint result



#15 jacdaniel

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Posted 03 November 2024 - 08:37

I kind of want there to be no qualifying just to watch the meltdown over how they set the grid. As there is no rule, and given the vastly different grids that could result (especially for the championship protagonists), it will be fun to watch the politcking.

But I also want to see the drivers at their best in the wet, so it's win win really.


There’s nothing that wouldn’t suit Lando anyways. If they use the sprint or FP1 then he’s P1. If they use WDC order then he’s also P1 with Maxs pen. And if they use sprint quali he’s P2 and his team mate will just let him through anyways.

It’s Max that would be screwed if they used FP1. And it would definitely raise eyebrows that the show is been manipulated.

The 2025 regs state they’ll use the WDC order so if there is no precedent then surely you’d go with that?

Or at least use the result of a competitive session from this weekend

#16 JimmyClark

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Posted 03 November 2024 - 08:38

Actually looking at the latest forecasts, the rain looks less biblical than was shown yesterday. It seems to be a light rain all day, which will be perfect.

Edited by JimmyClark, 03 November 2024 - 08:38.


#17 This and that

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Posted 03 November 2024 - 08:39

Like is said in the closed build up topic:

You can go:
P1 if you follow the lines of 39.4b and think that is also applicable if there was no qualy at all
SQ if you think that a driver also is classified for the race if he qualified in the sprint qualifying
Championship order if you go with last years Spa precedent and next years regulations
Sprint result (and any other option) if you think it is up to the discretion of the stewards

I don't think the regulations are very clear about it. But if we go with stewards discretion to me it would be more logic to go with next years rule then the sprint result


Expand on your logic? I have a feeling, it's biased. Was the grid in the beginning of the sprint weekends not being set on the back of the Sprint race results? Why invent?

#18 Ellios

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Posted 03 November 2024 - 08:43

Somewhat limited, looking at webcams close to the area, weather/rain not looking not too bad right now, forecast does not look so bad. 

 

I'm thinking qualifying will be okay, race unknown but hopeful.


Edited by Ellios, 03 November 2024 - 08:44.


#19 TauriJ

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Posted 03 November 2024 - 08:44

Weather forecast looks really good compared to yesterday.

 

Full qualy and race. Hopefully papaya win :clap:



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#20 SophieB

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Posted 03 November 2024 - 08:45

@NobleF1

Here is how the Interlagos track looks this morning. Still wet but nowhere near as bad as yesterday. #F1. #BrazilHP.
 

IMG-1887.jpg



#21 Broekschaap

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Posted 03 November 2024 - 08:47

Expand on your logic? I have a feeling, it's biased. Was the grid in the beginning of the sprint weekends not being set on the back of the Sprint race results? Why invent?

Oh you can look up my favourite driver (Max). But i try to be not to biased on these posts. I am not inventing anything. The sprint result no longer sets the grid for the race. It did in the past. So for that line of reasoning you need stewards discretion. And then i find following next years rule more logic then something that was decided to do no longer. But if they decide sprint result i am fine with it.



#22 renzmann

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Posted 03 November 2024 - 08:50

Serving users who desperately want to know when quali starts with GMT is just classic British bias.



#23 FirstnameLastname

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Posted 03 November 2024 - 08:50

@NobleF1
Here is how the Interlagos track looks this morning. Still wet but nowhere near as bad as yesterday. #F1. #BrazilHP.

IMG-1887.jpg

Rain aside, I was struck this year by how different the track looks compared to my memory of it. Lots of development happening

And also, in a sign I’m getting old…. Was that big tree there at the end of the run to T4 when Jos smashed Montoya out of the lead? On the coverage yesterday I thought it looked more ‘tree-y’ than normal

Edited by FirstnameLastname, 03 November 2024 - 08:51.


#24 This and that

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Posted 03 November 2024 - 08:51

Oh you can look up my favourite driver (Max). But i try to be not to biased on these posts. I am not inventing anything. The sprint result no longer sets the grid for the race. It did in the past. So for that line of reasoning you need stewards discretion. And then i find following next years rule more logic then something that was decided to do no longer. But if they decide sprint result i am fine with it.


We'll just have to stick to whatever happens, but I do hope it's a proper Quali and the race. And, it's OK to have favourite drivers and opinions. If it was me, the grid would be formed on the back of the P1 results (McLaren fan talking), but I know it would not be fair. So, let there be Quali - hopefully.

#25 Flyingfinn

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Posted 03 November 2024 - 08:52

The track looks alright. Hope they get cracking on time.

#26 cheekybru

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Posted 03 November 2024 - 08:52

Thank you for the helpful title with times in it

I turned on my sky go with rubbish signal and completely woke myself up trying to work out what session was on (the stream would load)

On sky it's listed as "Sau Paulo F1 GP: Qualifying" at the moment, followed by "Sau Paulo Grand Prix: Qualifying" at 10am 😁

Completely awake now, so might aswell make a bacon sandwich

#27 This and that

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Posted 03 November 2024 - 08:53

Rain aside, I was struck this year by how different the track looks compared to my memory of it. Lots of development happening

And also, in a sign I’m getting old…. Was that big tree there at the end of the run to T4 when Jos smashed Montoya out of the lead? On the coverage yesterday I thought it looked more ‘tree-y’ than normal


I know, just seems, from different angles, like an "upgraded" track. It's like when you have a premium PC configuration so you can push the visuals to max 😎. Not that I ever had one 😁

#28 d246

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Posted 03 November 2024 - 08:54

Delayed and shortened race with a win or bin for Max. Carlos as the dark (prancing) horse.



#29 Clrnc

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Posted 03 November 2024 - 09:01

Red Bull has very good race pace as evident in the sprint yesterday with both their drivers, so I really hope for a full race because the battle with Mclaren will be intense. 



#30 SophieB

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Posted 03 November 2024 - 09:04

@NobleF1

Here is the official FIA weather forecast for today. #F1. #BrazilGP 

Qualifying looks okay but situation gets a bit more difficult after that.
 

IMG-1888.jpg



#31 TheFish

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Posted 03 November 2024 - 09:05

My favourite bit about that image is how clear everything is



#32 cjm321190

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Posted 03 November 2024 - 09:08

Rain aside, I was struck this year by how different the track looks compared to my memory of it. Lots of development happening

And also, in a sign I’m getting old…. Was that big tree there at the end of the run to T4 when Jos smashed Montoya out of the lead? On the coverage yesterday I thought it looked more ‘tree-y’ than normal



Probably not. We are just so old big trees grew.

I planted a tree when i was 5 years old. Now it looks like something out of a medieval forrest.

That is in UK climate not tropical Brazil.

#33 Flyingfinn

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Posted 03 November 2024 - 09:10

@NobleF1

Here is the official FIA weather forecast for today. #F1. #BrazilGP 

Qualifying looks okay but situation gets a bit more difficult after that.
 

IMG-1888.jpg

 


Which is why they should cancel qualm and just execute the race.

#34 SophieB

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Posted 03 November 2024 - 09:13

Lewis, yesterday:

 

“It's crazy because today we didn't get to qualify, so qualifying has been moved to 7.30 tomorrow, which is the earliest I think we've ever had. I don't even know if all the drivers are gonna make it because they don't like being up early, so it's gonna be interesting."

 

He’s laughing as he says this before anyone earnestly responds how they expect the drivers will in fact make it to the track! Also, I wonder if this really is the earliest quali ever.



#35 sgtkate

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Posted 03 November 2024 - 09:13

Serving users who desperately want to know when quali starts with GMT is just classic British bias.

The times are given in local Brazil time as well.

You are aware that for half the year Britain isn't in GMT aren't you? GMT is the same as UTC I.e. the base timezone for everywhere. The fact it originated in Greenwich doesn't make this British bias. I honestly hope I've fallen for a wind up otherwise you really have some issues.

EDIT: You are right. They aren't given in local Brazil time. I think that was another thread. The rest of my post stands.

Edited by sgtkate, 03 November 2024 - 09:17.


#36 Mc_Silver

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Posted 03 November 2024 - 09:14


Which is why they should cancel qualm and just execute the race.


%100 agree

#37 cjm321190

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Posted 03 November 2024 - 09:14

Thank you for the helpful title with times in it

I turned on my sky go with rubbish signal and completely woke myself up trying to work out what session was on (the stream would load)

On sky it's listed as "Sau Paulo F1 GP: Qualifying" at the moment, followed by "Sau Paulo Grand Prix: Qualifying" at 10am 😁

Completely awake now, so might aswell make a bacon sandwich


Ketchup or brown sauce? That is the first major decision of the day done.

#38 Dutchrudder

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Posted 03 November 2024 - 09:15

I do think they should race if there is chance in the morning. We’ll be robbed if we can’t get a GP run on this excellent circuit.

#39 Stephane

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Posted 03 November 2024 - 09:15

Forum is full of Brits, that's normal. On french forums they give it in CET.

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#40 Bendo

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Posted 03 November 2024 - 09:15

I suppose the change of time is helped by F1 being on pay tv in many territories with dedicated channels where amending the schedule isn't too difficult. On the olden days, it would have been a nightmare for the likes of the BBC etc.

#41 FirstnameLastname

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Posted 03 November 2024 - 09:16

The times are given in local Brazil time as well.

You are aware that for half the year Britain isn't in GMT aren't you? GMT is the same as UTC I.e. the base timezone for everywhere. The fact it originated in Greenwich doesn't make this British bias. I honestly hope I've fallen for a wind up otherwise you really have some issues.


I think he was joking

BUT

I’ll take the opportunity to throw in the link for the F1 calendar to add all the track sessions to your calendar so you never miss or have to wonder when a session starts ever again

It updated immediately with the new track times for today, it really is a bit of gold.

https://ics.ecal.com...c/Formula 1.ics

#42 Gareth

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Posted 03 November 2024 - 09:16

The times are given in local Brazil time as well.

You are aware that for half the year Britain isn't in GMT aren't you? GMT is the same as UTC I.e. the base timezone for everywhere. The fact it originated in Greenwich doesn't make this British bias. I honestly hope I've fallen for a wind up otherwise you really have some issues.

I am 99.786% sure renzmann was making a fun joke :)

#43 Grayson

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Posted 03 November 2024 - 09:17

This is enjoyably chaotic!

I woke to dozens of messages in the group chat eventually confirming that we’re meeting up at 3:00 rather than 5:00 this afternoon…

At least we’re watching it at someone’s house today so that I don’t have to tell a sports bar that we now want a table that clashes with the second half of Spurs vs Villa and the first half of Chelsea vs United. Oh, and please can they make sure there’s somewhere showing the race with sound two hours before they thought they’d need to?

Six hours from the start of the race and we don’t know whether qualy will happen and we sure as hell don’t know what the grid will look like if it doesn’t. This is a whole day’s entertainment!

#44 Ben1980

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Posted 03 November 2024 - 09:19

Ketchup or brown sauce? That is the first major decision of the day done.


Jumping in...but bacon is obviously ketchup. Sausage may be brown for some.

#45 SophieB

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Posted 03 November 2024 - 09:19

I think Renzmann was kidding but for real, I did consider putting local times in the thread title too but decided against it on the basis that I reckoned when I added it to the buildup thread yesterday, it looked a bit cluttered and confusing. The key bit I wanted to communicate very clearly is that the race time had been brought forward so I decided we would all just have to cope with any associated sickening bias implied if I went for the time zone of the majority of the users in the title and saved the local times for the opening text.



#46 TAFormula1

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Posted 03 November 2024 - 09:20

Considering the horrible weather forecast, the most logical and sensible thing to do:

 

1.Take results from sprint race, or sprint qualy or fp1 or whatever and use it as a starting grid.

2.Find the best and most optimal window to execute race, it will probably still be delayed a bit but with some luck possible can be executed or at least a part of it.

 

 

What FIA does, because they always screw up everything:

 

1.Force qualifying on race day with a horrible weather forecast

2.Will be delayed or hard to execute but somehow will go through

3.No more good windows for race, more and more rain as time passes

4.Race cancelled, gift the championship to Verstappen

 

 

What a bounch of incompetence, seriously.



#47 Gareth

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Posted 03 November 2024 - 09:20

Sausages in the oven for me. Because I am a man of sophisticated taste, it will be red sauce and white bread.

#48 FirstnameLastname

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Posted 03 November 2024 - 09:20

Jumping in...but bacon is obviously ketchup. Sausage may be brown for some.


HP sauce is always right for all occasions

Bacon ✅
Sausage ✅
Corned Beef ✅

#49 Ben1980

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Posted 03 November 2024 - 09:22

HP sauce is always right for all occasions

Bacon ✅
Sausage ✅
Corned Beef ✅


From north of Watford?

#50 SophieB

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Posted 03 November 2024 - 09:22

I think he was joking

BUT

I’ll take the opportunity to throw in the link for the F1 calendar to add all the track sessions to your calendar so you never miss or have to wonder when a session starts ever again

It updated immediately with the new track times for today, it really is a bit of gold.

https://ics.ecal.com...c/Formula 1.ics

That’s nice, but I listened to you and added it a couple of weeks ago and, just checking,  it didn’t update for me, though?