52 replies to this topic

[Anja]

With a new (again) WRC points system confirmed I suppose it's time for a new season thread! After much criticism WRC decided to drop the convoluted points splitting after just one season and returns to awarding full points based on final classification - with additional points awarded for Sunday results and the Power Stage. Not perfect but definitely an improvement if you ask me.

 

Sharper focus on rally wins with 2025 WRC points update

[Muppetmad]

"Less bad" seems to be the best we can hope for these days, so I'll take it.

[Stephane]

That's a bit more logical than this year.

[ArnageWRC]

"Less bad" seems to be the best we can hope for these days, so I'll take it.

 

Yeah; It's a damning indictment on the sport, and those running it that this is the best we can ever hope for..........

[noikeee]

Points for Sunday. Sigh. I guess it's "less bad" but not entirely sure it's going to re-spark my interest for this.

Are Rovanpera, Ogier doing full seasons this year? Having previous champions deciding they couldn't be arsed to do the whole thing but still showing up once in a while and winning, made 2024 often feel even more like a joke. Although from what I've understood Ogier then tried to do full time and failed, I think, I just didn't follow 2024 very closely

[Anja]

Rovanpera is back to doing a full season, Ogier is not. 

[ArnageWRC]

Points for Sunday. Sigh. I guess it's "less bad" but not entirely sure it's going to re-spark my interest for this.

 

So, now 'only' 3 sets of points; making 3 'mini events'........So Sunday, Power Stage, and Overall points; with a maximum of 35 on offer. 

 

It's all 'fiddling, whilst Rome burns'........

[Stephane]

well, they also presentend 2027 rules. we'll see how that goes with more freedom and sort of a BoP. It worked well for WEC.

[Vielleicht]

I think the 2027 proposals are very interesting, and a practical response to the challenges of the today and the coming decade. 

 

It is not clear which powertrains are going to be most attractive to car manufacturers in five or ten years time. It also will be different for different manufacturers in different regions at different times. This becomes difficult when deciding on a powertrain concept.

 

They could decide on one of them and bet the championship's health on it being a good choice, or they could propose a performance balanced platform that is more flexible in the hope that it can handle the uncertainty of transitions. 

 

I hope it works, because I think it could be a good technical model beyond rallying. 

[ArnageWRC]

well, they also presented 2027 rules. we'll see how that goes with more freedom and sort of a BoP. It worked well for WEC.

 

I'm not convinced there's enough manufacturers out there interested in the WRC; we're not going to see loads signing up like in the WEC. 

[Myrvold]

Points for Sunday. Sigh. I guess it's "less bad" but not entirely sure it's going to re-spark my interest for this.

Are Rovanpera, Ogier doing full seasons this year? Having previous champions deciding they couldn't be arsed to do the whole thing but still showing up once in a while and winning, made 2024 often feel even more like a joke. Although from what I've understood Ogier then tried to do full time and failed, I think, I just didn't follow 2024 very closely

 

I struggle to see the part-time drivers as an issue. It was 10-15 years where it wasn't the norm, but other than that, it is how WRC have always been. Ogier will never do a full season again, it was easy to see that he was not happy about having to do the last 3-4 rallies of this year either.

I am happy that the rally win actually matters again in 2025.

[Stephane]

I'm not convinced there's enough manufacturers out there interested in the WRC; we're not going to see loads signing up like in the WEC. 

 

Let me hope, please

[ArnageWRC]

Some of next years FiA Rally calendars:

 

FIA World Rally Championship (approved by the WMSC on 31 July 2024)   

   

26 January Monaco Rallye Monte-Carlo

16 February Sweden Rally Sweden (Jun.)

23 March Kenya Safari Rally Kenya

27 April Spain Rally Islas Canarias

18 May Portugal Vodafone Rally de Portugal (Jun.)

08 June Italy Rally Italia Sardegna

29 June Greece Acropolis Rally Greece (Jun.)

20 July Estonia Rally Estonia

03 August Finland Rally Finland (Jun.)

31 August Paraguay Rally Paraguay

14 September Chile Rally Chile

19 October Austria / Czech Republic / Germany Central European Rally (Jun.)

09 November Japan FORUM8 Rally Japan

30 November Saudi Arabia Rally Saudi Arabia

Jun.: Event counting towards the Junior WRC

 

 

 

FIA European Rally Championship (approved by the WMSC on 18 November 2024)      

 

04-06 April Spain 42 Rally Sierra Morena (Jun.)

09-11 May Hungary Rally Hungary (Jun.)

30 May -01 June Sweden Bauhaus Royal Rally of Scandinavia

13-15 June Poland 81st Rally Poland (Jun.)

04-06 July Italy Rally di Roma Capitale (Jun.)

15-17 August Czech Republic Barum Czech Rally Zlin (Jun.)

05-07 September Great Britain Rali Ceredigion

03-05 October Croatia Croatia Rally (Jun.)

Jun.: Event counting towards the Junior ERC

 

FIA European Historic Rally Championship (approved by the WMSC on 11 December 2024)

 

 13-15 March Spain Rally Costa Brava

25-26 April Czech Republic Historic Vltava Rally

16-18 May France Rallye Antibes Historic

27-28 June Belgium Ardeca Ypres Historic Rally

17-19 July Austria Historic Rally Weiz

15-16 August Finland Lahti Historic Rally

05-06 September Greece Acropolis Historic Rally

25-27 September Italy Rally Elba Storico

17-18 October Spain Historic Rally of Asturias

07-08 November Portugal Historic Rally Fafe

 

 

FIA World Rally-Raid Championship (approved by the WMSC on 2 October 2024)      

 

03-17 January Saudi Arabia Dakar

21-27 February UAE Abu Dhabi Desert Challenge

18-24 May South Africa South African Safari Rally

22-28 September Portugal BP Ultimate Rally-Raid

10-17 October Morocco Rallye du Maroc      

Edited by ArnageWRC, 12 December 2024 - 15:37.

[Anja]

I'm not convinced there's enough manufacturers out there interested in the WRC; we're not going to see loads signing up like in the WEC. 

 

They should've just made WRC2 regs into the top class and we get Skoda and Citroen, five brands would be plenty. I suspect they'll be forced to do that sooner or later once the new rules fail to attract new entrants.

(not to mention it would make it much easier for all kinds of privateers and local heroes to actually compete against the best in WRC events)

Edited by Anja, 13 December 2024 - 14:16.

[Stephane]

We had this with S2000, R5, now rally2.

I guess manufacturers just don't want privateers to win

[Anja]

We had this with S2000, R5, now rally2.

I guess manufacturers just don't want privateers to win

 

It's gonna be fun when Hyundai pulls out and all we're left with is the might of Toyota vs M-Sport "barely there" Ford. Dark days of WEC vibes...

Edited by Anja, 13 December 2024 - 14:29.

[Myrvold]

It's gonna be fun when Hyundai pulls out and all we're left with is the might of Toyota vs M-Sport "barely there" Ford. Dark days of WEC vibes...

Or the Citroën - M-Sport days, with a cameo from a surprisingly competitive Prodrive MINI

[BRG]

They should've just made WRC2 regs into the top class and we get Skoda and Citroen, five brands would be plenty. I suspect they'll be forced to do that sooner or later once the new rules fail to attract new entrants.

(not to mention it would make it much easier for all kinds of privateers and local heroes to actually compete against the best in WRC events)

If Neuville is to be believed, they may have just done that by accident!

 

https://www.motorspo...-cars/10681881/

[ArnageWRC]

Not much enthusiasm on here. Anyway, Rallye Monte-Carlo - SS1 starts in approx 5 mins.......

[Anja]

Ogier wins SS1, rally over 

 

I had a check on wikipedia and he didn't finish Monte lower than 2nd since 2013. Good lord. 

[Stephane]

Neuville almost out.

[Anja]

 

Tanak was pretty lucky not to be out too. 

[JRodrigues]

It has been a pretty fun (but unfortunately shorter) morning! Neuville, Tanak and Oiger with some off's.. Munster with a 2nd best stage time... Evans leading... Rovanpera also seems to be struggling a bit.. The afternoon looks promising!

[OvDrone]

I have to say that I'm starting to fall in love again with the WRC. Not the marketing and coverage, although that is slowly yet steadily improving. But last year, my favorite championship was the WRC with all the drama and Neuville finally clinching it.

Never would I think that I'd ever get emotional for an Ogier win, yet this was incredible. Seeing the emotions from him, taking a record 10th Monte Carlo win and dedicating it to his uncle, alluding to it being probably his last win here - man, that was poignant. 

Having such a rich roster of talents with champions Neuville, Tanak and Rovanpera on the grid. Evans could easily be champion as well, and perhaps one in waiting in Formaulx with an incredible first rally for Hyundai. And other young guns like Munster and Sesks, we are in a nice little era. Looking forward to the rest of the year as Monte Carlo delivered.

[Anja]

It's been a good rally, the battle for positions 2-5 swinging back and forth through most of the event and Ogier didn't exactly run away with it either. Nice to see Fourmaux competitive in a new team, maybe too early to say but it feels like he could get his first win this year. 

Edited by Anja, 26 January 2025 - 12:42.

[BRG]

Disgraceful lack of spectator control on first night stages.   Fireworks going off and idiots running down the road behind the cars, carrying flares.  Makes the worst excesses of the Group B era look rather less awful.  I am surprised the FIA haven't clamped down on this, it is not the first time it has happened on the Monte.

 

I am all in favour of people enjoying themselves and being super enthusiastic but it is just one small step from a fatal accident and bye-bye Monte.

[OvDrone]

Maybe they were verbally polite. If they would be swearing, then we know the FIA would care.

[Myrvold]

Disgraceful lack of spectator control on first night stages.   Fireworks going off and idiots running down the road behind the cars, carrying flares.  Makes the worst excesses of the Group B era look rather less awful.  I am surprised the FIA haven't clamped down on this, it is not the first time it has happened on the Monte.

 

I am all in favour of people enjoying themselves and being super enthusiastic but it is just one small step from a fatal accident and bye-bye Monte.

 

They did stop the stage after 13 cars had started though.

[Rob G]

I was all set and excited to watch the rally on Red Bull TV last night, only to discover that it's geoblocked and no longer available in the US. I'd have to pay for yet another subscription so I can watch it on Rally TV or DAZN. Screw that.

[BRG]

They did stop the stage after 13 cars had started though.

Was that for spectator issues?   The three Thursday night stages were the bad ones.  

 

You can run down a live stage carrying flares but do a little drift round Station (Loews, Fairmont, Whatever) Hairpin to play to the fans and you get fined.  Skewed values, as usual.  Why does that not surprise me!

[ArnageWRC]

I was all set and excited to watch the rally on Red Bull TV last night, only to discover that it's geoblocked and no longer available in the US. I'd have to pay for yet another subscription so I can watch it on Rally TV or DAZN. Screw that.

All the while the Rolex 24 was streamed free on You Tube worldwide, and got record numbers...........

 

The WRC isn't growing behind a paywall, and until they realise this, it'll stay stagnant.

[pacificquay]

Still no UK rally on the WRC calendar.

 

A world championship without a British round isn't worthy of the name.

[BRG]

Yes but it isn't the WRC's fault that we can't get our act together.

 

Also a WRC without a Belgian round isn't worthy of the name either and poor little Belgium only ever got a look in the once, whereas we were a fixture for decades.

[Anja]

I was watching a lot of 90s/00s season reviews in the off-season and I do have to say of all the past rallies I miss UK the most. One of the more iconic WRC events if you ask me. 

Edited by Anja, 28 January 2025 - 12:07.

[ArnageWRC]

Still no UK rally on the WRC calendar.

 

A world championship without a British round isn't worthy of the name.

 

And there won't be for a long time; the WRC Promoters want silly money for hosting a WRC event; and currently, the WRC isn't worth it. The Welsh backed it for 15+ years, and couldn't be expected to keep pumping money into a niche sport. And in that time, the sport's profile fell off a cliff in the UK, so nobody else wants to provide funding/ or sponsor it.

[Myrvold]

Was that for spectator issues?   The three Thursday night stages were the bad ones.  

 

You can run down a live stage carrying flares but do a little drift round Station (Loews, Fairmont, Whatever) Hairpin to play to the fans and you get fined.  Skewed values, as usual.  Why does that not surprise me!

 

Spectator-issues on Thursday, yes.

 

I also guess you know why there is a penalty for drifting on open, public roads...

 

I was watching a lot of 90s/00s season reviews in the off-season and I do have to say of all the past rallies I miss UK the most. One of the more iconic WRC events if you ask me. 

 

Did you also come to the realization that there were quite a few "golden years" in the 90's with very few cars? Like, 3-4 full-time drivers and 6-7 manufacturer cars (where one season, almost half of the rallies, the 2nd car in a team used a Group N, not Group A car)?

[Anja]

Did you also come to the realization that there were quite a few "golden years" in the 90's with very few cars? Like, 3-4 full-time drivers and 6-7 manufacturer cars (where one season, almost half of the rallies, the 2nd car in a team used a Group N, not Group A car)?

 

That I already knew just from looking at wikipedia. Did I ever argue otherwise?

[OvDrone]

I'm also watching 90s/00s to around 2011 WRC reviews right now, Anja!

It actually helped with starting to see this current grid as a little smaller 'golden' era, especially compared to the post 2003 era and Loeb's rise.

[Anja]

Hah, I actually stopped at 2012. The turn of the century was probably the peak, but watching such a condensed summary of that time you can really tell how quickly it fell apart in the mid-00s. There were still some good seasons in the second part of the decade, Loeb had some proper competition but it's like something was missing. And then we got the VW steamroller...

Edited by Anja, 28 January 2025 - 19:48.

[Myrvold]

That I already knew just from looking at wikipedia. Did I ever argue otherwise?

 

Wasn't meant as an accusation of something, more like a "this wasn't as amazing as I remembered it, and how it's talked about" that made me go a bit "wow" when I first realized it.

[Stephane]

WRC cars weren't invented for no reason, yep.

[Muppetmad]

Perhaps it's just because I was fairly young at the time, but easily one of my most unusually vivid memories of motorsport is the 2003 Monte Carlo rally. Loeb had already won a rally in 2002, of course, but seeing him take such a commanding win over McRae and Sainz made such a big impression on me. It was like I could feel that the guard was changing.

[Jvr]

Arctic Lapland Rally is underway. I'm a bit surprised that Rovanperä is the only WRC driver participating and testing the new Hankook winter tyres in preparation for Rally Sweden. And his comments about those have been very critical: on fresh soft snow they were slower than Rally2 cars since according to Rovanperä the tyre does bite through the snow layer. Today he's faster but tells they are wearing down very quickly.  

[ArnageWRC]

Perhaps it's just because I was fairly young at the time, but easily one of my most unusually vivid memories of motorsport is the 2003 Monte Carlo rally. Loeb had already won a rally in 2002, of course, but seeing him take such a commanding win over McRae and Sainz made such a big impression on me. It was like I could feel that the guard was changing.

 

The 2003 WRC season was one of the last seasons of genuine multi manufacturer competition in the WRCar era; Subaru, Peugeot, Citroen, Ford, and plenty of drivers all winning/ being competitive. By the end of 2005 the wheels were beginning to fall off.....from 1997-2003/4 it was a fabulous series.

Edited by ArnageWRC, 01 February 2025 - 10:22.

[Anja]

Jos Verstappen will be doing a full ERC campaign this season, should be interesting to see how the step up goes: https://dirtfish.com...e-erc-for-2025/

[BRG]

I guess time isn't on his side at 52 yo, but this is an ambitious step.  He has limited experience on gravel which will make the ERC a bit tougher for him although he did well when he did a forest event in Wales.  He won the Belgian Master's Cup in 2024 and should be a real contender for the main Belgian championship.

 

Much as I do not like him as a person, I respect his efforts in building a new career in rallying in his later years and he has done very well at it too.  Maybe Max will follow in his foot-steps one day!

[BRG]

Arctic Lapland Rally is underway. I'm a bit surprised that Rovanperä is the only WRC driver participating 

Using his Rally1 car when all the rest are in lesser vehicles was a bit like taking a gun to a knife-fight, but I see he dropped some 40 seconds on the final stage and only came 2nd (presumably deliberately).  Or those Hankook tyres really aren't up to much!

 

WR Champion Neuville is in action at home on the Legends Bastogne rally where he is competing on equal terms with the rest using a BMW M3 and is currently lying 2nd.

[Jvr]

Using his Rally1 car when all the rest are in lesser vehicles was a bit like taking a gun to a knife-fight, but I see he dropped some 40 seconds on the final stage and only came 2nd (presumably deliberately).  Or those Hankook tyres really aren't up to much!

 

WR Champion Neuville is in action at home on the Legends Bastogne rally where he is competing on equal terms with the rest using a BMW M3 and is currently lying 2nd.

According to Rovanperä it started to snow heavily during the final stage and the Hankooks were not working at all. He said it felt like driving with summertime tyres.

But to be honest, the Rally2 cars could use much longer studs that Rovanperä had not available. Most definitely it seems that the Hankook winter tyre is not optimal in soft snow conditions.

[BRG]

Not the best weekend for the WRC stars then.  Neuville only managed 6th in Bastogne.

[JRodrigues]

Also, had to avoid a spectator and hit a bank!

 

https://x.com/Rallye...zwOxXWmJDQ&s=19