80 replies to this topic

[Gravelngrass]

I don't know where the idea that the McLaren was the fastest car over the season comes from.

 

The final WCC standings should be a hint...

[DutchQuicksilver]

1. Verstappen - Didn’t have the best car anymore after Miami, but still won the titel pretty easily. No major mistakes either. Still overall the best this season

2. Norris - Pretty much the only championship rival this season (though more created by the media than actually a rival). Strong season with a few wins. And overall still a lot better than Piastri.

3. Leclerc - A bit under the radar this season, but pretty consistent and overall better than Sainz.

4. Piastri - Still a bit off Norris’ overall pace, but it’s only his second season. No major mistakes, but his race pace needs to improve.

5. Hulkenberg - 37 years old, but this was his best season in F1 I believe. Put that Haas in places where I believe it sometimes didn’t belong. Best of the rest with 11th in the championship.

6. Alonso - Did all he can with a not very good Aston Martin. When the car was still okayish early on he scored the majority of the points.

7. Sainz - Pretty much what you expect from Sainz. No real threat in the championship, but unbeatable on his day. A shame he lost his seat to a deteriorating Hamilton and has to settle for a backmarker seat next year.

8. Russell - Solid season and was way better than Hamilton (though part of it because of Hamilton’s Ferrari move was known all year long).

9. Gasly - When the car got better, there was Gasly. Very strong end to the season and wasn’t involved in any crash!

10. Tsunoda - Good season in the VCARB. Left Ricciardo way behind and was better than Lawson too. A shame Red Bull doesn’t want to risk it giving him Perez’ seat.

 

The rest:

11. Hamilton - Pretty mediocre apart from a strong couple of races during the Summer.

12. Albon - Decent season in a not so strong Williams

13. Bottas - Decent season in a bad Kick Sauber

14. Ocon - Was okay I guess, but didn’t really notice him much, apart from Brazil

15. Magnussen - Had a decent season, but was too much off Hulkenberg’s pace.

16. Stroll - Pretty much what you expect from Stroll

17. Perez - Good first four races, abysmal during the other twenty.

18. Zhou - Poor season, apart from the last let’s say three.

19. Ricciardo - Nothing noteworthy, apart from Miami sprint race.

20. Sargeant - Yeah, not much to say.

 

Colapinto and Lawson drove too few races. Bearman and Doohan too of course.

[Alfisti]

I will try to be brief but also note I am taking race 1 through 24 into account as I see a lot of recency bias in some of the posts so far. Oh and will add I think the top half of the grid is as strong as I have seen since my time watching over the past 30 years, there's 7 to 9 legit extremely good drivers.

 

1. Verstappen

An absolutely horrible driver in regards to tactics used and driver sportingness but probably the best season I have seen from a driver since Schumacher in the late 90's. Sublime. Qualifying especially was leaps and bounds ahead of anyone else other than Hulkenberg in terms of maxmising his results. 

 

2. Norris

I have him this high because his race pace is absolutely outstanding and yet rarely seems to be driving on the edge. He has been a touch meek and a bit naïve but tbh a bit hard done by. Whilst the McLaren was arguably the fastest car over the season, I don't feel it had the advantage the red bull had in earlier races and was often fending off Ferrari and Mercedes from race to race. I also feel like he had plenty of good starts from a reaction time and initial launch perspective only to see the red bull hit the nitrous button on as they run through the gears, it was really weird. 

3. Hulkenberg

Seemed to go one one hell of an almost season long run of stellar qualifying results and took the points on offer time after time in the races. Rarely made mistakes, was super reliable and super fast. What a season for a guy I have never really rated TBH and yes, a bit of this is for last yr too. 

 

4. Russell

He will thrive next year without Lewis' shadow hanging over the team. Legit quick with a VERY nervous looking car. Still eats his tyres but really go in amongst it this season and let's be honest, deserved the Spa win. 

 

5. Leclerc

More of the same from Charles, just less massive errors but still have weekends where Sainz betters him too often. Seems a great bloke and I think will handily beat Lewis next year. 

 

6. Sainz

This guy is so underrated. Just missing that final bit of wow but man he pushes Leclerc close doesn't he. 

 

7. Hamilton

Slowly but surely age is catching up with him but race pace seems fine. His whole sort of whiny/paranoid woe is me schtick is wearing a bit thin so the change f scenery will do him good. Looks a man driving on the very edge in qualifying because 99% is not fast enough anymore. 

 

8. Gasly

Tough to judge because we don't really know if Ocon had the same car but he never droppe dhis head and delivered when he had the chance

 

9: Piastri

Seems harsh to put a bloke here who had two wins, a sprint win or two and showed arguably the best race craft and spatial awareness of any driver on the grid. He is a man that if in the right position, makes things happen, he finds a way to get things done and capitalise but he also looks a man both in qualifying and races that is driving at 10/10ths and is still a ways off Lando who is driving within himself. He seems to be on top of the tyre chewing issue but it has definitely slowed him down, he just doesn't have the pace despite making a lot of small errors that he just barely gets away with. 

 

10: Alonso

Age starting to show, good race sprinkled with a lack of edge in qualifying at times. Has maybe 2 years left, at most. Would still back him to race brilliantly in a fast car but not sure he can go toe to toe with the younger guys over a season due to qualifying. 

 

 

Pretty big drop off from here IMHO, performance drops off to these guys;

 

11: Bottas

Excellent season until the last three races where he belted Zhou, then he **** the bed when the car came good right at the end. Would make a useful number 2 at a Williams or an Andretti but tbh it may well be time to go.
 

12: Tsunoda:

Meh .. I dunno... just ... meh. Never seen the lightening speed people speak of and both Daniel (washed up) and Lawson (inexperienced) were too close to him if he had this mythical pace people speak of. Meh.

 

13: Ocon:

Tough to judge as I don't know what he was driving, the change will do him good but he is never going to drive a top car as a number  driver, that dream is over. 

 

14: Albon

Good first half if a touch error prone but then fell apart. Team needed more from him and even last year I felt he crashed too much. 

 

15. Magnussen

Really poor, Hulk absolutely hammered him, very much time to go and won't miss him. 

 

16: Stroll

Why does he stay? Seems miserable, cannot get close to a grandpa and generally just wasting a seat. Definitely time to go. 

 

17. Zhou

Seems a lovely bloke and saved Sauber a fortune in repairs vs other lowly rated drivers but just too damn slow. Won't miss him. 

 

18. Perez

The single worst season I have seen from an experienced driver since....... well ..... honestly I cannot remember one this bad. Slow, horrible race craft, has lost his tyre whispering, jus awful. Time to go. 

 

I have put the rest seperately as I don't like comparing partial with full season drivers. 

 

Sargeant

Poor bastard just never had it, you can be slow or crashy but not both

 

Colapinto

Stunned a the way people over-reacted, crashed back down to earth and will be lucky to get a seat. Deserves one ahead of Stroll and Perez it has to be said as pace seems pretty good. 

 

Lawson

Bit hard done by, as with Piastri last yr I felt he was only really wrong once in all his tangles and the other drivers were testing him but he refused to yield. Decent pace, not crashy and deserves a ride but NFI how good he is

 

Bearman

So hard to read, had some blinders and some shockers, so I dunno but will go out on a limb and say he is not the next guy so to speak, will be good, not great. 

 

Ricciardo

Really did hang with Tsunoda after the first few races but has lost his spark. Time to go, will miss his prime race craft. 

Edited by Alfisti, 09 December 2024 - 19:04.

[FNG]

I think  am 100% agreement with that assessment of the grid. I would move Alonso a touch up but that is only because I am a total fanboy. So that would definitely be a biased one from me. But spot on.

 

EDIT: I would have Russell above Hulk. Hulk's teammate is Magnussen and Russell had Hamilton to contend with. So just for that i would reverse them.

 

It does make me wonder what a Max, or Charles would have done with the HASS. Maybe a few podiums possible? Tough to say

Edited by FNG, 09 December 2024 - 19:26.

[Alfisti]

EDIT: I would have Russell above Hulk. Hulk's teammate is Magnussen and Russell had Hamilton to contend with. So just for that i would reverse them.

 

Yeah this seems fair.

[KWSN - DSM]

Season of 6th's

 

If looking at quarters, Norris did not win one, he was the actual accumulator... I had expected a different outcome before I pulled the numbers.

 

[vlado]

[stevesingo]

The final WCC standings should be a hint...

 

Would that be the WCC where one constructor only had one driver?

 

If Perez had scored the same 78% of the points as his teammate as Piastri did, what would the WCC look like?

[RPM40]

1. Verstappen - Didn’t have the best car anymore after Miami, but still won the titel pretty easily. No major mistakes either. Still overall the best this season

2. Norris - Pretty much the only championship rival this season (though more created by the media than actually a rival). Strong season with a few wins. And overall still a lot better than Piastri.

3. Leclerc - A bit under the radar this season, but pretty consistent and overall better than Sainz.

4. Piastri - Still a bit off Norris’ overall pace, but it’s only his second season. No major mistakes, but his race pace needs to improve.

5. Hulkenberg - 37 years old, but this was his best season in F1 I believe. Put that Haas in places where I believe it sometimes didn’t belong. Best of the rest with 11th in the championship.

6. Alonso - Did all he can with a not very good Aston Martin. When the car was still okayish early on he scored the majority of the points.

7. Sainz - Pretty much what you expect from Sainz. No real threat in the championship, but unbeatable on his day. A shame he lost his seat to a deteriorating Hamilton and has to settle for a backmarker seat next year.

8. Russell - Solid season and was way better than Hamilton (though part of it because of Hamilton’s Ferrari move was known all year long).

9. Gasly - When the car got better, there was Gasly. Very strong end to the season and wasn’t involved in any crash!

10. Tsunoda - Good season in the VCARB. Left Ricciardo way behind and was better than Lawson too. A shame Red Bull doesn’t want to risk it giving him Perez’ seat.

 

The rest:

11. Hamilton - Pretty mediocre apart from a strong couple of races during the Summer.

12. Albon - Decent season in a not so strong Williams

13. Bottas - Decent season in a bad Kick Sauber

14. Ocon - Was okay I guess, but didn’t really notice him much, apart from Brazil

15. Magnussen - Had a decent season, but was too much off Hulkenberg’s pace.

16. Stroll - Pretty much what you expect from Stroll

17. Perez - Good first four races, abysmal during the other twenty.

18. Zhou - Poor season, apart from the last let’s say three.

19. Ricciardo - Nothing noteworthy, apart from Miami sprint race.

20. Sargeant - Yeah, not much to say.

 

Colapinto and Lawson drove too few races. Bearman and Doohan too of course.

 

I disagree with the ranking of Hamilton relative to Alonso. I saw little spark from Alonso's season, while Hamilton at times still showed his characteristic pace (albeit in an inconsistent way).

 

I know they had vastly different hardware, but Hamilton was also racing Russell, who is one of the best drivers on the grid and he certainly held his own. Stroll didn't provide Alonso much in the way of a benchmark, and at times he actually was getting beaten by him.

 

Alonso is certainly still deserving of a seat at Aston, but I didn't see much amongst Hamilton's two wins and at time excellent race craft to rank him behind Alonso's anonymous season. I'm comparing these two in particular simply because they are in similar stages of their career.

Edited by RPM40, 09 December 2024 - 21:27.

[Laster]

1. Verstappen - The car had a big advantage at the start of the season, and he used it to the fullest extent to create his points lead. Then when the car was dropped too often 3rd fastest he still kept the points gap from closing in any meaningful way. The drivers championship should have been closer, I think it was more that Max just did everything to keep it away from his pursuers. Sometimes it was over the top, Austria & Mexico got a bit ridiculous, and he wasn't without errors, I do get tired of the *ahem* British bias thing that has been peddled. But undoubtedly he was the fastest driver, and performed to the highest standard.

 

2. Leclerc - The Ferrari dropped in performance midseason before improving again, yet Leclerc was perhaps the most consistent in his results. The only times he finished outside of 5th twice plus a DNF across 24 races. Sainz remains closer than I expect he would against Verstappen or prime Hamilton, but Leclerc has delivered a very strong season. How he performs with Hamilton will be very interesting to watch.

 

3. Norris - I think he had a better season than some give him credit for. During those early races the car was some way back from both Red Bull and Ferrari, but it improved and he started getting results. The Mclaren was probably on average the strongest car, but the performance of all those top 4 varied from race to race. It was not a case of the Mclaren having any substantial advantage. Still Norris did fail to close the gap on Verstappen in a meaningful way despite the car being better than the Red Bull for a long period. Norris did however quite comfortably beat Piastri, perhaps moreso than in Piastri's rookie season which was a surprise.

 

4. Russell - Russell had a good year, his qualifying record again Hamilton is very impressive now, and his Spa win prior to being disqualified was extremely impressive. He's got a good racing head on his shoulders even if he does feel very corporate. Russell's biggest failiing typically comes in the race though. As much as he outqualified Hamilton usually caught him up in the race, often passing him. From such a dominant qualifying record I would have expected a bigger final points gap even with DSQ accounted for.

 

5. Sainz - Picking up a pair of wins despite being dropped by Ferrari and showing he is very much deserving of a car at the front of the field, Sainz continued to keep Leclerc honest. He was closer to his teammate in qualifying than any of the other four, and his performances remained very consistent across the year. But he is first of the drivers who finished second to their teammates.

 

6. Hulkenberg - I debated this for a while because quite a few drivers had similar seasons. Hulk's qualifying heroics continue to be entertaining on a saturday, and his race performances are consistent. The back to back P6's were great, but he continues to lack the big random big result, and has a few too many errors in him that holds him back in his performances.

 

7. Gasly - Like Hulk he performed some heroics, I put him behind because at the start of the season he was a step behind Ocon, it was only at Monaco did the performance switch, and right towards the end the car and him came alive with some strong midseason performances.

 

8. Hamilton - Lewis qualifying performances are what drag him down here. His race pace continues to be fantastic. That is what will make Ferrari intriguing next year. Maybe he is losing his outright speed in qualifying, or maybe he just couldn't adapt to the car, I expect driving the Ferrari and how he stacks up against Leclerc will answer that quick.

 

9. Alonso - He had a bad season by Alonso's standards, when the car lost performances he seemed to lose interest. And yet despite that he did continue outscore the rest of the midfield. The car was initially better than the others, challenging the Mercs, but that quickly faded and it was swiftly rooted in the midfield. He ended the season 28 points clear of anyone else in the midfield. My biggest gripe though is that Stroll got too close at times, particularly in qualifying.

 

10. Piastri - Had this ratings come in midseason I would have Piastri higher, and despite picking up a pair of well deserved wins, I felt all too often he was too far off Norris. Further than Sainz is from Leclerc. The qualifying battle was one of the most one sided. He was further off Norris than in his rookie season, that was very surprising. I expected him to be closer. All in all I felt his season was a bit poor.

 

11. Tsunoda - The start of the season when the car was performing was great, reliably picked up points and headed the midfield, when the car fell away however so did Yuki. I also felt Ricciardo had the better race pace of the two, while Yuki had the better qualifying pace, and Lawson was a touch to close to him particularly in race pace. With 11 Q3 appearances and 9 points finishes, he's evolved into a driver who can and will deliver results when the car is caprable. I don't think he 'deserves' the Red Bull seat, a top car should go to the best driver. But of the choices that fall under the Red Bull umbrella he has performed the strongest of all across the season.

 

12. Ocon - He started off strong when the car was awful he kept pushing it through Q1 to some rightful praise. But then Monaco happened and afterwards the rest of the season he seemed on the back foot. With one big highlight in Brazil of course. Ocon is a good driver, but his career is now starting to feel like he is self sabotaging it. Haas should suit him better, but I don't see where his F1 career can possibly go from there.

 

13. Albon - I don't rate his performances nearly as highly as a lot of British publications. Albon has looked good at times when the car has looked good. This year he did not have a car with a huge straightline speed, and so there was no heroic defending of his position. He picked up points but he had some big crashes along the way. Latifi and Sargeant made him look good, Colapinto for the first time since Verstappen put him under some pressure and he started making errors. Maybe it was just bad timing. But I suspect not. Sainz being his teammate will give us a true read of how far he has come since his Red Bull days.

 

14. Ricciardo - I don't think Ricciardo had as bad a season as people think. His biggest issue was Tsunoda being stronger in qualifying. Too often Yuki made it into Q3 where Dan did not, as a result he would end up being stuck in the pack while Tsunoda ran in the points. His race pace looked stronger in my eyes, and I did not see an improvement in the teams fortunes when Lawson arrived. He was stronger in the middle of the season when Tsunoda struggled, but he still seemed to be on his back foot in qualifying relative to Yuki, and I think that's what has cost him in the end.

 

15. Bottas - It's hard to judge a driver when they've been given the worst car. He probably had a better season than 15th but without any real highlights to show for it. The car had two good races right at the end of the season, he made Q3 for one of them and then hit two cars to take himself out the running. Not great. His qualifying against Zhou was great but then while Zhou hasn't been out of his depth in F1, he's never looked particularly quick either, so how much of an achievement is that? Bottas would useful for any midfield team, but at the same time with the exception of Stroll there isn't anyone I would definitiely swap him out for either.

 

16. Magnussen - A tough season from KMag, it took him far too long to finally make a Q3 appearance when Hulk was making them regularly, and his points total is less than half that off Hulk. He had the 6th or 7th best car, he really should have done more with it, had he done so Haas would have had 6th in the championship. 25 points between him and Hulk is too much in the midfield. He did have a resurgence towards the end of the year though with Haas final upgrade.

 

17. Colapinto - He came in and immediately impressed by matching Albon, even outqualifying him a couple times. Throw in a couple big points finishes and he was looking really good. Then the errors of a rookie crept in, and with the crashes it seemed to set his confidence back and his speed relative to Albon. The guy is a rookie, I don't think he's a star in the making, but he wouldn't be out of place in F1 either, it's just whether someone is prepared to give him time to iron out the errors.

 

18. Lawson - Having only done 6 race weekends this season I'm not going to rate him above many of those who raced for most of the season. He got on pace quick, but the qualifying score show he's currently lacking something to Yuki, against Max that will be something else entirely. His race pace relative to Tsunoda was much better than his qualifying, but still ultimately it didn't feel like there was anything to shout home about. A good strategy call by the team in Austin, and a chaotic day in Brazil got him points. But otherwise he spent a lot of the time rubbing wheels with Perez. He is far from ready to be Verstappen teammate.

 

19. Perez - It was a woeful year. It started off okay in the first five races, when the car was clear of the field, and he is up against Verstappen, but that's no excuse when the car won the drivers championship while he struggled to make Q3 and fight his way back into the points. The further the season dragged on the worse it got. Everyone knew Red Bull were making a mistake when they gave him a contract extension, if they have to spend a huge amount to pay off his contract then more fools them. Cost his team both the constructors and 2nd in the constructors. Worst season of his career.

 

20. Stroll - In fairness to Stroll there were a couple times when he managed to match or get the better of Alonso. But as ever these were really the exception rather than rule. The last time he scored points was in Hungary, and I honestly don't recall a race where he drove exceptionally well. At the start of the year the AM was clear of the midfield. Yet Tsunoda was ahead in points. When the car fell back to be a match for the midfield cars, Hulkenberg and Gasly jumped ahead of him in points too with Ocon just 1 behind. Any other driver he would be gone with his level of underperformance, but it's not coming any time soon.

 

21. Zhou - Saddled with the worst car it was a bad time to suddenly be well off Bottas pace. He was well off Bottas qualifying pace, though he did improve that in the races he was still generally behind. Perhaps he just couldn't adapt to the car, unfortunately for him Sauber only sorted the car for the final two races. He managed to get the teams only points with his performance of the season. But drivers can't only perform when the car is good, his lack of performance when the car was bad is why he no longer has a seat.

 

22 - Sargeant - The crashes reduced for a while at least, but there was no sign of pace and he just looked out of his depth the whole time. There was no saving grace for Sargeant and quite rightly dropped midseason. It's always harsh, but it really needed to be done. I can't think of a single positive word for him.

 

Doohan and Bearman didn't do enough races to rate them compared to everyone else. But Bearman did a great job in two of his three stand in performances. Brazil was tricky though.

Edited by Laster, 09 December 2024 - 21:31.

[Colbul1]

I'll think about a list, but I have 1 quick point to make, why so much love for Hulk? Unless I'm mistaken, he was out qualified 3-0 by Bearman, out scored 1 point to 0, and the race people are saying he had had a mare, at least he wasn't disqualified!

[Marklar]

I'll think about a list, but I have 1 quick point to make, why so much love for Hulk? Unless I'm mistaken, he was out qualified 3-0 by Bearman, out scored 1 point to 0, and the race people are saying he had had a mare, at least he wasn't disqualified!

crazy recency bias (of the last race, ironically his second season half was actually pretty bad, that's the upside of a midfield car, it goes under the radar). also Hulkenberg is traditionally overhyped in this forum, probably because he was unlucky in his career

Edited by Marklar, 09 December 2024 - 22:10.

[Alfisti]

I'll think about a list, but I have 1 quick point to make, why so much love for Hulk? Unless I'm mistaken, he was out qualified 3-0 by Bearman, out scored 1 point to 0, and the race people are saying he had had a mare, at least he wasn't disqualified!

 

I never rated him but other than that little patch there with Bearman he was an animal. Just relentlessly hassling the bottom of the big 4 teams. 

[Laster]

I'll think about a list, but I have 1 quick point to make, why so much love for Hulk? Unless I'm mistaken, he was out qualified 3-0 by Bearman, out scored 1 point to 0, and the race people are saying he had had a mare, at least he wasn't disqualified!

For me it's not so much that Hulk had an outstanding season, he's had better imo. The thing is others who would otherwise be ahead have not had great seasons. Hamilton's qualifying being so far down really knocked his ranking down for me, Alonso seemed to go missing when the car no longer was performing. Those two would otherwise normally be ahead. I would have also expected Piastri to be ahead, but in the end he was quite some way off Norris and his qualifying pulled him back again. While Hulk made a couple dumb errors, for the most part he was consistently up there both in qualifying and races.

[alexsab]

Are you thinking of 2022?

Piastri was VERY close to taking pole this year.

 

Not all that close: Leclerc took pole by 0.154s in Monaco - and by 0.321s (also from Piastri) at Baku.

[noikeee]

Last year I ended up not doing a ranking, so I just retrospectively built one (after reading last season's thread) so I can have a basis of who's moved up or down.

 

This is my 2023 ranking:

1	Max Verstappen
2	Lewis Hamilton
3	Lando Norris
4	Fernando Alonso
5	Charles Leclerc
6	George Russell
7	Carlos Sainz
8	Alex Albon
9	Esteban Ocon
10	Pierre Gasly
11	Oscar Piastri
12	Nico Hulkenberg
13	Valtteri Bottas
14	Yuki Tsunoda
15	Liam Lawson
16	Daniel Ricciardo
17	Kevin Magnussen
18	Sergio Perez
19	Guanyu Zhou
20	Lance Stroll
21	Nyck de Vries
22	Logan Sargeant

For 2024:

 

1. Max Verstappen (no change) - Utterly consensual, comfortably kept up on top of the championship despite having a slower car more or less the entire 2nd half of the season. Well established as the best driver in F1 for a while now.

 

2. Charles Leclerc (up 3) - Possibly his best season yet, not the clearest margin over his teammate as it was quite close on qualifying, but very consistent and free of mistakes, and particularly fast on race day.

 

3. George Russell (up 3) - I can't tell whether it's Lewis declining or George maturing, but I feel he's just slightly underrated as people don't warm to him, this was his best season yet too, totally dominated Lewis in qualy and used this as a springboard to get results. Points total looks closer than it should due to his Spa DQ as that swung things too much.

 

4. Lando Norris (down 1) - His best car yet and he was very fast with it, in fact in terms of sheer speed there is an argument he is ahead of George and maybe even Charles, but I also feel he messed up a bit too often with the equipment he was given, it's a bit of a cliche but he seems mentally fragile tbh.

 

5. Carlos Sainz (up 2) - A very strong end to the season makes me put him ahead of Lewis, just. Midseason his race pace deserted him but he remains a very solid pair of hands and was very very fast in qualifying.

 

6. Lewis Hamilton (down 4) - Clearly his worst season yet and the only time ever I put him outside the top 5 - being outside the top 2 even is rare - but qualifying pace evaporated and then despite having good race pace, he often struggled to recover from the handicaps he'd given himself on the Saturdays.

 

7. Fernando Alonso (down 3) - Gap to Stroll diminished and he had a particularly unimpressive streak midseason, but he was still one of the most dominant drivers in F1 vs his teammate. His ability was hidden due to a particularly disappointing car - specially compared to last years' - but he remains freakishly competitive for a guy in his 40s.

 

8. Oscar Piastri (up 3) - His midseason streak showed clear potential and was the best we've seen from Oscar yet, matching Lando in pace and looking like a plain better racer than his teammate. However the rest of the season was disappointing for me, the last few rounds of the season again clearly showed a guy that too often is lacking a substantial amount of pace vs Lando. The potential is clearly there, if he's more consistently the midseason Oscar then he's got a top 5 spot guaranteed for me, but as of right now I still think he's overrated and I really don't think the McLaren drivers maximised their car this year.

 

9. Nico Hulkenberg (up 3) - A surprise renaissance from an aging driver, increasing his gap over Kevin and often looking like best of the rest in this field. However let's not get too carried away as on that one-off from Bearman he was surprisingly beaten and perhaps is being flattered a little by his teammate.

 

10. Pierre Gasly (no change) - Slowly turned around what had been a disappointing move to Enstone, and finished the season on a hot streak, now feeling confident as the lead driver of the team, but I feel anything higher than 10th would be recency bias. He'd been behind Ocon earlier in the year.

 

11. Esteban Ocon (down 2) - The team totally turned against him midseason and then things flipped and his performance slowly tanked. Still recovered to a sensational 2nd place in Interlagos - just ahead of Pierre - and overall looking at the entire season it was very close between him and Pierre.

 

12. Valtteri Bottas (up 1) - Very hard to read this season, as he suddenly opened up a big qualifying gap over Zhou that wasn't here before, but kept tripping up in the races and the Chinese driver actually was very close to him on Sundays according to what little data I have, as I don't pay close attention to this team. Still I feel the points total in which he got.. 0, is extremely harsh and not a fair representation of what happened.

 

13. Yuki Tsunoda (up 1) - Slowly growing into a better driver as he keeps on beating every teammate put against him, the gap to both Dan and Liam actually increased but I still don't have enough confidence in him to put him in my top 10.

 

14. Alex Albon (down 6) - It was looking like another stellar season from Alex, until Franco Colapinto showed up on the radar and made us question everything we know about Alex, and made me wonder if it wasn't just Logan struggling badly (and Latifi before him) making him look good all along.

 

15. Oliver Bearman (new entry) - His first one-off race was sort of impressive due to the circumstances but still way off Charles' pace, however his second one-off race was something else as he immediately was ahead of Hulkenberg. There's legitimately something in here, despite the bad season in F2. Averaging the 2 one-off races I'll have to put him ahead of Kevin Magnussen but far from the Ferrari drivers, I guess?

 

16. Franco Colapinto (new entry) - Straight onto Alex Albon's pace, which was legitimately very impressive... but crash happy. I think he's probably better than he looked in F2 and lower series due to often being stuck in bad teams, but I also think the hype about him is batshit mad and is beyond his actual potential. Time will tell.

 

17. Kevin Magnussen (no change) - Feels like he's declining, but I still can't justify putting him lower, as he still remains a sort of solid driver and had occasional weekends he'd beat Hulkenberg despite generally being a fair bit off.

 

18. Liam Lawson (down 3) - Not as impressive as his cameo appearances last year, not far off Yuki, in fact I thought he did just marginally slightly better than Dan, but still struggled in qualifying a little.

 

19. Daniel Ricciardo (down 3) - Somehow went backwards despite the momentum having been with him late last year, it seems his confidence was just absolutely shot by his McLaren stint and couldn't recover. A sad end to a career of a driver who I liked a lot and for a while had an undisputed constant place in my top 5.

 

20. Guanyu Zhou (down 1) - An enigma. Very poor season in terms of qualifying yet could get the occasional good results in the races - but I think those were often lucky breaks.

 

21. Lance Stroll (down 1) - Actually had a period in which he seemed like he was starting to match Alonso, but then lost his way again and his body language suggest a driver totally lacking in confidence and motivation, and I never though he had much talent in the first place - but he is better than this at his best.

 

22. Sergio Perez (down 4) - Oh dear. His performance had already tanked in 2023, but somehow took another step further back in 2024. Never the fastest driver in F1 but once a consistent solid guy on the lower ends of the top 10, it seems Max just totally broke his confidence. Dismal season with the exception of Baku and a couple decent performances early in the season whilst the car was still dominant. Which is the only reason he's not last...

 

23. Jack Doohan (new entry) - Put into a position where he could only look bad, and it shown. A poor qualifying session but then a decent performance in the race which just about saved him from last place. He's obviously better than this and it will be interesting to see how he does when given proper preparation.

 

24. Logan Sargeant (down 2) - This feels harsh because I thought he did better than the previous season, and the junior performances show he's clearly got the ability to be much better than this, but it just didn't work out in F1 for him and the gap to Alex was consistently large. Franco coming in and immediately matching Alex just made him look extra bad.

[Ali623]

The 2024 rankings according to maths (or at least this specific equation). Always fun to read these sort of things imo, whether you agree with them or not.

 

Interestingly, according to the overall driver ranking that comes from this model - Albon and Sainz should be fairly well matched next season, whereas Leclerc should largely dominate Hamilton.

 

Also interesting that both Haas drivers are ranked very low - according to the model, the car was even better than shown this season (and in the hands of Verstappen, would have scored more points than Perez got in the Red Bull).

 

https://f1mathematic...driver-ratings/

 

1. Verstappen

2. Leclerc

3. Norris

4. Russell

5. Sainz

6. Alonso

7. Albon

8. Ocon

9. Hamilton

10. Gasly

11. Piastri

12. Tsunoda

13. Hulkenberg

14. Bottas

15. Ricciardo

16. Colapinto

17. Lawson

18. Zhou

19. Stroll

20. Sargeant

21. Perez

22. Magnussen

[Alfisti]

Any model that has Hulkenberg that low, let alone behind Tsunoda and Albon, is utterly useless. By that logic the Haas was up there as the fastest car of the year. 

Edited by Alfisti, 10 December 2024 - 15:02.

[Ali623]

Any model that has Hulkenberg that low, let alone behind Tsunoda and Albon, is utterly useless. By that logic the Haas was up there as the fastest car of the year. 

 

The the model suggests that the Haas was the 5th fastest car of the season overall, which is why Hulkenberg only ends up 13th and Magnussen last. I do think the Haas drivers are way too lowely ranked though. They state Albon still lacks enough data in the model for him to be as accurately ranked. Other than that, it's honestly not far off what I'd rank the drivers for this season to be honest.

[Risil]

How did the model figure out "car performance"? The article wasn't particularly clear.

[DutchQuicksilver]

I disagree with the ranking of Hamilton relative to Alonso. I saw little spark from Alonso's season, while Hamilton at times still showed his characteristic pace (albeit in an inconsistent way).

 

I know they had vastly different hardware, but Hamilton was also racing Russell, who is one of the best drivers on the grid and he certainly held his own. Stroll didn't provide Alonso much in the way of a benchmark, and at times he actually was getting beaten by him.

 

Alonso is certainly still deserving of a seat at Aston, but I didn't see much amongst Hamilton's two wins and at time excellent race craft to rank him behind Alonso's anonymous season. I'm comparing these two in particular simply because they are in similar stages of their career.

 

Yeah, well I just don’t rate Russell that high and you expect more from a seven time world champion who is still 5 years younger than Alonso. Still, nrs. 6 to 11 in my ranking were pretty close

[rocque]

I'll think about a list, but I have 1 quick point to make, why so much love for Hulk? Unless I'm mistaken, he was out qualified 3-0 by Bearman, out scored 1 point to 0, and the race people are saying he had had a mare, at least he wasn't disqualified!

Yeah, and Bearman was slower than Hulkenberg in every race, but nobody mentions that. Stroll finished 5 qualis higher than Alonso, does it mean anything? Is Alonso done with F1 because of that? He has got his chance against Ocon, my feeling is that with a rookie things can change quite quickly, and so far we have seen mostly his bright side (Hulk's poor weekends helped a lot). Plenty to prove.

 

crazy recency bias (of the last race, ironically his second season half was actually pretty bad, that's the upside of a midfield car, it goes under the radar). also Hulkenberg is traditionally overhyped in this forum, probably because he was unlucky in his career

I agree that some might be too generous, but no, he is not 'overhyped'.

 

The wonderboy of this forum was Perez - because he scored more points than Hulkenberg and Ocon in the same cars and had these so important podium finishes in midfield cars. He also was portrayed as that super-duper number two driver for Red Bull, much better than Hulkenberg in every aspect. Bottas was an another poor boy, a lot better than Hulkenberg too, and it wasn't the case that he underperformed a lot at Mercedes, just Hamilton was a GOAT.

The idea of his comeback was poked fun by many, it was 'such an uninspiring choice' and injustice that he replaced Schumacher, let alone beating Magnussen... no chance.

 

If I had written that 'Williams should take Hulkenberg instead of Sargeant' back then in 2022, this forum would have exploded...

Edited by rocque, 10 December 2024 - 19:23.

[Colbul1]

Aaargh! Hit the wrong button and deleted it all! Right, for the 2nd time here's my top 10 and it's just my opinion!

1. Verstappen - to be fair, no one else really came close.
2. Norris - close with Charles, but when it came down to it he usually won out when directly battling Charles and was the only driver Max felt he had to go the extra mile against.
3. Leclerc - a toss up for 2nd and could be brilliant like Monza, but there were times when he didn't look unbeatable.
4. Sainz - excellent season overall, Mexico was a highlight, but often Charles was a step up.
5. Russell - when he's on it he's brilliant and fast, Spa and Vegas show that, but other races results went begging like Abu Dhabi.
6. Piastri - Oscar is good enough to beat everyone on his day and his wheel to wheel racing is top notch. He just had too many races where is pace just disappeared.
7. Hamilton - when he's on it he's still one of the best and a master at the wheel, but as this season has shown, when he's not, he's nowhere like in Brazil.
8. Gasly - as the end of the season has shown, in a good car Pierre can mix it with the best.
9. Alonso - not his best season by far, but when he had the car under him he was as strong a racer as ever.
10. Tsunoda - when the car was good he scored well and when it wasn't he could sometimes drag it into the points. Plus he beat 2 well rated team mates.

Next season though I expect the speed and skills of Antonelli and Bearman to be pushing to get onto the list!

Edited by Colbul1, 10 December 2024 - 20:48.

[Anderis]

This is how I voted in Atlas Voting Championship this year (check out here if you don't know what that is about --> https://forums.autos...rcs-bets-games/ ).

 

This is not necessarily an ideal reflection of what my ranking for 2024 would be, because for each race I could only give 3, 2, 1 or 0 points and I only had maximum of 12 points per race- which means bad races weren't punished and sometimes I couldn't reward all of the drivers properly because I ran out of points. Also the narrow scale made it impossible for more nuanced rating and sometimes drivers who were "kinda good" and "very good" both got 1 point, for example, and on another occasion an equally "kinda good" drive got 0 points because there were more drivers with stand-out drives who took all the points. Nonetheless, this is how many points each driver has received from me this year, just for fun:
 

1	Verstappen	35
2	Norris	        29
3	Leclerc	        26
4	Russell	        22
5	Sainz	        18
5	Hulkenberg	18
7	Alonso	        15
7	Gasly	        15
9	Piastri	        14
10	Hamilton	13
10	Tsunoda	        13
12	Albon	         8
13	Ocon	         7
14	Bottas	         6
15	Zhou	         5
15	Stroll	         5
15	Magnussen	 5
18	Perez	         4
18	Ricciardo	 4
20	Colapinto	 3
21	Bearman	         2
21	Lawson	         2

Edited by Anderis, 10 December 2024 - 20:55.

[vlado]

[santori]

1. Verstappen

2. Norris

3. Leclerc

4. Sainz

5. Russell

 

The next five would include Hamilton, Alonso, and Gasly but I haven't been paying close enough attention to really say. Piastri would be near the bottom of the top ten, but the margins are tiny. Hulkenberg would probably round out the list. For neatness sake:

 

6. Hamilton

7. Alonso

8. Gasly

9. Piastri

10. Hulkenberg

Edited by santori, 10 December 2024 - 22:17.

[Ali623]

How did the model figure out "car performance"? The article wasn't particularly clear.

Car performance is derived from the driver ‘ratings’. The Haas is rated so highly because the model rates Hulkenberg as an average driver therefore the Haas was very strong and Magnussen ends up as the lowest ranked driver of the season as he was dominated by Hulkenberg.

Is how I understand it anyway.

[sladealonso]

My two cents:

1. Verstappen

2. Leclerc

3. Russell

4. Norris

 

Gap

5. Sainz

 

Gap

6. Alonso

7. Hamilton

8. Piastri

9. Gasly

10. Hulkenberg

[PlatenGlass]

I meant to do this earlier.

 

1. Verstappen

2. Leclerc

3. Russell

4. Norris

5. Sainz

6. Hamilton

 

In the premature thread about Button's rankings I had Leclerc and Russell equal, but that arguments presented there plus that final race made me put Leclerc ahead. I think Hamilton has done enough for the 6th place despite some poor qualifyings, and he's still a very good racer. I'm fairly happy about this six. After that it gets harder.

 

Piastri has been very inconsistent while performing well at times. I could put him 7th, but I'm also mindful of the "coincidence" that happens every year when people's top drivers reflect the cars they are in. Alonso has been prone to disappearing too. Hulkenberg was impressing people at the start of the season but perhaps faded off and then started getting talked about at the end. Gasly seems to have impressed some people too and Bottas with his performances over Zhou (the renowned all-time great of course). I think I'll just leave it as it is rather than having an exact top 10.

 

Perez obviously massively bucks the trend of top car = good ranking. It would be impossible to put him anywhere other than near the bottom. However, I don't think that means he's suddenly become a bad driver. Stick him somewhere else and he might start driving well again. Gasly and Albon also did not keep their heads above water at Red Bull, and it's quite likely that there's a lot of other fairly highly rated drivers that would be condemned to the same fate if they joined the team.

[Vesuvius]

1.Verstappen
2.Leclerc
3.Russell
4.Norris
5.Sainz
6.Piastri
7.Hulkenberg
8.Hamilton
9.Gasly
10.Tsunoda
11.Alonso
12.Ocon
13.Bottas
14.Albon
15.Bearman
16.Magnussen
17.Lawson
18.Ricciardo
19.Colapinto
20.Stroll
21.Zhou
22.Perez
23.Sargeant
24.Doohan

[tyker]

01. Verstappen

02. Leclerc

03. Norris

04. Russell

05. Sainz

06. Alonso

07. Hamilton

08. Piastri

09. Gasly

10. Hulkenberg

11. Ocon

12. Bottas

13. Tsunoda

14. Albon

15. Lawson

16. Ricciardo

17. Colapinto

18. Magnussen

19. Perez

20. Stroll

21. Zhou

22. Sargeant