57 replies to this topic

[readonly]

Below you will find a set of original ideas that I’ve carefully developed myself. While this post was prepared with the help of ChatGPT to polish the language and structure, I want to emphasize that these ideas are entirely my own. English is not my first language, so I used ChatGPT to ensure clarity and readability. I hope you enjoy reading and discussing them!

 

 

 

 

What if we could see F1 drivers battle it out on equal footing, relying purely on skill and ingenuity? I propose the F1 Karting Championship, a parallel series to the F1 calendar that brings the sport back to its roots—karting.

This idea combines high-stakes racing with cutting-edge engineering and fan engagement. Here’s the vision:

The Concept

The F1 Karting Championship would be a support series during F1 race weekends, held at professional karting tracks near the main venue. Every F1 driver competes in karts, showcasing their pure talent without the technological dominance of F1 cars.

Key Features:

1. Custom Karts:

   • Teams develop their own karts under a simplified but open technical ruleset.
   • Auction system after races allows for cost control and fair competition.

2. Simplified Technical Rules:

   • Mandatory roll cage for safety.
   • Maximum kart weight of 120–150 kg.
   • Standard driver weight with ballast to ensure parity.
   • No restrictions on engine displacement, revs, or electric power.
   • Fuel limited to regular street gasoline.

3. Equal and Accessible Machines:

   • Teams can buy or sell karts through a transparent auction system, ensuring no team has a monopoly on performance.

4. Safety and Innovation:

   • Roll cages with quick-release mechanisms ensure driver safety without compromising the speed and fun of karting.

5. Independent Championship:

   • Points and prizes are awarded separately from F1 standings, with a system emphasizing both performance and cost-effective engineering.

Benefits

1. Showcases Driver Talent: Karting emphasizes raw skill and wheel-to-wheel racing, putting the spotlight on driver ability.
2. Engages Fans: Fans get to see their favorite drivers up close in fast-paced, action-packed races.
3. Fosters Innovation: The open ruleset challenges teams to innovate in a cost-effective, grassroots-friendly environment.
4. Returns to the Roots of Racing: Many F1 drivers started their careers in karting, and this series would celebrate that heritage.

Possible Concerns

I’ve thought about potential criticisms and here’s how they can be addressed:

1. "Will this distract from the main F1 event?"

   • Not at all! The karting races could be held on Fridays or Saturdays, complementing the main F1 schedule and providing more entertainment for fans.

2. "Will teams with more resources dominate?"

   • The auction system ensures fairness by allowing teams to sell and purchase karts. Performance depends on both driver skill and engineering, not just budget.

3. "Is this safe for F1 drivers?"

   • Yes! Professional karting tracks and roll cage-equipped karts minimize risk. Safety measures would align with FIA standards.

4. "Why karts and not F2/F3 cars?"

   • Karts offer a pure and accessible racing format that levels the playing field. It’s a throwback to the roots of motorsport and an ideal showcase for driver skill.

What Do You Think?

Would you enjoy seeing F1 drivers compete in a karting championship as part of race weekends? Could this add a new layer of excitement and fan engagement to F1?

Let’s discuss! I’d love to hear your thoughts, feedback, and ideas to refine this proposal. Maybe, together, we can shape the future of motorsport entertainment!

[maximilian]

I'd like to see it, but teams developing their own karts is absurd.  Just put them all in identical karts, and throw in the test & reserve drivers so they finally have something to do, too.  Plus a couple of guest stars with local interest from other series.

Edited by maximilian, 18 November 2024 - 17:50.

[Stephane]

If they want, there's already a karting world championship

[Risil]

I'd really rather have read your own words than ChatGPT's!

[Risil]

Also go-karts in roll cages look like midget racers

[Beri]

Lets float the idea to go back to the Bercy Karting Masters and I'd be a happy camper.

[Analog]

The problem is that the top drivers and the top teams would not like to gamble with their market values like that. 

[Analog]

...one way of making it almost feasible would be if they always started in reverse championship order, that way the top drivers always have an excuse if they fail.

But it needs to be standard karts, factory setups and the karts are distributed by picks from a hat 10 minutes before start.

[Stephane]

Lets float the idea to go back to the Bercy Karting Masters and I'd be a happy camper.

They did something a few years ago with electric karts and no big star.

[maximilian]

Also instead of "Formula 1 Karting Championship" it should be abbreviated to F.arting Championship.

[readonly]

I'd like to see it, but teams developing their own karts is absurd.  Just put them all in identical karts, and throw in the test & reserve drivers so they finally have something to do, too.  Plus a couple of guest stars with local interest from other series.

I like the idea of identical karts, but that has been done before and I think there is no interest.
I also like the idea of seeing test and reserve drivers in action, but the would not be as attractive as the active drivers, I think. Also, guest stars might be fun but they lack the skills.
Custom karts would be an innovation. Normally in karting there is a tendency to equalize them pursuing fairness. In this proposal, teams have the incentive of showing technical superiority. Of course there is the problem of making it a wallets race, but the auction and money prize distribution scheme solves that elegantly. Let me explain further.
 

 

If they want, there's already a karting world championship

But they don't. They might like this.

 

I'd really rather have read your own words than ChatGPT's!

Here you have them. It was just for the OP.

 

Also go-karts in roll cages look like midget racers

Yes, but they are safer as F1 cars with halo.

 

Lets float the idea to go back to the Bercy Karting Masters and I'd be a happy camper.

That was epic. I would love it too. But I think that was too local and I m thinking to go global with this proposal.

 

The problem is that the top drivers and the top teams would not like to gamble with their market values like that. 

I wish I could explain it better in a few words. I need many. Let me explain better please.

 

...one way of making it almost feasible would be if they always started in reverse championship order, that way the top drivers always have an excuse if they fail.

But it needs to be standard karts, factory setups and the karts are distributed by picks from a hat 10 minutes before start.

Some know I am all for that idea, but it might not be necessary in the beginning.
I see why you propose standard karts, to see only driver skill. In this proposal, karts can be developed and be faster each day. This would require driver skill to the extreme. Imagine a super kart in a normal karting track racing a bunch of other super karts! I think drivers would have to be skillful.

 

They did something a few years ago with electric karts and no big star.

This is open to any power unit: ICE, Electric or hybrid. If an electric engine is the best for the task, it would be proven on track. It would be interesting for many, I think.

 

Also instead of "Formula 1 Karting Championship" it should be abbreviated to F.arting Championship.

Could be.

 

[PayasYouRace]

How it it equal footing if the teams are developing their own karts?

 

I don’t like this idea for anything other than the occasional one off. I want to see the F1 drivers driving F1 cars, not karts. Karts are for children.

[Stephane]

Karts are for children.

 

Yep, old children though

[Beri]

How it it equal footing if the teams are developing their own karts?

 

I don’t like this idea for anything other than the occasional one off. I want to see the F1 drivers driving F1 cars, not karts. Karts are for children.

 

Yet you are the first in line to jump into the kart if youre at a karting venue with friends and/or family? 

[PayasYouRace]

Yep, old children though

I don’t see any appeal of seeing F1 drivers doing a thing that anyone can do at the weekend for £30, other than as an occasional no-stakes novelty. The only people who should be taking karting that seriously are the children who are going to race cars in the future.

For me the appeal of watching the F1 drivers is that they’re doing their thing in F1 cars, which are mind blowing in their performance.

Anyway. It would be all fun and games until a top driver gets injured, missed a Grand Prix, and loses a championship. The stakes in F1 are too high to have this sort of activity regularly on the side.

[Stephane]

I agree that i don't care to watch them in karts.

 

Kart is not for children only, though.

[F1matt]

Do F1 drivers really want to compete in a level playing field? Haven't they worked hard enough over the years to get themselves to F1, accumulate wins and title to have the privilege to stay in the sport on their terms, lets be honest in a level playing field it is highly unlikely a 40 year old sportsmen could compete on a level playing field with teenagers or people in their early 20s., And then there is the pay drivers who bought their way to the top, why would they want their lack of skills highlighted. Motorsport has never been a level playing field, like sailing it has high barriers to entry. 

[Peat]

I don't think fans want it either because they wouldn't be able to handle the likes of Stroll, Sargeant etc being  at the sharp end.  

Edited by Peat, 19 November 2024 - 10:33.

[noikeee]

I've always wanted a yearly end of season karting event between the F1 drivers. Like the Paris-Bercy thing of the 90s but semi-official. Attach it to the FIA Gala event so that the drivers get a bit more motivated to attend. Maybe with invitations to other champions of other FIA championships, the F2 champion etc.

 

A whole karting championship for them is waaaaaaaay too much.

[PayasYouRace]

I don't think fans want it either because it would they wouldn't be able to handle the likes of Stroll, Sargeant etc being at the sharp end.

I’d like to think most fans would be a bit more welcoming of drivers like Stroll and Sargeant if they could show they had F1 levels of talent.

[PlatenGlass]

Do F1 drivers really want to compete in a level playing field? Haven't they worked hard enough over the years to get themselves to F1, accumulate wins and title to have the privilege to stay in the sport on their terms, lets be honest in a level playing field it is highly unlikely a 40 year old sportsmen could compete on a level playing field with teenagers or people in their early 20s., And then there is the pay drivers who bought their way to the top, why would they want their lack of skills highlighted. Motorsport has never been a level playing field, like sailing it has high barriers to entry. 

 

Maybe this would put F1 drivers off, but let's not present it like it's a good thing that drivers can hide behind their non-identical cars to avoid having their talents exposed.

[jonpollak]

I'd really rather have read your own words than ChatGPT's!

I think posters who use AI should have an Asterisk or some other mark on the RC front page.

So we don't have to bother.

 

Anyway, here's a great Kart race from just a few hrs ago

Jp

[Stephane]

I know two guys who were there in the non-shifters races. 

[readonly]

Negativity is OK and understandable. This is the internet and I wouldn't expect less of it. So I want to concentrate on some legitimate concerns and great ideas you have posted.

The idea of having a single event at the gala or just at the end of a season would be a great start.Standardized karts would be good for this initial event but spreading the idea that it might become an event where customized karts can be used. Thus, people would start thinking and discussing about it. I think there will emerge more concerns that should be addressed by the organizers. I can think of many, as you have posted, and more. But I have solutions too. Let me explain.

-There would be an amount of money for prizes provided by sponsors. It might be a very attractive one.
-Each participant contributes voluntarily to this amount.
-This money would be distributed by the following system:
-Each participant would get a best lap speed in a qualifying session.
-Each kart would be auctioned with a Vickrey type auction with secret bids. Anyone can bid for karts, even you. Kart owners, the teams, would also be allowed to bid for their own karts providing them with a practical reserve sale price because they can win their own kart.
-A plot of pairs (price, speed) is done and a logarithmic regresion is obtained to be able to predict speeds as a function of price.
-The difference of actual speed minus predicted is calculated
-Sort participants from highest to lowest difference and award points to participants using the Renard numbers series 100,63,40,25,16,10,6.3,4,2.5,1.6,1,0.63,0.4,0.25,0.16,0.1,0.063,0.04,0.025,0.016.
-Calculate the weight of each participant as the product of its contribution times their points
-Calculate the fraction of all weights that each participant has.
-Use this fraction as their fraction of the total money pool they get.

Uff.This should work.

[PayasYouRace]

Uff.This should work.

Well I suppose it does…

 

If they want, there's already a karting world championship

[F1matt]

Maybe this would put F1 drivers off, but let's not present it like it's a good thing that drivers can hide behind their non-identical cars to avoid having their talents exposed.

 

 

But why would any elite level sportsman (or woman) want to go back to the base level? It is like asking a Manchester City player to turn out for a Sunday league side to prove he can hack it, or asking an elite tennis player to play a game in a local park on a Monday night against a bloke who has just finished at the office, just so he can handle a game without a perfect surface or world class facilities,  there is nothing to prove. F1 fans are unique in wanting a "level playing field" there has never been one and there never will be simply because the driver is not the most important element in the equation, they are the poster child of the entire team behind them. 

[PayasYouRace]

Let’s take it a step further. Let’s have the America’s Cup sailors race in Laser Picos. Let’s have the Ryder Cup players do a tournament at the local minigolf course. How about having the Snooker World Championship at the local pub?

I maintain that go karts are for children, amateurs and failed racing drivers.

[BRG]

I maintain that go karts are for children, amateurs and failed racing drivers.

And you are completely wrong, and a snob into the bargain.

[PayasYouRace]

And you are completely wrong, and a snob into the bargain.

I’ll take being a snob about this, but I’m not wrong.

[PlatenGlass]

But why would any elite level sportsman (or woman) want to go back to the base level? It is like asking a Manchester City player to turn out for a Sunday league side to prove he can hack it, or asking an elite tennis player to play a game in a local park on a Monday night against a bloke who has just finished at the office, just so he can handle a game without a perfect surface or world class facilities, there is nothing to prove. F1 fans are unique in wanting a "level playing field" there has never been one and there never will be simply because the driver is not the most important element in the equation, they are the poster child of the entire team behind them.

It's not like those other examples. In (most) other sports you can't hide your skill behind a piece of technology. You are purely judged on your personal performance.

Sure, there are team sports like football (soccer - or any type of football really) but people can quite clearly see who's pulling their weight.

I'd say F1 fans are unique in wanting to keep drivers in unequal cars because it adds some "mystique" and doesn't give away the real pecking order. But guess what - it didn't break other sports.

[Risil]

I’ll take being a snob about this, but I’m not wrong.

 

Superkarts are fantastic though. Don't know if the F1 teams' insurers would sign off on top drivers having a go in them.

[PayasYouRace]

It's not like those other examples. In (most) other sports you can't hide your skill behind a piece of technology. You are purely judged on your personal performance.

Sure, there are team sports like football (soccer - or any type of football really) but people can quite clearly see who's pulling their weight.

I'd say F1 fans are unique in wanting to keep drivers in unequal cars because it adds some "mystique" and doesn't give away the real pecking order. But guess what - it didn't break other sports.

Even though designing and building the car is part of the sport too?

Irrelevant though. The OP isn’t proposing [edit] equal machinery either.

[PayasYouRace]

Superkarts are fantastic though

Many toys are. Not arguing that.

[PlatenGlass]

Even though designing and building the car is part of the sport too?

Irrelevant though. The OP isn’t proposing real machinery either.

 

It's stretching the definition of sport!* But you're right about the OP - though I was responding to a post that mentioned it.

 

*Not that the definition of some arbitrary word really matters - I just happen to think that the top drivers in equal cars would make a better "pinnacle of motor racing" than the current hybrid.

[F1matt]

A simpler way to find out how good the drivers are; reduce the calendar to 20 race weekends, have a sprint race on each race weekend, contract all 20 drivers to Liberty and keep the 10 teams as they are, each driver has to drive a different car at each race, given the reliability of the modern F1 car over a season the best driver should end up as world champion. Simples. Tomorrow I will focus on sorting world peace. 

[Stephane]

Bernie had sort of this idea of drivers changing teams. The sprint was not yet a thing yet.

[Peat]

I maintain that go karts are for children, amateurs and failed racing drivers.

 

By that standard, a lifelong professional karter like Davide Fore is a failed racing driver whilst Barry from essex who tootles around at the back of an MX5 race once or twice a year isn't. 

Edited by Peat, 21 November 2024 - 10:07.

[Stoffel]

I maintain that go karts are for children, amateurs and failed racing drivers.

 

Tell me you don't know anything about karting without telling me you don't know anything about karting.

[PayasYouRace]

By that standard, a lifelong professional karter like Davide Fore is a failed racing driver whilst Barry from essex who tootles around at the back of an MX5 race once or twice a year isn't.

Sounds like Barry is an amateur, going by your description.

And good for Davide Fore for building a career out of it.

[readonly]

Well I suppose it does…

If you want, I can go through the details of the dynamics of such a system. I think it would work.
 

But why would any elite level sportsman (or woman) want to go back to the base level? It is like asking a Manchester City player to turn out for a Sunday league side to prove he can hack it, or asking an elite tennis player to play a game in a local park on a Monday night against a bloke who has just finished at the office, just so he can handle a game without a perfect surface or world class facilities,  there is nothing to prove. F1 fans are unique in wanting a "level playing field" there has never been one and there never will be simply because the driver is not the most important element in the equation, they are the poster child of the entire team behind them.

You are right to ask that. This should make people want to participate. Let's find out some motivation:
For drivers:
1.- It is fun. They are away from the pressures of F1 in a festive environment where they are the main stars of the show near the people. They can improve their name brand and make contacts with sponsors.
2.- They could earn good money. Money is thought to go for the most cost efficient driver/kart.
3.- They could end buying a very nice superkart.
4.- The karts they would drive are superkarts with more power to weight ratio than the best shifter karts normally used in kart circuits. These karts would have been prepared by the F1 teams, which gives them an extra value.

For teams:
1.- doing well in this event would rise their brand and their sponsors.
2.- The kart they develop could be sold at an astronomic amount of money to collectionists or fans.
3.- The efficiency prize is attractive.

For the FIA
1.- This event would be very attractive for people and could generate a lot of revenue.
2.- The karts developed for this event can eventually be used to create a new racing series with global appeal. It could have events in many places.
 

Superkarts are fantastic though. Don't know if the F1 teams' insurers would sign off on top drivers having a go in them.

These would be safe superkarts with roll cages and seat belts. Speeds would be higher than current 125cc shifter karts but in karting circuits where speeds cant be as high as in circuits where superkarts race today.
 

Even though designing and building the car is part of the sport too?

Irrelevant though. The OP isn’t proposing real machinery either.

What do you mean "real machinery"? Did I propose imaginary machinery? Any kart could be used and be cost efficient to compete for the efficiency prize. Teams can develop them investing in some technology if they want. It would be very easy to get a competitive kart.
 

A simpler way to find out how good the drivers are; reduce the calendar to 20 race weekends, have a sprint race on each race weekend, contract all 20 drivers to Liberty and keep the 10 teams as they are, each driver has to drive a different car at each race, given the reliability of the modern F1 car over a season the best driver should end up as world champion. Simples. Tomorrow I will focus on sorting world peace.

It is not about finding out how good they are, but I like a lot your idea.
The purpose of this event is to mix driver skill and kart development from the best in a racing event that is much more close to the people and amateurs. Bring the elite to a karting venue is just very attractive. To make it more interesting, the karts can be developed. This adds another layer of interest that is just fantastic. It would generate so much interest in fans that the revenue of doing it can be huge. That revenue can be by itself sufficient motivation. We could think of many ways to use it for the benefit of everyone involved.
I have some ideas: Tickets could be auctioned in a Vickrey auction where winners pay only the bid of the first loser. This in every section of the grandstands and some VIP passes or others.
TV rights can be sold for a quite high amount. It is not only the racing event but also the auction of karts.

Perhaps you want to go through the system dynamics too. Just ask. It is a bit complex to figure out how this can work nicely. But you may find a flaw in it.

Edited by readonly, 21 November 2024 - 14:26.

[PayasYouRace]

“Equal machinery”, is what I meant to type. “Equal machinery”.

I’m tired.

[Peat]

 

These would be safe superkarts with roll cages and seat belts. 

 

So, cars then?

[NewMrMe]

This sort of concept tried with tin-tops instead of karts in the BMW Procar series.

 

This ran as a support race to European F1 races with everyone racing an identical BMW M1 car. Current F1 drivers took part. The series lasted for two years with Niki Lauda winning the 1979 title and Nelson Piquet in 1980. The joke idea that less successful drivers might to well did actually happen. Hans-Joachim Stuck, who's best F1 championship placing was 11th in 1977 was 2nd and 3rd respectively in the two Procar championships.

[William Hunt]

First time in I don't know how long that I lure on this forum again...and it's a weird experience..... (see below the thoughts that had entered my head):

 

This is very strange:

- Somebody who opens a post about karting

- Somebody who links F1 to karting

 

The most peculiar thing about this, at least to me, is.... the poster isn't me:

 

It wasn't me who posted it.

 

Still don't get it, about karting? Here? (Thanks a lot to the person who opened a post about karting here by the way, appreciate it).

 

Greetings,
William

Edited by William Hunt, 21 November 2024 - 15:32.

[noikeee]

Welcome back William, nice to see you here, hope you're alright.

[IrvTheSwerve]

First time in I don't know how long that I lure on this forum again...and it's a weird experience..... (see below the thoughts that had entered my head):

 

This is very strange:

- Somebody who opens a post about karting

- Somebody who links F1 to karting

 

The most peculiar thing about this, at least to me, is.... the poster isn't me:

 

It wasn't me who posted it.

 

Still don't get it, about karting? Here? (Thanks a lot to the person who opened a post about karting here by the way, appreciate it).

 

Greetings,
William

William!

 

Hope all is well. 

[Stephane]

Nice come back post William

Edited by Stephane, 21 November 2024 - 17:03.

[DW46]

William 🙌

[ensign14]

Tsunoda would win all the time, given his minuscule stature.

[ANF]

I'd really rather have read your own words than ChatGPT's!

I stopped reading at ChatG