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Motor Racing Safety Society


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#1 karlcars

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Posted 04 December 2024 - 10:40

Back in the late 1960s and early 1970s I was involved (the perpetrator in fact) in the Motor Racing Safety Society. 

 

We were the first to bring together experts from all aspects of this theme to compare notes and make proposals for improvement. Each year at Watkins Glen's F1 race we brought people together who could contribute to this important objective.

 

I'm now in touch  with Preston Lerner, who is writing a book on the issue of racing safety, its history etc. Would you think I could provide him with relevant information? It's all sealed away in a Florida warehouse!

 

We published regular bulletins and reached out to experts around the world -- I think for the first time tackling the topic seriously. 

 

I'm obliged to check with this esteemed group to see if anyone has information on the MRSS or an idea of where to find it. Thanks a lot! 

 

Karl Ludvigsen



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#2 Rupertlt1

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Posted 04 December 2024 - 11:29

Try: https://archive.org/...ociety"&sin=TXT

RGDS RLT



#3 Doug Nye

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Posted 04 December 2024 - 14:16

As I recall that period - and that topic - the vast majority of engineers, team execs, racing authority figures, sponsors and race promoters/organisers constantly referred to the work of Louis Stanley, Jackie Stewart, the Jim Clark report, and Dr Michael Henderson's findings than any other investigative or advisory body.  Was MRSS essentially US-centric, or was it that 'we' on this side of the Atlantic were supposedly more Euro (or Rest of the World) centric?  The people I recall being really influential in this area were most certainly Europe/UK/Rest of the World focused.

 

DCN



#4 Rupertlt1

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Posted 04 December 2024 - 15:33

Nomex U.S. invention, also Bell helmets.

RGDS RLT



#5 Doug Nye

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Posted 04 December 2024 - 21:04

Indy-style race car seat belts, roll-over bars, aerospace construction and fuel cell tankage etc of the Ford Mark IV too - of course - but circuit safety measures, not so much...

 

DCN



#6 DCapps

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Posted 04 December 2024 - 21:28

Back in the late 1960s and early 1970s I was involved (the perpetrator in fact) in the Motor Racing Safety Society. 

 

We were the first to bring together experts from all aspects of this theme to compare notes and make proposals for improvement. Each year at Watkins Glen's F1 race we brought people together who could contribute to this important objective.

 

I'm now in touch  with Preston Lerner, who is writing a book on the issue of racing safety, its history etc. Would you think I could provide him with relevant information? It's all sealed away in a Florida warehouse!

 

We published regular bulletins and reached out to experts around the world -- I think for the first time tackling the topic seriously. 

 

I'm obliged to check with this esteemed group to see if anyone has information on the MRSS or an idea of where to find it. Thanks a lot! 

 

Karl Ludvigsen

 

Karl,

 

If at all possible it would be great if you could help Preston with his project. 

Preston is a friend of some years and I have taken a great interest in this project.

It should fill in a niche in motor sport history that needs a good look.

 

Thanks,

 

Don



#7 Jim Thurman

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Posted 05 December 2024 - 00:04

Indy-style race car seat belts, roll-over bars, aerospace construction and fuel cell tankage etc of the Ford Mark IV too - of course - but circuit safety measures, not so much...

I don't know about that. Armco barriers, concrete walls (as flawed as they turned out to be), stronger catch fencing were all U.S. safety upgrades, all while European circuits still featured drivers tripping over road furniture or flying off into unprotected trees. Not that there weren't individual circuits on both sides of the Atlantic (and Pacific) that were better, or worse, or featured some ridiculously stupid oversights. But, that sadly continued to be true everywhere for far too many years.



#8 68targa

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Posted 05 December 2024 - 10:10

If memory serves me correctly, John Fitch was prominent in the development of Armco barriers for road and circuit use in the late 50s and early 1960s.



#9 MichaelHenderson

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Posted 09 December 2024 - 23:41

I had a bit to do with the Motor Racing Safety Society as a result of my friendship with Philip Hight, an American biomechanical engineer with a passionate interest in the sport. I'm not sure of the dates, but it would have been in the early eighties that he was its President, and MD's Richard Nensel and Robert Green were Vice Presidents. For the record, the Secretary/Treasurer at that time was Dean Fisher, and the Directors were Chris Economaki, John McKibben, Sam Posey, Hugh Scully, John States, Jackie Stewart, Basil Tye and Ken Walker. Phil published a paper on "Bioengineering Evaluation of Racing Safety" in the 1980 conference of the Association for the Advancement of Automotive Medicine (AAAM, with which I became intimately associated).

 

The MRSS seemed to fade away, but its position in the field was effectively taken over by the International Council of Motorsport Sciences, https://icmsmotorsportsafety.org/. Its founding members included Steve Olvey as Chairman, and who has become a prominent auto and football sports medico and author. The ICMS is still going well, and has an annual conference at which I have spoken many times, and a good line-up of experts on its board. Its growth owes a lot to the work of (now retired) Hugh Scully, a Canadian surgeon and a fellow member of the FIA's now defunct, Watkins-led Institute for Motorsport Safety. 

 

Karl, I didn't know of your early involvement with the MRSS, which may have been before Phil Hight's chairmanship. And while I'm here, I should say that I have also been approached by Preston Lerner, have provided him with some material and enjoyed a Zoom conversation with him. He is deeply interested in just why the change in motorsport safety efforts over that period was so rapid. I share his interest, as similar changes in road safety occurred in many developed countries at the same time or soon after.



#10 SJ Lambert

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Posted 10 December 2024 - 01:59

Welcome to the forum Michael! It’s splendid to see you here!

#11 Doug Nye

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Posted 10 December 2024 - 09:05

Splendid!  What-ho Michael!  Thanks for taking the time...

 

Such first-hand information from such a highly respected prime player is of course invaluable.

 

However, I believe Karl was seeking information from some ten years earlier.

 

DCN



#12 bradbury west

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Posted 10 December 2024 - 12:38

If memory serves me correctly, John Fitch was prominent in the development of Armco barriers for road and circuit use in the late 50s and early 1960s.

Coming to this a bit late in the day,  I think John Fitch was responsible for the progressively deformable type of barrier, with his variously filled barrels of sand, which must, I think, by the nature of their intended function, be linked directly to the modern system of stacks of banded tyres, of whatever sizes, offering a progressive collapse of speed. For me the classic design is that at Goodwood, and elsewhere, where the stacks are faced with heavy  rubber belting, which in addition to aiding the integrity of the barrier helps to stop the stacks, or loose tyres, coming adrift from the main body. This would seem a better scheme than the punitive effect of Armco.

 

I think it worth mentioning, as I have here previously, the paper which Dr Henderson produced on fire hazards, based on air crashes, which also impacted our sport with a terrible toll years ago.

 

Karl and Don, it may be worth contacting an old school pal of mine from 60 years ago, Professor Adrian Hobbs, CBE, who headed the Transport and Research Laboratory over here. Adrian was the leader of the team which did all the hard leg work, for which Max Mosley was credited, concerning major developments in road safety and vehicle design, and presumably motor racing ,   hence the gong, and is still invited to head up safety conferences around the world. He is easily found via Mr Google.

I cannot offer the “usual” disclaimers, although the last time I saw Adrian was when we went to the Elvington, Yorkshire round of the first UK Drag Fest in September 1964,  when we saw the likes of Don Garlits and Ronnie Sox and others over here with their devices. 
Roger Lund

 

edit. I should have mentioned that Adrian was, and presumably remained, an avid motor sport enthusiast. His recent letter to Motor Sport suggests this.


Edited by bradbury west, 10 December 2024 - 13:03.


#13 karlcars

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Posted 12 December 2024 - 12:58

Yes, and I should just mention that when I go caught up in other pursuits John Fitch took over leadership of the MRSS.

But I'm afraid that he got caught up with other things as well and that contributed to the decline of the MRSS. 

Maybe it did its job to help bring greater awareness in a wide number of circles in the racing world.