57 replies to this topic

[SophieB]

Mercedes' George Russell says the Formula 1 drivers are "a bit fed up" with the leadership of the sport’s governing body, the FIA.[/size]
Russell, a director of the Grand Prix Drivers' Association (GPDA), said the drivers "weren’t aware" of the decision to remove the race director Niels Wittich three races before the end of the season.
The Briton said: "There are a number of drivers who feel a bit fed up with the whole situation and it only seems to be going to a degree in the wrong direction."

The drivers aren’t happy about how The departure of Wittich has been handled.

Russell admitted that the drivers were not fully content with some aspects of Wittich's work since he became race director at the start of the 2022 season. The German has been replaced by ex-Formula 2 and Formula 3 race director Rui Marques for the final three races of the season, starting in Las Vegas this weekend.
He said: "There is no secret that some were not happy with what was going on in terms of the decisions that were being made, but he worked together with us and we could have helped improve the matter.
"Sometimes just hiring and firing is not the solution. Let's see what this new era brings, but every time you make a change you have to make one step back before you take two steps forward."

https://www.bbc.co.u...es/cj6kp686g6do

[SophieB]

@jeff_gluck

A lot of the #F1 drivers have said they were caught off guard by the departure of race director Niels Wittich and had no advance notice. So I asked Charles Leclerc when *exactly* he found out about it. Any heads up?

 

“Nope. I found out on social media,” he said.

[RedRabbit]

Weird, because I have seen reports that it was Wittich as the driving force behind the jewelry and compliant underwear clamp down that the drivers hated so much.

Now they're upset he's gone?

Wittich really hasn't done a good job, and when you list the many questionable decisions the Race Direction has taken over the last couple of years, it's just not a surprise he has been fired.

Brazil was obviously the final straw, as that was blatantly interfering with the championship to keep it "interesting"

[Okyo]

Weird, because I have seen reports that it was Wittich as the driving force behind the jewelry and compliant underwear clamp down that the drivers hated so much.

Now they're upset he's gone?

Wittich really hasn't done a good job, and when you list the many questionable decisions the Race Direction has taken over the last couple of years, it's just not a surprise he has been fired.

Brazil was obviously the final straw, as that was blatantly interfering with the championship to keep it "interesting"

How i read it is that they aren't upset, but just questioning if it's right to sack and replace without trying an actual dialog with the drivers over some of the mentioned issues. That's the main issue in their eyes and it doesn't mean it gets solved with a new hire. 

Edited by Okyo, 21 November 2024 - 06:50.

[JRodrigues]

Why would they tell the drivers they were replacing him?? Com on man, grow up. Too much whining.

[Beri]

Why would they tell the drivers they were replacing him?? Com on man, grow up. Too much whining.

 

Well, depsite this may have substance that the drivers should not always be involved, the way it was handled is a bit strange. It is the one person they can find themselves talking about their own safety on track. Said person is a confidant to the drivers. Just see how drivers were emotional when Whiting died. Wittich was a person within the FIA that drivers had most contact with. And to remove him from his position, without notifying drivers, is strange. I agree that drivers shouldnt always be informed. But the removal of Wittich from his position is that one thing that I would grant the drivers information on before the media got a hold of it.

[Muppetmad]

It remains unclear to me why Wittich needed to be removed so abruptly. Masi's actions at the 2020 Tuscan Grand Prix were infinitely more egregious than anything Wittich did this year, and yet he was allowed to continue (to the detriment of the sport). At the very least, it would have made sense to allow Wittich to see out the year.

[Bendo]

Weird, because I have seen reports that it was Wittich as the driving force behind the jewelry and compliant underwear clamp down that the drivers hated so much.

Now they're upset he's gone?

Wittich really hasn't done a good job, and when you list the many questionable decisions the Race Direction has taken over the last couple of years, it's just not a surprise he has been fired.

Brazil was obviously the final straw, as that was blatantly interfering with the championship to keep it "interesting"

He was miles better than Massi. Don't think he did anything that was really bad, although the Brazil safety car before anyone went off was a bizarre decision as it was only ever going to serve to bunch the field up make the spray worse and cool the tyres.

[New Britain]

It's not clear what Russell and Leclerc think should have been done differently. If it is that the GPDA should have been consulted for their opinion of how Wittich was doing, or have been given more time to work with Wittich to help him to improve, fair enough.

If however they think they should have been told that Wittich was getting sacked before Wittich himself was told, that would have been a complete non-starter. If they think that they should have been told after Wittich had been told but before there was a press release, in theory that might have been feasible but in practice it would have been highly likely that one of the drivers would have made it public before the FIA could do so - another non-starter.

[PayasYouRace]

Why would they tell the drivers they were replacing him?? Com on man, grow up. Too much whining.

Maybe out of simple courtesy? Given that the race director is on of the primary contacts between the drivers and the officials, it seems like it’s important. They’re the one briefing the drivers and taking questions from them about how the event will be run.

[PayasYouRace]

It remains unclear to me why Wittich needed to be removed so abruptly. Masi's actions at the 2020 Tuscan Grand Prix were infinitely more egregious than anything Wittich did this year, and yet he was allowed to continue (to the detriment of the sport). At the very least, it would have made sense to allow Wittich to see out the year.

I don’t remember anything untoward from race direction at the Tuscan Grand Prix. What happened?

[Muppetmad]

I don’t remember anything untoward from race direction at the Tuscan Grand Prix. What happened?

Race control left the lights on on the safety car far too long, ensuring Bottas wasn't able to back up the pack, thus precipitating the major pileup we saw at the restart. Both Bottas and Hamilton blamed race control, and Masi's response was very, very unconvincing.

[southernstars]

Weird, because I have seen reports that it was Wittich as the driving force behind the jewelry and compliant underwear clamp down that the drivers hated so much.

Now they're upset he's gone?

 

I mean, I think it's fairly obvious that Wittich was the fall guy for Sulayem on the underwear and jewellery thing, and the drivers know it.

 

And of course they're upset - it's a major change with three races to go in the year, and two of the three tracks had major issues last year. They should have at least been warned, not the last people to know.

 

Why would they tell the drivers they were replacing him?? Com on man, grow up. Too much whining.

 

Because the race director's role has a significant impact on how the race weekend proceeds and that's kind of a big deal for the drivers? And also maybe it's common courtesy to tell them instead of letting them find out before social media does?

[PayasYouRace]

Race control left the lights on on the safety car far too long, ensuring Bottas wasn't able to back up the pack, thus precipitating the major pileup we saw at the restart. Both Bottas and Hamilton blamed race control, and Masi's response was very, very unconvincing.

Oh. I blame that 100% on the drivers, dicking about running slowly up to the start line and not paying attention.

[IrvTheSwerve]

I get that the drivers feel they should be notified, out of courtesy, but also it shouldn't really matter who the RD is and you get the feeling that the GPDA just want to have a bit of a moan and clearly have an axe to grind with MBS.

[midgrid]

This is an interesting subject.  On the one hand, I think it's desirable that the drivers (through the GDPA) are solicited for feedback on race direction, and it's apparent that the Ben Sulayem regime is rather high-handed in its approach.

 

On the other hand, if the drivers were given prior knowledge that Wittich was being fired, or that the FIA were considering doing so, there's every possibility that it could leak (whether maliciously or innocently), resulting in a situation where it's the FIA in general and Wittich in particular being blindsided.

 

Finally, I think the "social media" aspect is a red herring: when the FIA issues a press release, it will of course be reported on by the media, which includes social media.  It's not like the FIA are leaking inside information to random influencers (or perhaps that will be the next scandal?).

[IrvTheSwerve]

[Red5ive]

Why would they tell the drivers they were replacing him?? Com on man, grow up. Too much whining.

 

I suspect they are just using this as a way of communicating their general unhappiness with the FIA and the main man in particular.

[Ruusperi]

Who are the people who made the decision to remove Wittich? Who holds the power to fire and employ new people in F1? Domenicali? Or are there some behind-the-scenes figures staying away from the public eye which we fans are not aware of?

[Risil]

Would have to be someone in the FIA because that's who Wittich worked for. I would guess very senior because who would have the authority to dismiss a race director with immediate effect?

[Risil]

It's not clear what Russell and Leclerc think should have been done differently. If it is that the GPDA should have been consulted for their opinion of how Wittich was doing, or have been given more time to work with Wittich to help him to improve, fair enough.

If however they think they should have been told that Wittich was getting sacked before Wittich himself was told, that would have been a complete non-starter. If they think that they should have been told after Wittich had been told but before there was a press release, in theory that might have been feasible but in practice it would have been highly likely that one of the drivers would have made it public before the FIA could do so - another non-starter.

 

Looking at the GDPA letter, they're asking for an explanation for why Wittich was fired (they haven't had one), and questioning why if Wittich was fired over his job performance, there wasn't an attempt to work with the drivers to improve the things they were unhappy with rather than going straight for the eject button.

[New Britain]

Looking at the GDPA letter, they're asking for an explanation for why Wittich was fired (they haven't had one), and questioning why if Wittich was fired over his job performance, there wasn't an attempt to work with the drivers to improve the things they were unhappy with rather than going straight for the eject button.

Yes, but it went beyond that. Russell's comments in an interview indicate that the drivers thought that they should have been aware that Wittich was going to be sacked, or at least that the FIA were weighing whether to sack him: they wanted to be 'kept in the loop'.

One can understand why the drivers would want that, but given that there are twenty drivers, twenty driver's managers, ten team principals, et al, all with the potential, and sometimes the proclivity, to share things with journalists, there was no way that the FIA could have 'kept them in the loop' about Wittich's job status.

 

'"We definitely weren't aware," Russell told reporters in La Vegas. "It was a bit of a surprise, I think, for everybody.

'"It's a hell of a lot of pressure now onto the new race director," he added. "There's just three races left...

'"Often as drivers, we probably feel like we're the last to find out this sort of information," he continued. "And when it involves us kind of directly, it would be nice to be kept in the loop and just have an understanding of what decisions are being made."'

 

https://www.pitpass.com/79150/Drivers-are-fed-up-with-the-FIA-claims-Russell

[absinthedude]

Looking at the GDPA letter, they're asking for an explanation for why Wittich was fired (they haven't had one), and questioning why if Wittich was fired over his job performance, there wasn't an attempt to work with the drivers to improve the things they were unhappy with rather than going straight for the eject button.

 

It sounds like the drivers had a dialogue with Wittich and thought there was a good possibility of things getting better. I can see why they'd be disappointed if he was sacked when there was already some sort of process ongoing to at least try and solve things.

 

The FIA not even responding to the GPDA's repeated letters is definitely cause for concern.

[Autodromo]

Yes, but it went beyond that. Russell's comments in an interview indicate that the drivers thought that they should have been aware that Wittich was going to be sacked, or at least that the FIA were weighing whether to sack him: they wanted to be 'kept in the loop'.

One can understand why the drivers would want that, but given that there are twenty drivers, twenty driver's managers, ten team principals, et al, all with the potential, and sometimes the proclivity, to share things with journalists, there was no way that the FIA could have 'kept them in the loop' about Wittich's job status.

 

'"We definitely weren't aware," Russell told reporters in La Vegas. "It was a bit of a surprise, I think, for everybody.

'"It's a hell of a lot of pressure now onto the new race director," he added. "There's just three races left...

'"Often as drivers, we probably feel like we're the last to find out this sort of information," he continued. "And when it involves us kind of directly, it would be nice to be kept in the loop and just have an understanding of what decisions are being made."'

 

https://www.pitpass.com/79150/Drivers-are-fed-up-with-the-FIA-claims-Russell

I expect that anyone who is in danger of being sacked has had some heart-to-heart discussions with the boss already about their job performance.  And that is where the drivers could have been looped in.  I get the feeling the drivers did not even know this was a possibility.  

[7MGTEsup]

Brazil was obviously the final straw, as that was blatantly interfering with the championship to keep it "interesting"

 

How was giving Max a free pitstop "keeping it interesting"? It pretty much put Max out of reach. 

[New Britain]

I expect that anyone who is in danger of being sacked has had some heart-to-heart discussions with the boss already about their job performance.  And that is where the drivers could have been looped in.  I get the feeling the drivers did not even know this was a possibility.  

Maybe, but it does not appear that MBS works that way. He seems to make decisions on his own without a lot of consultation with others or even an interest in others' opinions. It appears that the decision to sack Wittich was made in reaction to what happened in Brazil, so hasty, not much opportunity for consultation.

Before making the sacking decision, MBS should have had a talk with Russell about Wittich, not to say, 'I'm thinking of sacking him', but rather to ask ,'How do you and the other drivers think he is doing? How could he improve?' Russell and the GPDA should NOT have been involved in any decision to sack him - this was not like it was with Masi 3 years ago.

[JRodrigues]

Is the president of a club listening to the players before firing the coach as well?

[PayasYouRace]

Is the president of a club listening to the players before firing the coach as well?

You’d hope so.

[JRodrigues]

Then he's useless.

[PayasYouRace]

Then he's useless.

A president of a club not listening to his players would be useless.

[JRodrigues]

Wrong words from me: It's not listening, it's telling them the coach is to be fired.

 

And also a bad comparison. I should be comparing to the refs association telling the players a ref is going to be sacked/suspended.

Edited by JRodrigues, 21 November 2024 - 15:44.

[New Britain]

Wrong words from me: It's not listening, it's telling them the coach is to be fired.

And also a bad comparison. I should be comparing to the refs association telling the players a ref is going to be sacked/suspended.

The F1 drivers have a far closer relationship with the Race Director than football players have with the refs, who change from match to match.

[Dalton007]

The guy at the top should be binned. He's causing all the major problems: no jewellery, standard underwear, no swearing. 

[pdac]

Let's get this into perspective ...

 

Drivers drive cars. They should rightly be concerned about all safety aspect that affect them. That means things like the state of the track, the rules that govern their conduct, the support features available when an incident occurs.

 

But it is not their concern about who does any of these things. If they form a working relationship with someone and then they are replaced, to bad - get on and form a working relationship with the next guy. 

[New Britain]

Let's get this into perspective ...

Drivers drive cars. They should rightly be concerned about all safety aspect that affect them. That means things like the state of the track, the rules that govern their conduct, the support features available when an incident occurs.

But it is not their concern about who does any of these things. If they form a working relationship with someone and then they are replaced, to bad - get on and form a working relationship with the next guy.

True but, unlike pretty much every other sport, it could be said that the drivers’ lives lie in the hands of the Race Director and his decisions, so it understandable that the relationship would be closer and more empathetic.

[PayasYouRace]

Wrong words from me: It's not listening, it's telling them the coach is to be fired.

And also a bad comparison. I should be comparing to the refs association telling the players a ref is going to be sacked/suspended.

That is different. Notice that someone is to be fired should only ever be between the employer and the employee.

However, it’s clear that Russell and the GPDA aren’t asking for that. They weren’t consulted prior to the decision being made in any way.

And I’m actually suspecting that it means Wittich was sacked for something other than his performance in his job.

Race director isn’t equivalent to a referee. That would be the stewards. I don’t know enough about football to know if there even is an equivalent role to the race director.

[PayasYouRace]

Let's get this into perspective ...

Drivers drive cars. They should rightly be concerned about all safety aspect that affect them. That means things like the state of the track, the rules that govern their conduct, the support features available when an incident occurs.

But it is not their concern about who does any of these things. If they form a working relationship with someone and then they are replaced, to bad - get on and form a working relationship with the next guy.

Given that those aspects of their job are their concern, then having a good working relationship with the person who officiates over those things is also their concern. It is absolutely their concern who is doing it, because they require someone they can trust, at the very least.

[jonpollak]

Looking at the GDPA letter, they're asking for an explanation for why Wittich was fired (they haven't had one), and questioning why if Wittich was fired over his job performance, there wasn't an attempt to work with the drivers to improve the things they were unhappy with rather than going straight for the eject button.

 Sounds to me like it has all the hallmarks of an MBS hatchet job.

Jp

[pdac]

Given that those aspects of their job are their concern, then having a good working relationship with the person who officiates over those things is also their concern. It is absolutely their concern who is doing it, because they require someone they can trust, at the very least.

 

When I board a plane, I place by life in the hands of the pilot. I don't ask the airline to let me know who that pilot is or if they have changed the pilot at the last minute. The drivers place their lives in the hands of the FIA and should expect the FIA to appoint someone competent to do the job. The particular person doing the job should only matter if there is concern that the person in question is not doing the job properly.

[Analog]

Why would they tell the drivers they were replacing him?? Com on man, grow up. Too much whining.

I am not sure that answering a direct question should be labelled as "whining". 

[PayasYouRace]

When I board a plane, I place by life in the hands of the pilot. I don't ask the airline to let me know who that pilot is or if they have changed the pilot at the last minute. The drivers place their lives in the hands of the FIA and should expect the FIA to appoint someone competent to do the job. The particular person doing the job should only matter if there is concern that the person in question is not doing the job properly.

Silly analogy. You’re not flying the plane.

 

Nothing bad can happen through better communication between all parties involved.

[New Britain]

When I board a plane, I place by life in the hands of the pilot. I don't ask the airline to let me know who that pilot is or if they have changed the pilot at the last minute. The drivers place their lives in the hands of the FIA and should expect the FIA to appoint someone competent to do the job. The particular person doing the job should only matter if there is concern that the person in question is not doing the job properly.

If you rode the same plane for 24 weekends a year, each weekend a round trip, for years you had the same pilot for every flight, there were only the same 19 other passengers on the plane for every trip, and before each flight all 20 of you sat down for a face-to-face chat with that pilot, you might feel differently.

[pdac]

Silly analogy. You’re not flying the plane.

 

Nothing bad can happen through better communication between all parties involved.

 

Indeed. But it's wrong to expect full communication on every matter.

[pdac]

If you rode the same plane for 24 weekends a year, each weekend a round trip, for years you had the same pilot for every flight, there were only the same 19 other passengers on the plane for every trip, and before each flight all 20 of you sat down for a face-to-face chat with that pilot, you might feel differently.

 

What if I simply used the same airline? What if it was a very small airline with just one plane? Should I then expect to be told in advance if the airline decided to change the pilot that they usually put on that flight?

 

To make it simple to understand this analogy:

- the passenger represents an F1 driver

- the airline represents the FIA

- the pilot represents the race director

Edited by pdac, 21 November 2024 - 21:49.

[New Britain]

What if I simply used the same airline? What if it was a very small airline with just one plane? Should I then expect to be told in advance if the airline decided to change the pilot that they usually put on that flight?

 

To make it simple to understand this analogy:

- the passenger represents an F1 driver

- the airline represents the FIA

- the pilot represents the race director

My analogy was more accurate than the above, but it's silly to try to tweak the details around for no obvious purpose. Historically the Race Director has had a closer relationship with the drivers than is common between officials and athletes in most other professional sports. I think that's fine. If you think their relationship should be more remote, that's up to you.

[pdac]

My analogy was more accurate than the above, but it's silly to try to tweak the details around for no obvious purpose. Historically the Race Director has had a closer relationship with the drivers than is common between officials and athletes in most other professional sports. I think that's fine. If you think their relationship should be more remote, that's up to you.

 

I don't deny any of that. I'm simply saying that having a good working relationship with a member of the FIA does not entitle drivers to be informed in advance when that person is being replaced.

[Autodromo]

I don't deny any of that. I'm simply saying that having a good working relationship with a member of the FIA does not entitle drivers to be informed in advance when that person is being replaced.

They weren't asking to be informed in advance, as I understand it, so much as being part of the conversation if there was an issue that management had with the RD.  Sit-downs with the leadership about the performance of the RD and get the drivers input.  It sounds like they wanted an opportunity to help him improve rather than get fired and now you are starting from square one with the new guy.

[New Britain]

I don't deny any of that. I'm simply saying that having a good working relationship with a member of the FIA does not entitle drivers to be informed in advance when that person is being replaced.

I completely agree - that was a point I made in the 9th post in this thread (before your first participation in it ).

[New Britain]

They weren't asking to be informed in advance, as I understand it, so much as being part of the conversation if there was an issue that management had with the RD.  Sit-downs with the leadership about the performance of the RD and get the drivers input.  It sounds like they wanted an opportunity to help him improve rather than get fired and now you are starting from square one with the new guy.

I'm not sure that they were not asking to be informed in advance. Russell's answer to journalists yesterday appeared to suggest that they did indeed expect to be informed in advance, if not of the decision to sack him then at least of the fact that his sacking was being considered:

 

'"We definitely weren't aware," Russell told reporters in La Vegas. "It was a bit of a surprise, I think, for everybody.

'"It's a hell of a lot of pressure now onto the new race director," he added. "There's just three races left...

'"Often as drivers, we probably feel like we're the last to find out this sort of information," he continued. "And when it involves us kind of directly, it would be nice to be kept in the loop and just have an understanding of what decisions are being made."'

[MikeTekRacing]

Not sure what the drivers want.
They found out. They are in the loop as much as they need to be. This is not something that should concern them