29 replies to this topic

[Macca]

Is to be auctioned off on his behalf by Tom Hartley Jnr.

https://www.motorspo...ium=Zoho Social

Paul M

Edited by Macca, 01 December 2024 - 18:18.

[Vitesse2]

Amazing what can happen when you get hit with a £652 million tax bill from HMRC and a £330 million fine.

[Tom Glowacki]

I can't afford this and the Indianapolis Museum auction so close together.

[mfd]

Why do you think they're going to be auctioned 'Macca'? 

 

[arttidesco]

I wonder how much Count Rossi will be prepared to bid for a BT44B or BT45 that he sponsored many moons ago 

 

Also of interest will be how much the Crosthwaite and Gardner car will go for 

[mfd]

Hello Arti   what do you mean 'bid'? They are not being auctioned

[arttidesco]

Hello Arti   what do you mean 'bid'? They are not being auctioned

 

Howdy mfd, maybe re read post #1

 

 

Is to be auctioned off on his behalf by Tom Hartley Jnr.

https://www.motorspo...ium=Zoho Social

Paul M

 

 

[Charlieman]

Presumably other owners of museum quality GP cars have been warned that 2025 will not be a good year for selling...

[B Squared]

Howdy mfd, maybe re read post #1

The article states that the cars will be individually sold. Bernie wants to know the cars' destination.

[mfd]

As B Squared points out in the article, "They are to be sold individually by Ecclestone’s close business associate..." 

[BRG]

So which are the most prized assets here?  The Thin Wall Special, and the Moss Vanwall, and the fan-car strike me as the most significant.

[GregThomas]

The two Ferraris at the front of the pic IMO.

 

The 375 is one of I think two survivors and the early ex Hawthorne Dino is probably unique.

 

The only other Dino I know of is the later version and has gone from V6 to V12 to V6 again

Maybe the Lancia D50.depending how original it is.

[B Squared]

Anyone know the history of his 'Silver Arrows' Mercedes-Benz and Auto Union?

Edit: I now notice arti already mentioned the Auto Union.

Edited by B Squared, 02 December 2024 - 12:03.

[Macca]

I wish I had worded it more precisely, as I have caused the usual pedants’ revolt…

Sold, not auctioned - ok?

Getting back to the subject, rather than shooting the messenger; it is nice to see them called “F1 and GP” cars, as some of them pre-date the WC and others are from the years when it was for F2 cars.

We know the Lancia-Ferraris are recreations by Jim Stokes Workshops, but I am doubtful about some of the other red ones despite their Classiche approval. What say the experts?

Paul M

[Steve L]

A nice collection...

 

I find some of the choices strange for Bernie though.  I would have thought there are a number of Bugatti types other than the Type 54 which would make a lot more sense in a collection of GP cars? Type 35, 51, even 59?

 

And the early Maserati are not strictly (and were not originally) Grand Prix cars?

 

Or maybe he had enough money, and just liked 'em 

[Dutchy]

The two Ferraris at the front of the pic IMO.

 

The 375 is one of I think two survivors and the early ex Hawthorne Dino is probably unique.

 

The only other Dino I know of is the later version and has gone from V6 to V12 to V6 again

Maybe the Lancia D50.depending how original it is.

 

 

 

There are no surviving Hawthorn era Dinos. I presume the car in the collection is the ex Henry Ford Museum car later acquired by Anthony Bamford and afterwards Robin Lodge.

There are two other surviving Dinos - the ex Pat Hoare V12 powered car (now sadly an FIA compliant V6) and the car in the Biscaretti Museum which was bodied for the first time only recently.

 

The D50s will be replicas as the two originals are in the Biscaretti Museum and Fiats's own collection.

Edited by Dutchy, 02 December 2024 - 14:12.

[BRG]

I find some of the choices strange for Bernie though.  I would have thought there are a number of Bugatti types other than the Type 54 which would make a lot more sense in a collection of GP cars? Type 35, 51, even 59?

Bernie didn't get filthy rich by paying over the odds and Bugattis cost a LOT.

[FastReader]

I wish I had worded it more precisely, as I have caused the usual pedants’ revolt…

Sold, not auctioned - ok?

[68targa]

It's an impressive collection and I do hope that when sold the new owners will show them off at selected events for all to see.  Maybe Mr Hartley will hurry up and finish his new showroom and have some of these on display. I hope so, it;s just round the corner from me !

[f1steveuk]

The vast majority of these were outside my office at Biggin Hill. I'm not surprised that some are being sold off, though the Vanwall is a bit of a surprise. I think the maths have been done to raise enough, without selling too much, as things like the McLaren M23 8/2 aren't on the list of 69 cars that are going. 

 

To be honest, these cars won't make a big dent in the collection once gone.

[MCS]

So 69 cars in total - are they all Formula One cars?  More interestingly perhaps, how many are left once the 69 have gone?

[FastReader]

So 69 cars in total - are they all Formula One cars? More interestingly perhaps, how many are left once the 69 have gone?

My reading of that article is that this represents his entire collection of Grand Prix cars and he's selling the lot.

[Nathan]

I find some of the choices strange for Bernie though.  I would have thought there are a number of Bugatti types other than the Type 54 which would make a lot more sense in a collection of GP cars? Type 35, 51, even 59?

 

The collection has been slowly sold for some time now. He sold 50 in one go back in 2007.  There were a few other auctions around this time he would sell batches through.  Had one heck of a Mercedes collection.

RM Auction Automobiles of London - Gallery 01

 

 

Why do you think they're going to be auctioned 'Macca'? 

 

He is 95 and has no kids interested in cars, and there is zero chance he can pass without knowing how much he made on them. It would eat him until his last breath.

 

So which are the most prized assets here?  The Thin Wall Special, and the Moss Vanwall, and the fan-car strike me as the most significant.

 

Fan car, or the pre war Merc GP.

Edited by Nathan, 02 December 2024 - 17:10.

[doc knutsen]

The two Ferraris at the front of the pic IMO.

 

The 375 is one of I think two survivors and the early ex Hawthorne Dino is probably unique.

 

The only other Dino I know of is the later version and has gone from V6 to V12 to V6 again

Maybe the Lancia D50.depending how original it is.

If the 1958 Dino 246, allegedly ex- Hawthorn, is the car in the picture, surely that is a 1959 Dino 246 rather than a 1958 one? Mike is said to have asked Sig. Ferrari to let him buy his Championship winner when he retired, but was turned down. And all I have ever read, after crying my 9-year old eyes out in January 1959 over what happened to my hero on the Guildford by-pass, is that all the 1958 team cars were broken up, in time-honoured Ferrari style. Does anubody know the story here?

Edited by doc knutsen, 05 December 2024 - 19:48.

[Doug Nye]

Not one true 1958 Dino 246/F1 survived in that year's form.

 

DCN

[Thundersports]

I wonder how much Count Rossi will be prepared to bid for a BT44B or BT45 that he sponsored many moons ago 

 

Also of interest will be how much the Crosthwaite and Gardner car will go for 

Count Rossi already owns one.

[Pullman99]

For me, the most interesting car is the Ferrari 312/010 from 1966 that is shown alongside other Ferrari F1 cars in several of the press pics.   The "return to power" 3 litre Formula One in 1966 really began my interest in all aspects of motorsport but especially circuit racing although I had followed the sport before then.    The excellent Old Racing Cars website records 312/010 as being the John Surtees Belgian Grand Prix winner.   I am sure it will find a good home and it would be great to see this car in public.

[doc knutsen]

Not one true 1958 Dino 246/F1 survived in that year's form.

 

DCN

Thank you. Much appreciated.

[irvine99]

[a_tifoosi]