16 replies to this topic

[Mosf1history]

Hi there,

My name is Maurice, Mo in short. I’m new here and trying to read and learn as fast as I canth . What a great place to find!

Recently I got interested in the beginning of all motor sports, in particular the people involved and who they were/are. While researching the beginning of racing, I was going from 1950’s first official F1 Grand Prix to the Vanderbilt Cup to the Gordon Bennet Cup to the 1894 Paris-Rouen trial which already was a deep dive in history. Little did I know, there were still a few years to come until the 1867 Ashton-under-Lyme to Manchester “event”, 157 years ago!

In my research I found the book “Automobile Biographies” written by LH Weeks in 1905. There is little paragraph about Daniel Adamson on pages 158-159. Indeed the Adamson who made the one of the 2 road locomotives in the first race documented. According to this book, he made this locomotive in 1858 for a mr Schmidt. In the text it is written “Mr Schmidt gave this vehicle a thorough trying out and especially raced it with several competitors. One of these races, in 1867, with a Boulton steam carriage, …"

In addition I also found a mention of Mr Schmidt in the 1891 book “The History and Development of Steam Locomotion on common roads” by William Fletcher. On page 6 it is written “Messrs D. Adamson and Co. made a road locomotive for Mr. Schmidt, who patented the compensating gear as late as 1868, when the arrangement was introduced many years before by Mr. Roberts, used by Hill in 1834, and Carret in 1862."

 

I just kept on searching and found a little article in the "Autocar" a weekly journal, from March 14th, 1896. In that issue is written, Mr Schmidt send this "engine" to the Maritime Exhibition in 1868. A trial run was done with mr Nicole, director of the exhibition. There seems to be a report, written by Mr Ed Croppi, who was a member of the Jury, that has been send to several journals, but I haven't found it yet. In the "Exposition maritime internationale du Havre, 1868 : rapports du jury international et catalogue officiel des exposants" it is written, Mr Schmid (without "t") from Liverpool won the "Medaille d'Or" in the category "Locomotive for roads". A very good result I believe. What a journey with taht little steamer across the canal  by boat.

 

Unfortunately, this is where my search ends. I would really love to find more about this Mr Schmid(t) from Liverpool, but there is very little known of this man. I’m hoping somebody here has more info about this mr Schmidt or the first race documented. Other relevant information about the early days of racing in the late 19th century is more than welcome.

 

Thank you for reading and hoping on positive replies, warm regards,

 

Maurice "Mo" L'espoir

[Vitesse2]

We have a previous thread, which discusses, from post 4 onwards, Messrs Adamson's and Boulton's early road locomotives - and a contest between them. No mention of a Mr Schmid(t), but Robert Dick did post a report and picture of an anonymous 'early motor car', apparently dating to 1868-70 and owned by the writer of the article.

 

https://forums.autos...t/#entry8913325

[Mosf1history]

Dear Vitesse2,

 

Thank you for this reply. I will check it out.

[Vitesse2]

Dear Vitesse2,

 

Thank you for this reply. I will check it out.

Looking again at that thread, Mr Schmid is mentioned in this cutting from The Manchester Guardian of September 19th 1867. So it looks like he was involved with D Adamson & Co.

 

[Vitesse2]

Liverpool Mercury, June 30th 1868, apparently copied from The Engineer:

 

[Vitesse2]

Liverpool Daily Post, October 27th 1868:

 

[Vitesse2]

I can't find any records of a Mr A Schmid in Liverpool in that period. There are some Schmid families in Liverpool and across the Mersey in Birkenhead but no obvious 'A Schmid'. There are however records of the 1855 birth and 1857 death of an infant in Liverpool - recorded variously as Edouard Auguste Schmid and Edward August Schmid. So perhaps his father could have been named Auguste Schmid? And so maybe of French ancestry?

[ensign14]

Links with Le Havre?

 

 

Liverpool Mercury, 30 June 1868

[Bloggsworth]

The paragraph at the bottom may be of interest, though it tells us nothing about the gentlrman's origins, but connects him more or less directly to Adamson.

 

https://www.gracesgu..._Adamson_and_Co

[Geoff E]

I can't find any records of a Mr A Schmid in Liverpool in that period. There are some Schmid families in Liverpool and across the Mersey in Birkenhead but no obvious 'A Schmid'. There are however records of the 1855 birth and 1857 death of an infant in Liverpool - recorded variously as Edouard Auguste Schmid and Edward August Schmid. So perhaps his father could have been named Auguste Schmid? And so maybe of French ancestry?

 

The mother of this boy was nee AVOINE, as it was for a daughter registered at the same time (Henritte Elizabeth)

 

Additional SCHMID burials in Liverpool-

Harriet (2) in 1857 of 24 College Lane, same address as young Edouard (above), presumably Henritte (above).

Julia Harriet (29) in 1858, same address

 

The 1861 census shows No.24 College Lane to be a house of multiple occupancy, 6 households, no SCHMIDs.

 

I've now found a possible marriage but the Mr SCHMID has the wrong initial-

Name Charles Bonomée Schmid Sex Male Birth Date 13 Oct 1813

Father's Name François Schmid Father's Sex Male

Mother's Name Marie Anne Herdin Mother's Sex Female

Spouse's Name Julie Henriette Françoise Avoine Spouse's Sex Female

Spouse's Birth Date 1 Jun 1828

Spouse's Father's Name François Pierre Avoine Spouse's Father's Sex Male

Spouse's Mother's Name Marie Henriette Baudry Event Type

Marriage Event Date 14 Sep 1852

Event Place Angerville-l'Orcher, Seine-Maritime, Normandie, France Event 

Edited by Geoff E, 26 November 2024 - 16:15.

[robert dick]

In general - The Engineer/London

https://catalog.hath...eer" london&ft=

 

Schmid is mentioned for example in the issue of 27 September 1867, page 292,

and 26 June 1868, page 466.

 

[Mosf1history]

Looking again at that thread, Mr Schmid is mentioned in this cutting from The Manchester Guardian of September 19th 1867. So it looks like he was involved with D Adamson & Co.

 

 

 

Thank you for posting this!.Adamson & Co built this steam engine in early 1858 for mr Schmid(t). He used to run this engine in trials throughout the country, such as the event in Old Trafford. Maybe the event Old trafford was not the only one he raced to? Is there anybody who has info on other steam-engine events between 1858 and 1867 with a mention of the Adamson & Co machine.

[Mosf1history]

Liverpool Mercury, June 30th 1868, apparently copied from The Engineer:

 

 

Fantastic article, thank you 

[Mosf1history]

The mother of this boy was nee AVOINE, as it was for a daughter registered at the same time (Henritte Elizabeth)

 

Additional SCHMID burials in Liverpool-

Harriet (2) in 1857 of 24 College Lane, same address as young Edouard (above), presumably Henritte (above).

Julia Harriet (29) in 1858, same address

 

The 1861 census shows No.24 College Lane to be a house of multiple occupancy, 6 households, no SCHMIDs.

 

I've now found a possible marriage but the Mr SCHMID has the wrong initial-

Name Charles Bonomée Schmid Sex Male Birth Date 13 Oct 1813

Father's Name François Schmid Father's Sex Male

Mother's Name Marie Anne Herdin Mother's Sex Female

Spouse's Name Julie Henriette Françoise Avoine Spouse's Sex Female

Spouse's Birth Date 1 Jun 1828

Spouse's Father's Name François Pierre Avoine Spouse's Father's Sex Male

Spouse's Mother's Name Marie Henriette Baudry Event Type

Marriage Event Date 14 Sep 1852

Event Place Angerville-l'Orcher, Seine-Maritime, Normandie, France Event 

 

This is great info. I tried to research it, but I only find links to German immigrants. No Schmid family from France, which makes so much more sence going the Le Havre Maritime Exhibition. Thank you!

[Mosf1history]

 

In general - The Engineer/London

https://catalog.hath...eer" london&ft=

 

Schmid is mentioned for example in the issue of 27 September 1867, page 292,

and 26 June 1868, page 466.

 

 

Dear Robert, oh my, this book has so much more info about the early days. Thank you for showing this!

[BRG]

In the article about the trip to Le Havre, it mentions travelling from Etretat to Le Tilleul in 10 minutes.  This is a distance of about 3 kms (albeit with two climbs en route)  giving an average speed of 18 kph.  Hardly racing speeds, but then these are described as traction engines, which are not noted for speed!

[robert dick]

From The Autocar/London, 2 January 1897:
"An old Danish autocar", built in the early 1860s. It never got on to the road.