18 replies to this topic

[Allen Brown]

Here's one for the data experts. Since F1 started, which car has won the most pole positions? I don't remember anyone attempting this analysis before.

Also, could we attempt to work out which car held that record as it developed. I imagine the record was broken in 2011 and 2014 but I'd be curious which car held it in the 1970s and 1980s.

In the period I know best, I can see:

4: Lancia-Ferrari D50 [0010]: Fangio in 1956
4: Vanwall '57 [VW10]: Brooks and Moss in 1958
5: Ferrari Dino 156/61 [0003]: Hill in 1961
7: Lotus 25 [R4]: Clark in 1963
6: Tyrrell 003: Stewart from 1971 to 1972
6: Lotus 72E [R6]: Peterson in 1973
7: McLaren M23 [8-2]: Hunt from 1976 to 1977
8: Lotus 78 [3 JPS17]: Andretti from 1977 to 1978

It gets tricky in 1984, when Piquet had a special Brabham BT53 for qualifying, so typically raced a different car to the one that took pole.

I would have expected one of Senna's McLarens to break the record in 1988 and 1989, but he used several different cars. Before 1954 and after 1989, I just don't have the data.

[F127]

 

I would have expected one of Senna's McLarens to break the record in 1988 and 1989, but he used several different cars.  Before 1954 and after 1989, I just don't have the data.  

 

I haven't done the research into whether they used separate cars for qualifying at any of the following races.... but these could make your list?

 

 

Senna could come close in 1990, MP4/5B/6 he used as a race car from Canada onwards and had 7 pole positions.

 

Prost beats him in 1993, in FW15C-04, which I believe he used up until Germany (and minus France), in which he claimed 8 pole positions, it could be a 100% strike rate for that chassis?  

Edited by F127, 18 November 2024 - 14:34.

[Allen Brown]

I haven't done the research into whether they used separate cars for qualifying at any of the following races.... but these could make your list?

 
Yes, I'd like to give the qualifying specials the credit, not the car that started the race from pole.
 
So FW15C-04 could have set a new record in 1993? 
 
Any other offers?

[chr1s]

Lauda put Ferrari 312B3 (015) on pole six times in 1974. 

[Roger Clark]

Assuming (1) you're restricting this to world championship races; (2) you allow Formula 2 in 1952-53 and (3) there was no swapping of chassis numbers - Ferrari 500-0005 was on pole 11 times in 1952-53, driver Alberto Ascari.  He was second on the grid to Farina in the 1952 British Grand Prix but they were credited with the same time and they used with egg timers.

Edited by Roger Clark, 18 November 2024 - 18:54.

[Andretti Fan]

If we're including non Championship races, Lotus72D R3 competed in 45 South African championship races, winning 21. Does anyone have a source to find out how many poles it may have with drivers Dave Carlton and Eddie Keizan?

Edited by Andretti Fan, 19 November 2024 - 05:24.

[GazChed]

If we're including non Championship races, Lotus72D R3 competed in 45 South African championship races, winning 21. Does anyone have a source to find out how many poles it may have with drivers Dave Carlton and Eddie Keizan?

According to silhouet.com, Dave Charlton first raced a Lotus 72D in the eighth round (of twelve) of the 1971 South African Formula One championship gaining three pole positions in the last five rounds. In 1972 he took ten from twelve pole positions, repeating the feat in 1973 and with Eddie Keizan taking one pole position in 1974 that gave a total of twenty four pole positions.

[Allen Brown]

Lauda put Ferrari 312B3 (015) on pole six times in 1974. 

 

I'm only seeing Jarama, Zandvoort, Brands Hatch, Österreichring and Monza.  What am I missing?

[Allen Brown]

I was using "F1" in the modern sense, so starting with the World Championship in 1950 and winding through to the current circus.  1952 and 1953 do count (thanks Roger).  Non-championship events don't count as fields weren't representative.  Yes, swapping of chassis numbers may well be a problem.

 

Let's narrow it down to cars with seven or more pole positions.  So far, the contenders are:

 

11: Ferrari 500 [0005]: Alberto Ascari 
7: Lotus 25 [R4]: Clark in 1963

7: McLaren M23 [8-2]: Hunt from 1976 to 1977

8: Lotus 78 [3 JPS17]: Andretti from 1977 to 1978

TBC: a Brabham BT53: Nelson Piquet in 1984

7: McLaren MP4/5B [6]: Senna in 1990?

8: Williams FW15C [04]: Prost in 1993?

 

Anything else in the 1980s or 1990s?  

 

And who here is good on F1 after 2000?  Or is this the wrong forum for that question?

[BRG]

Hamilton racked up a lot of poles - usually 10 to 12 a season between 2016 and 2021.  But I am not sure how many were in the same car.

[Charlieman]

After 2009, Vettel's record should be interesting. He had favourite cars with names.

[Collombin]

TBC: a Brabham BT53: Nelson Piquet in 1984

According to Peter Windsor's Autocar reports, the pole laps for Piquet in 1984 were set in BT53/03 on 6 occasions, and one each in /02 (Montreal), /06 (Nürburgring) and /04 (Estoril).

Edited by Collombin, 19 November 2024 - 11:14.

[F127]

I was using "F1" in the modern sense, so starting with the World Championship in 1950 and winding through to the current circus.  1952 and 1953 do count (thanks Roger).  Non-championship events don't count as fields weren't representative.  Yes, swapping of chassis numbers may well be a problem.

 

Let's narrow it down to cars with seven or more pole positions.  So far, the contenders are:

 

11: Ferrari 500 [0005]: Alberto Ascari 
7: Lotus 25 [R4]: Clark in 1963

7: McLaren M23 [8-2]: Hunt from 1976 to 1977

8: Lotus 78 [3 JPS17]: Andretti from 1977 to 1978

TBC: a Brabham BT53: Nelson Piquet in 1984

7: McLaren MP4/5B [6]: Senna in 1990?

8: Williams FW15C [04]: Prost in 1993?

 

Anything else in the 1980s or 1990s?  

 

And who here is good on F1 after 2000?  Or is this the wrong forum for that question?

 

I'd also check out FW19-04 which I believe JV used for the whole of 1997 except for the first round, if so it is possible he took 9 pole positions in that car.

Edited by F127, 19 November 2024 - 11:54.

[Henk Vasmel]

If we're including non Championship races, Lotus72D R3 competed in 45 South African championship races, winning 21. Does anyone have a source to find out how many poles it may have with drivers Dave Carlton and Eddie Keizan?

I have 24 poles, allmost all for Charlton, plus 3 races where I don't have a grid position, but 2 of these 3 don't look like poles to me. A win in Pietermaritzburg, 7/8/71 could be. The other two are a retirement and a DNS in 1974

[chr1s]

I'm only seeing Jarama, Zandvoort, Brands Hatch, Österreichring and Monza.  What am I missing?

Monaco?

[Allen Brown]

Monaco?

 

According to Autocourse, that was chassis 010.  It says he damaged 015 in the first session and another car was trucked up from Modena.  

[Allen Brown]

I had a look at a database somebody kindly sent me some years ago that covers up to 2007 and got this list:

 

9: Williams FW14B [08]: Mansell in 1992

8: Lotus 78 [3 JPS17]: Andretti from 1977 to 1978

8: McLaren M23 [8-2]: (this adds Hunt's 7 in 8-2 from 1976 to 1977 to 1 for M23/8, which wasn't really the same car)

8: Williams FW19 [04]: Jacques Villeneuve in 1997

7: Lotus 25 [R4]: Clark in 1963

7: Williams FW11B [03]: Mansell in 1987

7: Williams FW15C [04]: Prost in 1993

7: Lotus 72E [R6] - I get one less than this

 

There are a lot on six, including Senna's McLaren MP4/5B [6], and he has Piquet's Brabham BT53 poles in 1984 allocated to the car he raced, not the car that won the pole.  He also has six Ferrari 500 poles allocated to an unknown car, so Ascari's 500 should really be topping this list.

 

So we all forgot about Mansell in 1992.  

Who has data after 2007?

[Claudio Navonne]

What a thread! After more than 20 years of frequenting TNF , it never ceases to amaze me. Thanks to all of you.

[chr1s]

According to Autocourse, that was chassis 010.  It says he damaged 015 in the first session and another car was trucked up from Modena.  

Sorry, you're quite right, my mistake.