44 replies to this topic

[SophieB]

@FIA

The FIA World Motor Sport Council has approved a refined version of the 2026 FIA Formula 1 concept. 

 

link to Twitter post: https://x.com/fia/st...4320862337?s=61

 

 

 

(Apologies if there’s an existing thread - I looked but found nothing. If it turns out there is, I will merge the threads)

[Mark A]

Not a great start when even the FIA concept has a bunch of over the top aero vanes just in front of the sidepods, will only ever get more extreme once the teams start.

[aray]

Which parts are going to be 'movable'?

[PayasYouRace]

I couldn’t tell you just from looking at it what they’ve changed. Still looks tidy and like an F1 car would look, except for the wide nose which looks a bit junior formula.

[Stoffel]

Preferred the previous iteration of the rear-wing, that one looked a bit more old school 00'.

[le chat noir]

Looks fast fat

[cyclist]

I have tended to get used to whatever comes around (except perhaps the 2012 nose jobs and the penis noses). I hardly even notice the halo anymore for instance.

 

As for this, I don't like the fat nose, I think it looks rather slow. Then again the previous show car also looked a lot fatter than the actual cars so we shall see.

 

I do like the fact that they are more compact though, even if they are still way too heavy. Just look at the nimble early 2000 cars and how lively they look on the track. Even if the new cars are faster they are rather boring to see them go fast.

Edited by cyclist, 12 December 2024 - 10:08.

[GunnarN7]

If they worry so much about cornering speeds they should think about losing even more weight, relying too much on aero for that sort of thing tends to end up badly for racing. These cars will be more nimble (still too heavy so not a game changer) but if a lot of that weight loss comes from making the wheels smaller then they're going to be sacrificing a lot of mechanical grip as well.

 

I think it's going to be more of the same, if anything I'm more interested in seeing how the Manual Override thing will play out.

[DevilDare]

Looks quite basic in my opinion.. like an evolution of the F2 car. The FIA renders are always quite conservative though so hoping the real cars will look better.

[Gravelngrass]

That front wing looks great for slashing tyres! Looking forward to on-track fights being cut short!

[le chat noir]

If they worry so much about cornering speeds they should think about losing even more weight, relying too much on aero for that sort of thing tends to end up badly for racing. These cars will be more nimble (still too heavy so not a game changer) but if a lot of that weight loss comes from making the wheels smaller then they're going to be sacrificing a lot of mechanical grip as well.

 

I think it's going to be more of the same, if anything I'm more interested in seeing how the Manual Override thing will play out.

 

The top teams get their speed on the straights. Building the cars to be fast through the corners? How could you make that safe? And also build the car for combat?

[frosty125]

Which parts are going to be 'movable'?

Just the front and rear wings it’s basically just adding DRS to the front wing and you can you use it whenever you want. So it’s not dynamic active aero just two binary x and y modes.

[Wuzak]

Not a great start when even the FIA concept has a bunch of over the top aero vanes just in front of the sidepods, will only ever get more extreme once the teams start.

 

The aero vane is there to prevent teams using outwash, which is seen as one of the reasosns cars cannot follow as well now as they could in 2022.

[Wuzak]

That front wing looks great for slashing tyres! Looking forward to on-track fights being cut short!

 

Agreed, and very ugly.

[MRX94]

I must say I actually like the front wing design, probably the first I've liked since 2008. Worth noting that the FIA designs always look very basic (hence they often get compared to lower formula cars), the actual cars will look much more refined than this.

But yeah, for these aero rules to succeed we need to see if the FIA has managed to defeat the engineers and their dreaded outwash effect, and force the cars to "eat" their own dirty air, essentially.

[Gravelngrass]

I must say I actually like the front wing design, probably the first I've liked since 2008. Worth noting that the FIA designs always look very basic (hence they often get compared to lower formula cars), the actual cars will look much more refined than this.

But yeah, for these aero rules to succeed we need to see if the FIA has managed to defeat the engineers and their dreaded outwash effect, and force the cars to "eat" their own dirty air, essentially.

They had beat them in 2022…

[FullThrottleF1]

How do we bring down weight of F1 cars?

[jAnO76]

How do we bring down weight of F1 cars?

Smaller wheels, no batteries, refueling, Asian drivers.

[FullThrottleF1]

Honesty - bring refueling back. I know, unpopular opinion

[Anderis]

Smaller wheels, no batteries, refueling, Asian drivers.

Refueling wouldn't do much to bring down the weight. When we went from refueling to no refueling in 2010, the minimum weight of the cars was raised just by 15kg and today's cars are more fuel efficient than those of late 2000's.

[FullThrottleF1]

Refueling wouldn't do much to bring down the weight. When we went from refueling to no refueling in 2010, the minimum weight of the cars was raised just by 15kg and today's cars are more fuel efficient than those of late 2000's.

It would make them shorter though 

[Boing Ball]

Refueling wouldn't do much to bring down the weight. When we went from refueling to no refueling in 2010, the minimum weight of the cars was raised just by 15kg and today's cars are more fuel efficient than those of late 2000's.

Banning refueling did not raise the minimum weight, AFAIK.

[Boing Ball]

It would make them shorter though 

The fuel tanks (nor the engines) are not the reason why the cars are long

[TecnoRacing]

While I wish they were gone altogether, it's a nice surprise the wheels cover design have been modified, leaving the center section more open and the rim partially visible. They also appear flat compared to the current convex design - so the the trash bin lid look has been much reduced.

 

Original 2026 render (showing ~current style wheel covers)

 

Updated Render

Edited by TecnoRacing, 12 December 2024 - 21:08.

[Gravelngrass]

Refueling wouldn't do much to bring down the weight. When we went from refueling to no refueling in 2010, the minimum weight of the cars was raised just by 15kg and today's cars are more fuel efficient than those of late 2000's.

Yep, I don’t really understand the people that want better racing and refueling back. If it was a time trial, I’d understand, but if you want cars actually racing on a track, it makes no sense at all.

[Ali_G]

Looks like a junior formula car.

And the return to struts linking the wing to the nose. Why in gods name is that back. It’s hideous.

[Grippy]

Looks like a junior formula car.

And the return to struts linking the wing to the nose. Why in gods name is that back. It’s hideous.

DRS mechaism? (adustable aero). Maybe.

[Wuzak]

The fuel tanks (nor the engines) are not the reason why the cars are long

 

The fuel tank aen't that much bigger than those of the V10 refuelling era.

[Wes350]

ROTFL...

 

They are going with a CART/CHAMP car style underfloor concept, that they should have started with in 2022.

 

Everything about this 26 car should have been done in 2022...

 

The FIA botched their ground effect formula from the beginning.

 

In fact, the concept of the 2026 regs are essentially exactly what CHAMP car was trying to do 17 years ago with the PANOZ DP01:

 

 

The more things change, the more they stay the same...

 

 

 

How do we bring down weight of F1 cars?

 

Get rid of the heavy hybrid components, or require the ICE+KERS+Battery hybrid engines to come in at the same 95 kilos as the old V8's.

 

All the weight added to the cars post KERs in 2010 (Halo excepted), is a direct result of the additional weight from the hybrid powertrains. 

 

There's no functional reason we cannot go back to 600-620 kilo cars...

[Wuzak]

Get rid of the heavy hybrid components, or require the ICE+KERS+Battery hybrid engines to come in at the same 95 kilos as the old V8's.

 

Cars gained 100kg, without changing the PU, since 2014.

[loki]

Which parts are going to be 'movable'?

Whichever parts Colapinto hits the wall with…

[vlado]

ROTFL...

 

They are going with a CART/CHAMP car style underfloor concept, that they should have started with in 2022.

 

Everything about this 26 car should have been done in 2022...

 

 

2022 ruleset was working alright up until the mid season TD and whatever else they did for 2023 ... at least it looked like they were able to follow each other closer

[Wuzak]

They had to do something to reduce drag - by a lot - because of the reduction in power for the 2026 PUs.

[Wes350]

Cars gained 100kg, without changing the PU, since 2014.

 

You are 100% correct. I ran my mouth before thinking it through.

 

2014-2016 was the first bloat. Driven by the PU weight.

 

2017+ They just kept making the cars physically bigger for no discernable reason.

 

We could still go down to a smaller car in the 600-620 kilo range. But curbing the excess hybrid PU weight would have to be part of that, along with going back to a physically smaller car.

 

 

 

2022 ruleset was working alright up until the mid season TD and whatever else they did for 2023 ... at least it looked like they were able to follow each other closer

 

Here is a good Youtube video explaining how the regulations themselves induced the issues that all the teams have struggled with:

 

How Porpoising was caused by the 2022 F1 Rules

 

 

They were crap regulations.

 

The 2026 car floor concept will be much easier for the teams to wrap their head around.

 

 

I'd also expect interesting things from the drivers as they will be able to run rake on these 2026 cars.

 

Some drivers will really like how that change plays into their preferred driving style.

Edited by Wes350, 13 December 2024 - 05:45.

[Wuzak]

We could still go down to a smaller car in the 600-620 kilo range. But curbing the excess hybrid PU weight would have to be part of that, along with going back to a physically smaller car.

 

Doubtful.

 

You'd have to get rid of the Halo, the side intrusion bars, lower the front and rear impact tests and ditch 18" wheels (the FIA  wanted to go to smaller sizes, but this was not allowed).

[Wes350]

Doubtful.

 

You'd have to get rid of the Halo, the side intrusion bars, lower the front and rear impact tests and ditch 18" wheels (the FIA  wanted to go to smaller sizes, but this was not allowed).

 

The 2007-2013 era cars were not unsafe.

 

All of Pre-halo F1 was measurably safer than MotoGP.

 

All the 'bulking up' for safety since has been to account for the increased weight and impacts of the heavier cars.

 

It's possible. It's just a matter of going to a smaller car, and ditching overly heavy PU's.

 

In fairness they did not have the halo back then, and ditching it is clearly a non-starter. I believe the halo weighs 7-9 kilos;so let's call it a 630 Kilo car, I'll take it.

[SwedeForceOne]

Smaller wheels, no batteries, refueling, Asian drivers.

 

😅👍

[MRX94]

The 2007-2013 era cars were not unsafe.

All of Pre-halo F1 was measurably safer than MotoGP.

All the 'bulking up' for safety since has been to account for the increased weight and impacts of the heavier cars.

It's possible. It's just a matter of going to a smaller car, and ditching overly heavy PU's.

In fairness they did not have the halo back then, and ditching it is clearly a non-starter. I believe the halo weighs 7-9 kilos;so let's call it a 630 Kilo car, I'll take it.

The thing with safety is that it's kind of like inflation. Once the prices have gone up, they are unlikely to go back down to what they were before.

I can't ever see the FIA loosening the requirements for passing safety tests, it's something that will only get stricter and stricter over time. Nobody wants to tell the drivers "hey, we're going to increase the chances of you dying because fans want lighter cars".

Making the cars smaller runs into a similar issue, because if they are smaller they need bulkier, heavier elements to maintain the same level of safety. Probably the best bet would be for rules to stipulate the length of some of the transmission parts, which are very elongated nowadays to increase floor area. This should limit the length of cars without impacting safety.

[kumo7]

dunno what is the reg and whan not. 

 

But the nose,... is too fat.

I can hardly imagine the teams will do the car which is shown in the photograph. 

[Wuzak]

Looks like a junior formula car.

And the return to struts linking the wing to the nose. Why in gods name is that back. It’s hideous.

 

They need a place to actuate the front wing.

[Wuzak]

The nose has to be within a reference volume. The renders are probably close to teh maximum width.

 

The nose could be narrowed on the actual cars, depending on whether crash tests are met and there is enough space for the front wing actuation mechanism.

[Ali_G]

They need a place to actuate the front wing.

Surely that would be easier with the wing directly connected to the nose cone. Actuators could be located in the nose cone.

[Wes350]

The thing with safety is that it's kind of like inflation. Once the prices have gone up, they are unlikely to go back down to what they were before.

I can't ever see the FIA loosening the requirements for passing safety tests, it's something that will only get stricter and stricter over time. Nobody wants to tell the drivers "hey, we're going to increase the chances of you dying because fans want lighter cars".

Making the cars smaller runs into a similar issue, because if they are smaller they need bulkier, heavier elements to maintain the same level of safety. Probably the best bet would be for rules to stipulate the length of some of the transmission parts, which are very elongated nowadays to increase floor area. This should limit the length of cars without impacting safety.

 

I get what you're saying.

 

Except it wouldn't be a reduction in safety, because the lighter cars were not unsafe.

 

The requirements were raised in order to compensated for the increased impact mass of the heavier cars. The FIA would just be bringing them back in-line with the lesser impact mass of the lighter cars.

 

But yes, I can see some ignorant reporter making an issue of it, and the FIA unwilling to budge because of a perception of "backtracking"...

[kumo7]

They need a place to actuate the front wing.

Do we know already if these actuation systems are gradual or on/off like DRS?

[MRX94]

Do we know already if these actuation systems are gradual or on/off like DRS?

On/off like DRS.
Which is a slight shame, road cars already have adaptive aero, it'd be pretty cool to see the wings constantly moving, but it's understandable why they want to keep it simple.