85 replies to this topic

[SCUDmissile]

George 😭🤣😂

Lando who has lost the title in the best car? And couldn't keep his pole into turn 1 to save his life for a while? Okay.

It's the world champion and the guy who has scored the most points since summer break.

[brucewayne]

“Inconsistent”

Men lie, women lie, numbers don’t.

[brucewayne]

Prior to the race, Jenson Button opined that the top 3 drivers in this year's championship were the top 3 on the grid, though not in theorder they lined up.

Button put Verstappen as clear #1, with Norris and Russell as equal #2.

Do you agree with this assessment?

Same drivers, different order?

What drivers have been the top 3 this year in your opinion?

So British bias is real after all?

Edited by brucewayne, 03 December 2024 - 16:06.

[noikeee]

“Inconsistent”

He binned it whilst leading a race once, therefore will forever be "inconsistent" and "mistake prone".

Edited by noikeee, 03 December 2024 - 21:00.

[Massa]

It is Charles most consistent year. He is close to finish 2nd in championship, only 8 points behind Norris who never had DNF this year, meanwhile Norris had the best car half the season.

Canada : 0 point
Austria : 2 points
Silverstone : 0 point.

Without McLaren cheating with the rear wing at Baku, Leclerc would have been equal or 1 point behind Norris in championship.


I know it hurt some people here, but Charles in that McLaren would be WDC today, and McLaren already WCC.

Edited by Massa, 03 December 2024 - 21:18.

[dissident]

One more vote for Max, Charles, George.

 

I've been hard on Lando because he bottled way too many races, but he has been very quick and has easily had the measure of Oscar.

 

Looking at the midfield, Gasly and Hulk are the ones that stand out to me.

[krea]

“Inconsistent”

It cracks me up how much worse both McLaren pilots performed.

[P123]

Verstappen is obviously no.1.  Leclerc secured 2nd best of the year a few races back .  I think George has snuck ahead of Lando to 3rd best driver of the year on recent performances. 

[PitViperRacing]

1. Verstappen
2. LeClerc
3. Russell
4. Norris
5. Sainz
6. Piastri
7. Gasly
8. Hamilton
9. Hulkenberg
10. Alonso

That's my top 10

[baddog]

Got to be nuts to rate Russell ahead of Leclerc. Ferrari pairing has EASILY been the best this year, and Charles is the clear winner there.

 

1. Verstappen
2. LeClerc
3. Russell-Norris
5. Sainz
6. Gasly-Hulkenberg

8. Piastri
9. Alonso-Hamilton

 

This probably does injustice to some people lower down but its truly hard to place lower field drivers.

[Benchulo]

My top 10 would be:

1. Verstappen
2. Leclerc
3. Russell
4. Sainz
5. Norris
6. Alonso
7. Hamilton
8. Tsunoda
9. Gasly
10. Piastri

Edited by Benchulo, 04 December 2024 - 01:58.

[Analog]

Has the competition for "Top 3" ever been harder? For me, it's a coin toss between Russel, Lando and Leclerc, and to that trio maybe we need to add Alonso and Hamilton who's lack of inspiration of not having a championship in sight might have left them performing below their own level. Then we have Sainz and Piastri who can beat them all on a good day (but so could Barrichello and Coulthard). 

[Zava]

putting Russell over Leclerc is peak recency bias (before vegas, was anyone even talking about Russell's season?), and putting Norris, who is barely beating him in a much better car, is just delusional.

[messy]

Disagree with Jenson because I think this season's top two is Verstappen and Leclerc and its not even a close run thing. There's a clear gap back from those two.

Oh OK, can't resist

1. Verstappen
2. Leclerc
3. Russell
4. Norris
5. Sainz
6. Piastri
7. Hamilton
8. Alonso
9. Gasly
10. Hulkenberg

[MJB5990]

Charles is second, and it's not close. Piastri has been largely dominated by Lando who is seen in most places as a bit of a bottler, not sure what that says for Piastri who is rapidly approaching 50 GP's. George's rating depends on how you view Lewis' season really. Carlos has been a bit of an annoyance to Leclerc but there's no doubt who's had the better season. I actually think this year is bloody difficult to rank, because most guys have been all over the place. Ocon had the better of Gasly early on but now the car is getting better, Pierre appears to be turning into Senna. Albon looked good alongside Sargeant, then Colapinto came in and was very close but now Franco has fallen off and keeps crashing. Stroll is still pretty terrible, Perez even worse. Alonso has looked bang average for most of the season. Lawson hasn't looked like a huge upgrade on Ricciardo, Tsunoda seems to have had a decent season but who really knows. Hulkenberg might be in the top seven but had a shocking Sunday in Qatar. The whole order is all over the place. Even Zhou, who I think has had maybe the most pathetic season I've seen in a while, even he just randomly put it together and stayed out of trouble in Qatar to score points while his teammate who has outqualified him almost every single weekend looks like he's going to end the season without a point. Madness. 

[PlatenGlass]

putting Russell over Leclerc is peak recency bias (before vegas, was anyone even talking about Russell's season?), and putting Norris, who is barely beating him in a much better car, is just delusional.

I don't think it's just recency bias. He's been putting Hamilton in the shade pace-wise all year and has generally been fairly solid. Ferrari have had a better car overall than Mercedes and so it's been harder for the Mercs to stand out.

Also Leclerc hasn't generally stood out. He's been a bit better than Sainz and has stealthed his way up the points standings.

Edited by PlatenGlass, 04 December 2024 - 09:14.

[messy]

Charles is second, and it's not close. Piastri has been largely dominated by Lando who is seen in most places as a bit of a bottler, not sure what that says for Piastri who is rapidly approaching 50 GP's. George's rating depends on how you view Lewis' season really. Carlos has been a bit of an annoyance to Leclerc but there's no doubt who's had the better season. I actually think this year is bloody difficult to rank, because most guys have been all over the place. Ocon had the better of Gasly early on but now the car is getting better, Pierre appears to be turning into Senna. Albon looked good alongside Sargeant, then Colapinto came in and was very close but now Franco has fallen off and keeps crashing. Stroll is still pretty terrible, Perez even worse. Alonso has looked bang average for most of the season. Lawson hasn't looked like a huge upgrade on Ricciardo, Tsunoda seems to have had a decent season but who really knows. Hulkenberg might be in the top seven but had a shocking Sunday in Qatar. The whole order is all over the place. Even Zhou, who I think has had maybe the most pathetic season I've seen in a while, even he just randomly put it together and stayed out of trouble in Qatar to score points while his teammate who has outqualified him almost every single weekend looks like he's going to end the season without a point. Madness.

To be honest personally found it quite easy to come up with a top ten this year, I felt last year was harder. For me - not saying I’m right - four kinda pick themselves and it’s just a discussion about which order. Sainz, Piastri and Hamilton next group and a question of order. After that I feel like the three strongest midfield drivers are quite straightforward to pick. Gasly a bit of recency, Alonso has ultimately destroyed Stroll again after that early wobble, Hulk probably would have been best of them but his form in the last few races makes me wonder a little bit because since the updates he’s been behind both Bearman and Magnussen.

Last year was a massive headache because aside from Max there were arguments for most of the top ten to be second, or tenth, or in between.

[Marklar]

I don't think it's just recency bias. He's been putting Hamilton in the shade pace-wise all year and has generally been fairly solid. Ferrari have had a better car overall than Mercedes and so it's been harder for the Mercs to stand out.

Also Leclerc hasn't generally stood out. He's been a bit better than Sainz and has stealthed his way up the points standings.

Russell and Hamilton were close until late summer. He was leading the quali H2H clearly obviously but the gaps were usually small (now they are mostly large, may be not purely down to him, that's the caveat obviously). he was clearly weaker in races (still probably is weaker, albeit less but I highly suspect that's less down to him). and he did loads of mistakes (in the 2nd half only really in Austin in quali). At midseason many had them close together and due recency bias some even Lewis ahead.

He was definitely well behind Norris by midseason (who also had his worst performances since then too) but is trending positively. Whether you put him ahead depends on how much his "jump" in the 2nd half is down to him or down to Hamilton. It's probably a bit of both. he has the lowest average grid position since the summer break despite usually having the 4th quickest car (thanks to outliers of others, mind), so it at least isn't 100 % Lewis dropping the ball or the dynamics of icing a departing driver out imo.

The good thing Norris has is that his speed is fairly consistent in both quali and race with some impressive outliers (when he is crushing Piastri) and that he never really does big mistakes. only small/medium level mistakes, but they have obviously added up.

in case of Russell you also have to consider how impressive it really is to be still slower than a unmotivated 40 year old in races (even if it's Lewis) and only recently (which I suspect will be partly related to his soon-to-be-departed team mate increasingly getting iced out) being really dominant in quali against a unmotivated 40 year old who was in his prime already not the greatest qualifier.

So Russell/Norris are hard to keep apart IMO. Don't mind either way. but neither is close to 2nd. They would be both close to Leclerc if either had replicated the stronger half of their season (Russell more so)

Edited by Marklar, 04 December 2024 - 09:47.

[Claudius]

My list:

 

Max

Lando/Charles/George

Sainz

[Claudius]

Russell and Hamilton were close until late summer. He was leading the quali H2H clearly obviously but the gaps were usually small (now they are mostly large, may be not purely down to him, that's the caveat obviously). he was clearly weaker in races (still probably is weaker, albeit less but I highly suspect that's less down to him). and he did loads of mistakes (in the 2nd half only really in Austin in quali). At midseason many had them close together and due recency bias some even Lewis ahead.

He was definitely well behind Norris by midseason (who also had his worst performances since then too) but is trending positively. Whether you put him ahead depends on how much his "jump" in the 2nd half is down to him or down to Hamilton. It's probably a bit of both. he has the lowest average grid position since the summer break despite usually having the 4th quickest car (thanks to outliers of others, mind), so it at least isn't 100 % Lewis dropping the ball or the dynamics of icing a departing driver out imo.

The good thing Norris has is that his speed is fairly consistent in both quali and race with some impressive outliers (when he is crushing Piastri) and that he never really does big mistakes. only small/medium level mistakes, but they have obviously added up.

in case of Russell you also have to consider how impressive it really is to be still slower than a unmotivated 40 year old in races (even if it's Lewis) and only recently (which I suspect will be partly related to his soon-to-be-departed team mate increasingly getting iced out) being really dominant in quali against a unmotivated 40 year old who was in his prime already not the greatest qualifier.

So Russell/Norris are hard to keep apart IMO. Don't mind either way. but neither is close to 2nd. They would be both close to Leclerc if either had replicated the stronger half of their season (Russell more so)

 

Unmotivated? Sure, if that helps you argument. 

Edited by Claudius, 04 December 2024 - 10:57.

[TheMidnight]

Max

 

 

 

Charles

 

 

 

Lando

Russell/Piastri

Sainz

 

Argue the rest amongst yourselves. 

[Anderis]

putting Russell over Leclerc is peak recency bias (before vegas, was anyone even talking about Russell's season?), and putting Norris, who is barely beating him in a much better car, is just delusional.

Recency bias?

 

Maybe for yourself. Russell was faster than Hamilton in like 7 or 8 out of first 9 weekends of the season, people just didn't care because the car was not competitive, while Leclerc didn't beat Sainz once up until China.

Edited by Anderis, 04 December 2024 - 11:23.

[vlado]

It cracks me up how much worse both McLaren pilots performed.

Norris got “schooled” by VER a few times and it hurt his results overall and PIA is still learning so I think they will both do much better next year.

[RedRabbit]

Unmotivated? Sure, if that helps you argument.

I also see the narrative about the driver with more than 100 Pole Positions to his name is persisting that he was never the greatest of qualifiers.

Strangely, it's a narrative that only cropped up over the last 2 years.

[rocque]

Hamilton ahead of Russell: China sprint race, Miami GP, Spanish GP, British GP, Hungarian GP (Russell's worst quali of the year on a damp track), Italian GP, Mexican GP (Russell missed the whole Friday thanks to Antonelli). Hamilton shouldn't even be in the top10.

 

If Russell ahead of Leclerc is such a great injustice (according to some), then what is Hulkenberg behind Hamilton, Piastri and Sainz? Hulkenberg was competitve all year long with a few worse weekends.

The car wasn't going well on hard, but his stints on medium were epic in the Miami GP. He was on the backfoot in Canada, because of the inferior rear wing with higher downforce, but almost made it into top10. At Zandvoort, he has left Magnussen in dust, despite crashing in each practice. However, each time of these three he was 11th, so it doesn't look so 'cool' like a top3 finish...

[F1Frog]

Hulkenberg has had some awful races as well, like Brazil and Qatar. But when he is comfortably beaten by Magnussen, as has often been the case, it isn't as noticeably bad as when Sainz, Piastri or Hamilton has a shocker because he isn't in a frontrunning car. Hulkenberg has had a good season but he is far more inconsistent than any of those three, and only makes 10th on my list as a result.

[F1Frog]

I would suggest Russell's margin of superiority over Hamilton in 2024 has been greater than Leclerc's over Sainz, who Ferrari are replacing in favour of Hamilton. Both in terms how often Russell beats Hamilton, and by how much when he does. That puts him just ahead of Leclerc in my list, because while Sainz is also ahead of Hamilton, that is because of Hamilton being more inconsistent than Sainz and having some really bad days; in general their level has been very similar, but Russell has been more consistently ahead than Leclerc.

 

Meanwhile, Norris has not been outqualified by Piastri since Monaco (Baku doesn't count). And while Piastri also comes below Sainz for me, that is again because of his inconsistency, and his general outright pace is probably better than Sainz's. I think that Norris has a tenth over either Leclerc or Russell in qualifying, and has superior race pace as well, and that outweighs his considerably worse racecraft. That is why Norris ranks second for me.

[Ali623]

Also Leclerc hasn't generally stood out. He's been a bit better than Sainz and has stealthed his way up the points standings.

Hasn’t stood out? This season he’s won Monaco, his home race, for the first time. Won the Italian GP on the second occasion for Ferrari. He’s beaten Sainz in the majority of GPs this year.

Even last weekend, he finished P2 in a Qatar GP where Ferrari were probably the fourth best car in the race.

[RedKloud]

I had been a skeptic before, but I have to say that George has impressed me this year.  

LeClerc under appreciated as usual - I think he is pretty much the same level as Max. 

[rocque]

Hulkenberg has had some awful races as well, like Brazil and Qatar. But when he is comfortably beaten by Magnussen, as has often been the case, it isn't as noticeably bad as when Sainz, Piastri or Hamilton has a shocker because he isn't in a frontrunning car. 

Sainz crashed in Canada, with Perez at Baku, twice in Brazil... Hamilton is underdelivering in qualifying most of the 2024. Piastri had a few great weekends and was often way off Norris...

 

Magnussen outperformed him in Mexico. It was once in a long time when he was ahead on merit in the main race...

 

I don't think so. Midfield is a tight battle this year and not very forgiving...

[DW46]

Verstappen, LeClerc, Norris, Russel, Hulkenberg

[CharlesWinstone]

The question was best 3 drivers.

Max
Lando/Charles

[tyker]

I see some have done their top 10s.

 

01. Verstappen

02. Leclerc

03. Norris

04. Russell

05. Sainz

06. Alonso

07. Hamilton

08. Piastri

09. Gasly

10. Hulkenberg

[PlatenGlass]

I see some have done their top 10s.

 

 

And we'll have to do another thread after Abu Dhabi based on the full season with all the extra information from one more race!

[tyker]

And we'll have to do another thread after Abu Dhabi based on the full season with all the extra information from one more race!

I can't see one race changing much.

[Spillage]

Norris shouldn't be in the top 3 imo. 3 wins is nowhere near enough in that car. He should have won the title.