117 replies to this topic

[jonklug]

No idea why they did this. Officially confirmed by Alpine

https://x.com/SkySpo...293276524015910

Edited by jonklug, 01 December 2024 - 18:47.

[FLB]

No idea why they did this. Officially confirmed by Alpine

Ted Kravitz said that Ocon agreed. He's free to test with Haas at Abu Dhabi.

[RoryFormula1]

I guess that makes sense if Ocon agreed.

[jonklug]

Ted Kravitz said that Ocon agreed. He's free to test with Haas at Abu Dhabi.

Ok then, makes SOME sense but a bit weird to take that last race away from him no?

[OvDrone]

Lol literally.

[Jellyfishcake]

Basically a if you don't step down we'll block you from testing.

[RoryFormula1]

Basically a if you don't step down we'll block you from testing.

Maybe you’re right. Alpine does seem like a mean spirited team. Tough to root for them.

[Joseki]

Alonso: left Alpine on bad terms

Piastri: left Alpine on bad terms

Ocon: left Alpine on bad terms

 

I think I see a common pattern here.

[DJH63]

As said in the Alpine thread, it makes sense. Briatore doesn’t even want Doohan and he’s his manager….helps to get a weekend of real life data to help them decide whether to replace him during the winter with Colapinto/Aron/AN Other.

[Francesc]

This has echoes to Trulli 20 years ago...

[Clrnc]

Make sense, win win for everyone.

 

It's clear he lost motivation to drive for Alpine anyway.

[Muppetmad]

Based on the current information at our disposal, this doesn't feel to me like it's good news for Doohan – will the team try to use his performance next weekend as evidence to justify not running him next year?

[FLB]

Based on the current information at our disposal, this doesn't feel to me like it's good news for Doohan – will the team try to use his performance next weekend as evidence to justify not running him next year?

Something like this, yes. And it seems that Oliver Oakes knew nothing about it. 

 

 

This is vintage Flavio.

[Anja]

Based on the current information at our disposal, this doesn't feel to me like it's good news for Doohan – will the team try to use his performance next weekend as evidence to justify not running him next year?

 

I thought the same thing, can't help but feel like Doohan is being set up to fail in this scenario. Debuting in the last race of the season, in a (supposedly) inferior car compared to his teammate... It's a very tough challenge. Colapinto has shown that you can still impress in that situation but Doohan will have much more pressure since this could be his one and only chance to impress. 

[DJH63]

Based on the current information at our disposal, this doesn't feel to me like it's good news for Doohan – will the team try to use his performance next weekend as evidence to justify not running him next year?

Well yeah we know Briatore didn’t want to run him next year, he was a last resort stopgap as one of his stable of drivers, and only on a very short term contract. Now there appear to be other options on the market they’ll take the opportunity to properly evaluate him.

 

Lets be honest, Briatore doesn’t need any excuse to bin him off, he’s never made any apology for the way he does business.

[Anderis]

Ok then, makes SOME sense but a bit weird to take that last race away from him no?

I wouldn't say weird but definetely practical.

 

He was not delivering in recent races (except for Brazil, but that was the odd one out), either he wasn't 100% motivated to deliver for the team he's leaving or the team was not 100% motivated to deliver him with equal opportunities to Gasly (or both), so why drag it out when it's clearly not working. Alpine gets to run Doohan over a driver who'll be leaving which I think only benefits them in the long run.
 

Happened before i.e. Nakajima replacing Wurz for the last race in 2007.

Edited by Anderis, 01 December 2024 - 19:06.

[FLB]

For those who think this may not be Ocon's choice, watch this. It's in French, but his demeanor is clear. Ocon thanks his engineers. The journalist asks him about ending with the team next week and his answer is On verra! On verra! ('We'll see! We'll see!). The smile at the end it quite telling.

 

Gazou sur X : "Ça semble assez clair, Ocon qui remercie ses ingénieurs, il n’aura sans doute aucune célébration de son écurie à Abu Dhabi… si c’est ça, on va ranger Alpine à égalité de RB sur le plan humain (pour Ricciardo). #F1 https://t.co/AtdsxgONPI" / X

[Disgrace]

Where did the speculation about Doohan's future originate from? Colapinto, maybe, but I don't see anything in Aron of all drivers to think he's a better option than Doohan.

[FirstnameLastname]

Dunno but it’s amazing how these F2 drivers are so lauded after 1 appearance… I’ve got a feeling there’s a few Jan Magnussens about to join the grid

[DJH63]

Where did the speculation about Doohan's future originate from? Colapinto, maybe, but I don't see anything in Aron of all drivers to think he's a better option than Doohan.

From Doohan only having a 5 race contract and them trying to sign Colapinto to replace him….

[Bleu]

Ok then, makes SOME sense but a bit weird to take that last race away from him no?

 

If he was given an option of either not doing last race and free to test for Haas or race in Abu Dhabi and not test for Haas?

[Risil]

Wonder how watertight Kevin and Hulk's contracts are

[Risil]

I like it when this happens, it's like losing your nerve and opening your presents on Christmas Eve

[Anja]

Something like this, yes. And it seems that Oliver Oakes knew nothing about it. 

 

 

This is vintage Flavio.

 

A confirmation of who's really running the team...

[Disgrace]

I hope Jack has a backup plan if Briatore's manoeuvring has been quite so transparent.

[DutchQuicksilver]

I’m getting a lot of Jolyon Palmer vibes with Doohan in that car next year. A potentially good seat wasted by an average not very spectacular driver.

[Silberpfeil]

I‘m so glad I don‘t have to care about this team anymore. Alpine going back on a seemingly agreed deal to let Ocon run with Haas in the post-season test to force him out of the car is already sketchy. If the whole thing is just a ploy to obtain a flimsy excuse to get rid of Doohan – orchestrated by Jack’s manager, no less! – that‘s several orders of magnitude worse. And makes me think that the 300 people Briatore supposedly got rid off included the entire PR and legal departments.

[Beri]

Alonso: left Alpine on bad terms
Piastri: left Alpine on bad terms
Ocon: left Alpine on bad terms
 
I think I see a common pattern here.

Doohan: will leave Alpine on bad terms (allegedly after 5 races)

[Anja]

I’m getting a lot of Jolyon Palmer vibes with Doohan in that car next year. A potentially good seat wasted by an average not very spectacular driver.

 

I really don't get the comparison, Doohan has shown more in F2 and F3 than the likes of Colapinto or Lawson, arguably also Bearman. He could've been an F2 champion in his 2nd year if not for car troubles (confirmed and serious, not just excuses) early in the season. Comparing him to Jolyon "4 seasons in F2" Palmer is just laughable. 

Edited by Anja, 01 December 2024 - 20:00.

[DJH63]

A confirmation of who's really running the team...

Was anyone ever doubting Briatore ran the team?

[JHSingo]

The way Alpine has treated Ocon this year has been pretty ridiculous, but what can you expect from one of the most shambolic teams on the grid. 

 

I like Esteban, and hope that Haas is a bit of a kinder environment to him next year. 

[FLB]

More details. Oliver Oakes sounds like he was caught by surprise... that it came out: Ocon set to depart Alpine early, Doohan to race in Abu Dhabi | RACER

 

 

“I think there’s been a discussion, yeah,” Oakes said. “I don’t think there’s been a definitive answer yet, but it has been talked about. It’s obviously slightly complex, because as much as he is ours, he is contractually a Mercedes junior as well, or driver. And obviously he’d like to be released early as well.

“I think it comes from all sides, really. I guess you could say it’s good to get Jack in early. I think you could say from Esteban’s side it’s good to move on early. I think it suits everybody. The discussion was quite natural, really. Honestly, Esteban has been a big part of this team as well. From both sides, it suits each other.”

Edited by FLB, 01 December 2024 - 20:06.

[Nathan]

Flavio is the spirit of Formula 1.

[Disgrace]

The way Alpine has treated Ocon this year has been pretty ridiculous, but what can you expect from one of the most shambolic teams on the grid. 

 

I like Esteban, and hope that Haas is a bit of a kinder environment to him next year. 

 

Ocon poisoned the well himself at Monaco, really.

[DJH63]

Ocon poisoned the well himself at Monaco, really.

I always thought it was a bit overblown. They were 10th & 11th, they stayed 10th & 11th, what did it really matter if he overtook his teammate unexpectedly.

[rocque]

Alonso: left Alpine on bad terms

Piastri: left Alpine on bad terms

Ocon: left Alpine on bad terms

 

I think I see a common pattern here.

It is also really underwhelming how they separated their way with Palmer and Hulkenberg.

[billm99uk]

Well after todays' effort, I can't say I'm surprised.

[messy]

I feel quite sorry for Doohan. Distinct feeling that if he's less than sparkling straight out of the box, it might be seen as the perfect justification to back out of running him for 2025, as others have said. And it's a shitty way for what's been quite a long, and moderately successful, partnership with Ocon to end. He should be getting a good send off from the team in Abu Dhabi for several years of good service including a win, beating Alonso in the points, that heroic defence against Hamilton in Suzuka, and Brazil this year. I don't feel like this is a team that treats its drivers right, unless they're flavour of the moment like Gasly is.

[RPM40]

Seems weird for them to drop the experienced driver for 1 race when they're in a tight battle with Haas for the constructors and every point could matter.

[WonderWoman61]

2024 is about to become the first season since 1977 in which three Australian drivers raced at least once (Alan Jones, Larry Perkins, Vern Schuppan, there was also a 4th but Brian McGuire only entered the British GP and didn't pre-qualify).

Good luck Jack Doohan!

[billm99uk]

Well if Doohan doesn't want the chance, Alpine can probably find a few guys would would. 

[Jellyfishcake]

I really don't get the comparison, Doohan has shown more in F2 and F3 than the likes of Colapinto or Lawson, arguably also Bearman. He could've been an F2 champion in his 2nd year if not for car troubles (confirmed and serious, not just excuses) early in the season. Comparing him to Jolyon "4 seasons in F2" Palmer is just laughable. 

 

Yeah, I mean as much as I rate Palmer for his punditry, he's nowhere near Doohan as a driver.

I'd disagree on Bearman (though you did say arguably), but certainly no doubt in my mind that Doohan has shown more than both the other two mentioned.

In some ways it's a shame he didn't get to properly fight for the title last year, he's unfairly rated as a result, just shows the F2 lottery not being kind to him has lasting impact on a legacy

[messy]

People underrate Bearman because his second season has been so messy, he did great last year, lots of feature race wins and that Baku double, then no wonder really that this season has been so up and down given his split focus with F1. He’s extremely promising.

But Doohan, he did do quite well. Albeit I had it in my head that he’d won more feature races than he did. I think he’s solidly ahead of Lawson, Colapinto etc though, and they’ve done alright in F1. And he’s still much younger than I thought, too. Maybe his best stat is the number of front row starts he’s had, including 5 poles. Not many can better that over two seasons in F2. He’s plenty quick.

[noikeee]

I like it when this happens, it's like losing your nerve and opening your presents on Christmas Eve

The present seems like it's poisoned though

[engineblock1]

Seems weird for them to drop the experienced driver for 1 race when they're in a tight battle with Haas for the constructors and every point could matter.

Not weird considering this team seems to be taking participation in F1 very casually, and one wonders what is their motivation to be in the series.

[Nemo1965]

I’m getting a lot of Jolyon Palmer vibes with Doohan in that car next year. A potentially good seat wasted by an average not very spectacular driver.

So you are saying the next great pundit is already being trained? 😀

[Myrvold]

Ok then, makes SOME sense but a bit weird to take that last race away from him no?

 

Not exactly rare, not that usual the last decade, but Trulli got forced out by Briatore for the last few races in 2004, replaced by Villeneuve who himself dropped the last race for BAR in 2003. Olivier Panis also dropped the last race for Toyota in 2004, Alexander Wurz dropped the last race of the season for Williams in 2007.

[loki]

Alonso: left Alpine on bad terms

Piastri: left Alpine on bad terms

Ocon: left Alpine on bad terms

 

I think I see a common pattern here.

 

Me too.  They keep hiring people with bad attitudes….  

 

Even aside from not being able to separate amicably with drivers and staff they don’t seem to be a pleasant place to work.

[GreenMachine]

Me too.  They keep hiring people with bad attitudes….  

 

Even aside from not being able to separate amicably with drivers and staff they don’t seem to be a pleasant place to work.

 

Don't forget that Danny Ric bailed after a year, mind you that was out of the frying pan into the fire ... 

[gowebber]

Great to see Doohan get a race early but hope this talk from Briatore isn't true. Is there any quotes etc supporting these sort of rumours?? Would be incredibly harsh for Jack and pretty silly and counterproductive to get rid of him after one race especially after spending all that time and money preparing him for F1 and Doohan sitting out a year in motorsport to proprly prepare for this Alpine seat as well. When has a young driver supposedly with a contract been binned off after 1 race??

The other thing too is Webber is very good friends with Flavio and Mick Doohan. They speak highly of each other and Mark also of Jack's preparation for F1. Given this including Flavio previously managing Mark and also Flavio being Jack's manager he also stands to benefit off Jack's success. He was the one who apparently also pushed hard for Jack's Alpine seat.

"Rumours in the paddock’ suggest that because Briatore is part of his management, he always had an advantage. It wasn’t a surprise that the Italian pushed for his signing."

I would be quite shocked if he binned off Jack after 1 race particularly.

Edited by gowebber, 02 December 2024 - 04:01.