8 replies to this topic

[tsrwright]

I found the following on the French Wikipedia:

 

Le 29 avril 1899, une course de vitesse est organisée par la revue La France automobile sur la route centrale du parc agricole d'Achères, une piste de 2 km de long. Elle oppose la Jamais Contente, pilotée par Camille Jenatzy, à une Jeantaud au volant de laquelle se trouve de Chasseloup-Laubat. La Jamais Contente est alors la première voiture à franchir la barre symbolique des 100 km/h. Lors de la troisième manche, elle parcourt le premier kilomètre de piste en 34 secondes, atteignant ainsi la vitesse record de 105,879 km/h5,9, pulvérisant ainsi le record du comte de Chasseloup-Laubat qui était de 92,78 km/h en date du 4 mars 1899.

 

Note that the definite article before the car name is not in italics not does it normally have an italic initial letter.

 

In English, do you think the car is correctly called Never Content or The Never Content?

 

Most English sources have the definite article but I have deliberately not used it in a book I have recently published. You see the ship Queen Mary was not referred to as The Queen Mary. It's name was Queen Mary but although it is referred to as the Queen Mary I believe that doesn't make the part of the name.

 

What do other pedants think?

 

Is there a grammarian out there who can comment?

Edited by tsrwright, Yesterday, 05:50.

[robert dick]

Jenatzy christened his car "La Jamais Contente".
In French language la "Jamais Contente" was/is used in order to avoid la "La Jamais Contente".

The Autocar/London, 6 May 1899:
"The car which Jenatzy was riding was the famous 'Jamais Contente,' an appropriate name certainly for a record vehicle, which is never satisfied with its performances, but is always anxious to go one better. [...] The car is painted a greyish blue with her name, 'La Jamais Contente,' near the bow."

Photo from the Jules Beau collection/Bibliothèque Nationale, Paris,
taken during the Fête des Tuileries, a few weeks after the record run through the Parc d'Achères.
The name "La Jamais Contente" is painted in curved form:

 

[BRG]

Most English sources have the definite article but I have deliberately not used it in a book I have recently published. You see the ship Queen Mary was not referred to as The Queen Mary. It's name was Queen Mary but although it is referred to as the Queen Mary I believe that doesn't make the part of the name.

It is usual practice when referring to any ship to preface the name with "the" but I think this is not a rule, just that it is easier to say it that way.  You can perfectly correctly also say "I crossed the Atlantic on Queen Mary" but that might be open to a ribald and possibly treasonous misinterpretation which using "the" would avoid.

 

Whether the same thing applies in French is one for native speakers.  But if Jenatzy painted "La" on the car, that must count for something?

 

One thing I just learnt is that both Jenatzy and the vehicle were Belgian, not Frenc h as I always blithely assumed!

[Vitesse2]

Unless it actually says 'the' on the ship's hull, then the word 'the' should be in lower case. In the Queen Mary example the ship's official name was actually RMS Queen Mary (RMS = Royal Mail Steamer or Ship - only authorised/contracted vessels could carry His/Her Majesty's mails. Other powered vessels are prefixed SS.) Thread at StackExchange: https://english.stac...uns-such-as-the

 

 

Jenatzy was presumably just being contrary and/or asserting its uniqueness as - to continue the example - the names of French liners like France and Normandie did not include the definite article.

 

[Pullman99]

Continuing the maritime theme, in the 1980s I was involved with the promotion of the Victorian warship HMS Warrior in Portsmouth.   The Royal Navy, in documents, generally used upper case letters for both the prefix "HMS" and the ship's name but the use of italics for the ship's name - but never the prefix - was also acceptable.   So, if Camille Jenatzy incorporated the definitive article "La" in the car's name then, presumably, we should follow suit.   I think that I have always written the car's name in this form and, as Robert has indicated, this avoids the nomenclature issue in French.

 

(Photo: National Museum of the Royal Navy)

 

Best wishes Terry for your new book "Speed Monarch" BTW!  See link below:

 

https://loosefilling...loose-fillings/

Edited by Pullman99, Today, 11:37.

[BRG]

Thread at StackExchange: https://english.stac...uns-such-as-the

Having perused that thread, I wish nobody had ever raised the issue!!

[Doug Nye]

While lapsing into justifiable pedantry don't overlook the nautical preface 'MV' before a ship's name, indicating 'Motor Vessel' as distinct from 'SS' for 'Screw Steam' or just 'Steam Ship' according to different sources. An 'MV' was and remains most commonly diesel-powered.  Then insurance and commercial legalities developed 'MT' for 'Motor Tanker', demanding more stringent safety compliance, or indeed the more exclusive and high-falutin' 'RMS' for 'Royal Mail Ship'.  Less obvious was 'PS' for 'Paddle Steamer' or 'FV' for 'Fishing Vessel' and in more recent times 'NS' for 'Nuclear Ship', then 'LPG/C' for 'Liquefied Petroleum Gas Carrier' and of course 'ULCV' for 'Ultra-Large Container Vessel'.  There are dozens of such prefixes now current.

 

In terms of obscurity I feel peculiarly attracted to 'TSHD' - 'Trailing Suction Hopper Dredger'...    

 

DCN

[BRG]

 'Trailing Suction Hopper Dredger'...    

That more than adequately describes some of the less salubrious bits of the F1 media.  Especially the YouTube click-bait channels that I cannot manage to suppress.

[tsrwright]

As mentioned, The Autocar used the short form without La so I am in good company but I must acknowledge that the definite article is there in the name on the car.

 

So using The would seem to be correct.

 

Thanks for the feedback and interesting links.

 

TW