58 replies to this topic

[Viryfan]

Hadjar at RB is a done deal.
Worst kept secret at french motorsport governing body.
He was at Faenza today.

[Bleu]

Not confirmed yet, but I expect Hadjar to use #6 which would be the first number to be selected by three drivers.

[markeimas27]

Hadjar is going to be throughly thrashed by Tsunoda in 25. And there is no telling what Verstappen will do to Lawson. These are two F1 careers which will be over by the summer break.

 

I can't remember a driver less convincing than Hadjar being promoted to F1 in recent years. His FP1 at Silverstone this year was unbelievably poor. 

[JHSingo]

Hadjar is going to be throughly thrashed by Tsunoda in 25. And there is no telling what Verstappen will do to Lawson. These are two F1 careers which will be over by the summer break.

 

I can't remember a driver less convincing than Hadjar being promoted to F1 in recent years. His FP1 at Silverstone this year was unbelievably poor. 

 

Logan Sargeant? Zhou Guanyu? Nyck de Vries? Nikita Mazepin?

Hadjar finished second in F2 this year, but sure, rate his chances on a one off (and largely irrelevant) practice session. 

 

Pleased for the lad, he definitely deserves a shot. I think he'll surprise a few people next year. 

Edited by JHSingo, 20 December 2024 - 11:29.

[messy]

Hadjar is going to be throughly thrashed by Tsunoda in 25. And there is no telling what Verstappen will do to Lawson. These are two F1 careers which will be over by the summer break.
 
I can't remember a driver less convincing than Hadjar being promoted to F1 in recent years. His FP1 at Silverstone this year was unbelievably poor.

The nerves clearly got to him in that FP1. Previously I think he'd done one at Abu Dhabi in '23 and had impressed. Plus he's coming off the back of a really strong F2 season where he was arguably #1 and won four feature races, losing a fifth to absolute fluke in Monaco.

In short, disagree.

[DJH63]

Hadjar is going to be throughly thrashed by Tsunoda in 25. And there is no telling what Verstappen will do to Lawson. These are two F1 careers which will be over by the summer break.

 

I can't remember a driver less convincing than Hadjar being promoted to F1 in recent years. His FP1 at Silverstone this year was unbelievably poor. 

I actually have a sneaky suspicion Hadjar is in the RBR after the summer break.

[Anja]

Hadjar is going to be throughly thrashed by Tsunoda in 25. And there is no telling what Verstappen will do to Lawson. These are two F1 careers which will be over by the summer break.

 

I can't remember a driver less convincing than Hadjar being promoted to F1 in recent years. His FP1 at Silverstone this year was unbelievably poor. 

 

He was arguably the standout driver in a stacked F2 field this year and lost the title mostly due to bad luck (not just in the finale). If that's not deserving of an F1 shot, I don't know what is. 

Edited by Anja, 20 December 2024 - 13:30.

[Alfisti]

Hadjar was told very, very clearly, DO NOT BIN THE CAR before he went out for that FP1. He'll be fine. 

[GhostR]

Hadjar is going to be throughly thrashed by Tsunoda in 25. And there is no telling what Verstappen will do to Lawson. These are two F1 careers which will be over by the summer break.

 

I can't remember a driver less convincing than Hadjar being promoted to F1 in recent years. His FP1 at Silverstone this year was unbelievably poor. 

 

Disagree. I worry that he'll be inconsistent, but he's clearly earned this chance and has some talent. F2 this season proves it. Post-season Abu Dhabi testing proves it. A single FP1 session at Silverstone doesn't disprove it.

[Viryfan]

I think Isack has the intellectual capacity to deal with the complexity of F1.

I don't think he will be overwhelmed by what it takes to race in F1.

[jonpollak]

So many rush to judgment here ….
Let’s see how he does first before you bestow greatness or send him to the gallows.

As my avatar so rightfully said.

“Good or bad, we think we know
As if thinking makes things so
All convictions grow along a borderline”

Jp

[Analog]

Hadjar is fast and it will be interesting but I am fairly convinced it will end badly for Tsunoda.

Funny bonus: He sounds exactly like Tsunoda on the radio! Maybe not the voice itself, but the constant whining proving that he believe he is the only one in the team that matters. 

[aportinga]

Hadjar is going to be throughly thrashed by Tsunoda in 25. And there is no telling what Verstappen will do to Lawson. These are two F1 careers which will be over by the summer break.

 

I can't remember a driver less convincing than Hadjar being promoted to F1 in recent years. His FP1 at Silverstone this year was unbelievably poor. 

 

Agreed. One has to think that Yuki wants to prove RB wrong in their decision to promote Lawson. If he smashes Hadjar and Lawson gets stuffed, I'd have to think he gets his shot in 2026 which would be super cool.

[Analog]

Agreed. One has to think that Yuki wants to prove RB wrong in their decision to promote Lawson. If he smashes Hadjar and Lawson gets stuffed, I'd have to think he gets his shot in 2026 which would be super cool.

Tsunoda has had 4 years to prove himself mediocre. He's not going to wake up one day find himself 6 tenth's faster.

[Clrnc]

Hadjar is fast and it will be interesting but I am fairly convinced it will end badly for Tsunoda.

Funny bonus: He sounds exactly like Tsunoda on the radio! Maybe not the voice itself, but the constant whining proving that he believe he is the only one in the team that matters. 

You said the same for De Vries, Ricciardo and Lawson.

 

All got beaten by Tsunoda. 

[onemoresolo]

You said the same for De Vries, Ricciardo and Lawson.

 

All got beaten by Tsunoda. 

 

Given their first post was in late October, this seems unlikely. 

[jonklug]

Excited to see how Isack does in F1. Seeing how this batch of F2 drivers looks like a really good one, with multiple reaching F1, I don't see why he couldn't impress like Colapinto or Bearman did this year. And I think Yuki is a great team mate to have, he's developed into a solid driver and if Hadjar beats him or is close then he'll definitely be hear to stay. 

[AlexPrime]

I hope he beats Tsunoda so his fans can shut up finally 

[Red5ive]

Agreed. One has to think that Yuki wants to prove RB wrong in their decision to promote Lawson. If he smashes Hadjar and Lawson gets stuffed, I'd have to think he gets his shot in 2026 which would be super cool.

 

 

Think its glaringly obvious now (if it wasnt before) that RB will never put Tsunoda in that seat.

 

Hadjar - who knows. Like all these rookies coming in F1 is a totally diffferent and very large step up from what they have experience before, both in terms of speed and pressure - it will be interesting to see who sinks and who swims.

 

I think its refreshing that the teams seems to have decided to give the young guys a chance rather than sticking with the tried and trusted. There have been far to many seat blockers in F1 over the last few seasons.

Edited by Red5ive, 20 December 2024 - 17:59.

[aportinga]

Tsunoda has had 4 years to prove himself mediocre. He's not going to wake up one day find himself 6 tenth's faster.

 

Have you ever competed in high level sports? You may be surprised to know what sorts of events will light a fire - based on emotion with many athletes. If Yuki feels he should have got the RB job, he may be upset enough to prove some people wrong. 

 

Now whether he can or cannot is a totally different story. But I think he'll figure Hadjar out from the get go and all season.

 

I wouldn't mind more ogg on Horners face.

Edited by aportinga, 20 December 2024 - 18:46.

[Autodromo]

Hadjar drove in two FP1 sessions this year, correct?  Silverstone and Abu Dhabi.

[AlexPrime]

Have you ever competed in high level sports? You may be surprised to know what sorts of events will light a fire - based on emotion with many athletes. If Yuki feels he should have got the RB job, he may be upset enough to prove some people wrong. 

 

Now whether he can or cannot is a totally different story. But I think he'll figure Hadjar out from the get go and all season.

 

I wouldn't mind more ogg on Horners face.

Yeah and on the other way Liam might do well and Yuki might start crash more, in which case Horner will look like a genius. 
I have no ill will for Tsunoda. But I am genuinely happy for Liam 

[IrvTheSwerve]

I always take these young driver FP session opportunities with a bit of a pinch of salt. They are under clear instructions not to smash the car up (rightly so), so you can’t really expect them to go out there and push to the maximum. Look what happened to Antonelli when Mercedes stuck him out to do some push laps out of the box at Monza.

 

No one will really bat an eyelid if a young driver is off the pace, as they are expected to be, but they will pay attention if they write the car off.

Edited by IrvTheSwerve, 20 December 2024 - 21:22.

[messy]

If Hadjar shows well against Tsunoda, avoids too many meltdowns and Lawson struggles, it’s so easy to see him ending up in a Red Bull within half a season. He’s got an incredible opportunity here, rightly rewarded for a really stunning F2 season.

[MikeTekRacing]

I hope he beats Tsunoda so his fans can shut up finally 

neah. Tsunoda will be again faster and Hadjar will be given the chance to drive the RB once Lawson struggles.

 

Horner will say something like "He was close enough to Yuki, it was a close call but we think he can only go up from here"

[TomNokoe]

I like your Hadjar, Ticktum types who bare all on the radio. So long as it doesn't affect their driving it's fine, and so far that's not the case with Hadjar.

To be honest I've thought for a while that it's borderline ridiculous team radio is completely public. Before the days of F1TV, there was still a degree of privacy at the discretion of the broadcast team. I can't think of another elite sport like this. I've said this many times about many features of modern F1: less is more!

[Anja]

To be honest I've thought for a while that it's borderline ridiculous team radio is completely public. Before the days of F1TV, there was still a degree of privacy at the discretion of the broadcast team. I can't think of another elite sport like this. I've said this many times about many features of modern F1: less is more!

 

I agree, unfortunately once FOM found out how much "content" they can squeeze from the team radio there's no going back. 

Edited by Anja, 20 December 2024 - 22:02.

[MikeTekRacing]

I like your Hadjar, Ticktum types who bare all on the radio. So long as it doesn't affect their driving it's fine, and so far that's not the case with Hadjar.

To be honest I've thought for a while that it's borderline ridiculous team radio is completely public. Before the days of F1TV, there was still a degree of privacy at the discretion of the broadcast team. I can't think of another elite sport like this. I've said this many times about many features of modern F1: less is more!

neah, I am the opposite. Love getting the direct things. Not a problem if they swear or are angry. 

[Analog]

You said the same for De Vries, Ricciardo and Lawson.

 

All got beaten by Tsunoda. 

I did? And did they? 

I don't remember ever saying anything about deVries, ever. You must confuse me with someone else.
 

[Analog]

Have you ever competed in high level sports? You may be surprised to know what sorts of events will light a fire - based on emotion with many athletes. If Yuki feels he should have got the RB job, he may be upset enough to prove some people wrong. 

 

Now whether he can or cannot is a totally different story. But I think he'll figure Hadjar out from the get go and all season.

 

I wouldn't mind more ogg on Horners face.

I awaiting some examples proving your point.

[Jellyfishcake]

I agree, unfortunately once FOM found out how much "content" they can squeeze from the team radio there's no going back. 

 

Yeah so much this.

 

You just have to go through F1 twitter/youtube whatever to see how much content they get out of team radio soundbites,

 

What I dislike about it, is when people on social media say of this one complains more than the others etc, but in reality they'll all do it and it's just who is unlucky to be picked up by FOM and chosen as the team radio monkey to perform like the drivers at at a zoo exhibit etc 

[Anja]

Yeah so much this.

 

You just have to go through F1 twitter/youtube whatever to see how much content they get out of team radio soundbites,

 

What I dislike about it, is when people on social media say of this one complains more than the others etc, but in reality they'll all do it and it's just who is unlucky to be picked up by FOM and chosen as the team radio monkey to perform like the drivers at at a zoo exhibit etc 

 

Yeah, the lack of control and creating false narratives is the main issue for me. Drivers will always say stupid stuff in the adrenaline rush. It would be better if they published interesting bits of the team radio after the race, with the approval of team and driver. 

[BRG]

Yeah, the lack of control and creating false narratives is the main issue for me. Drivers will always say stupid stuff in the adrenaline rush. It would be better if they published interesting bits of the team radio after the race, with the approval of team and driver. 

You have to wonder what level of invective and abuse spouted from the lips of some of the greatest drivers in the past, but which we never heard.  I am sure some of them were far more outspoken than the PR schooled denizens of modern motor racing. 

 

I doubt if Alain Prost, after Senna drove into him in Suzuka, was remarking how lovely the weather was and how he was looking forward to a nice cool drink.

[IrvTheSwerve]

I doubt if Alain Prost, after Senna drove into him in Suzuka, was remarking how lovely the weather was and how he was looking forward to a nice cool drink.

We know exactly what Prost would have said over the radio if it was being broadcasted by Liberty/FOM.

 

”I’m OK.”

 

[Dalton007]

If Yuki was good enough, he would be in the RB seat. He isn't good enough in RB's eyes. They have all the data.

[BRG]

If Yuki was good enough, he would be in the RB seat. He isn't good enough in RB's eyes. They have all the data.

You say that with such confidence that Red Bull are acting in a logical and sensible manner. 

 

And yet all the evidence suggests that the data is the last thing being considered.  If it was, then Perez would have been history months ago.  

[Dalton007]

You say that with such confidence that Red Bull are acting in a logical and sensible manner. 

 

And yet all the evidence suggests that the data is the last thing being considered.  If it was, then Perez would have been history months ago.  

 

Could be contractual that prevented a change mid-season.

 

Was there a driver capable of taking Perez's seat, though? Yuki wasn't in the running, by the looks of it. 

[Frood]

There's also been reports that Horner mentioned Hadjar being quicker than Tsunoda at the recent test.

 

Mind you the logic breaks down when you realise Iwasa was quicker than both and Lawson as well!

Edited by Frood, 21 December 2024 - 18:49.

[Analog]

I've followed Tsunoda since his F3 days and I'd say nothing with him has changed since then. He was occasionally quick in both F3 and F2, but never consistent and he never gave the impression of being more than a decent driver.  Many shone more than him. Same can be said about Lawson, so I am not particularly excited. Hadjar, on the other hand, was always up and around the very best and the only one of the three that had the speed and consistency of a champion. He will be in Lawson's seat before August. 

[Boxerevo]

neah, I am the opposite. Love getting the direct things. Not a problem if they swear or are angry. 

No problem if they whine? Just asking for a friend.

[expert]

As the pieces fall into place as expected it looks like what Red Bull are really doing is clearing the decks for the next generation, and the priority is Hadjar and, perhaps even more so, Lindblad.  They're looking ahead to a potential Max-less future as well.

 

Tsunoda is clearly not part of that future.

 

Lawson finds himself a bit fortunate that he's homegrown and Red Bull clearly see him as more of a longer term team guy than Tsunoda.  That does give him a great opportunity to impress, but also he'll be easy to sacrifice - or at least just demote again if needed.  

 

2026 year they'll want to promote Lindblad to Racing Bulls at least, so who he is next to will probably be one of Hadjar of Lawson depending on how they both go in 2025. 

[Analog]

As the pieces fall into place as expected it looks like what Red Bull are really doing is clearing the decks for the next generation, and the priority is Hadjar and, perhaps even more so, Lindblad.  They're looking ahead to a potential Max-less future as well.

 

Tsunoda is clearly not part of that future.

 

Lawson finds himself a bit fortunate that he's homegrown and Red Bull clearly see him as more of a longer term team guy than Tsunoda.  That does give him a great opportunity to impress, but also he'll be easy to sacrifice - or at least just demote again if needed.  

 

2026 year they'll want to promote Lindblad to Racing Bulls at least, so who he is next to will probably be one of Hadjar of Lawson depending on how they both go in 2025. 

My theory is that they keep Tsunoda in Racing Bull just so that they better can evaluate Hadjar. Lawson would not have been suitable for that since he isn't a known quantity. I very much doubt that they have any long term plans for Liam.

[pacificquay]

Any word on car number for Hadjar?

 

EDIT - It’s going to be 6

Edited by pacificquay, 22 December 2024 - 17:47.

[William Hunt]

Nothing against Hadjar.... the kid's a fighter and he worked hard for this... but it really feels like the wrong Frenchie from (birth year) 2004 made it.

With the word "wrong" I don't mean to say anything negative about Hadjar, I do like him and will certainly support him a lot and I am happy to see him get a shot.

But the real big French talent born in 2004... has always been Hadrien David. But he had the bad luck to end up in that dreadful Renault Sport Academy who treated him poorly (he later was a year in the Alpine academy shortly, a year).

Hadrien David, who actually was good friends with Hadjar when they both were in single seaters, always was the superior talent compared with Hadjar for sure. That the most talented one of those two didn't make it is purely because he ended up in the wrong Junior F1 program (David didn't have any personal backing at all to fund his own career, he didn't have the budget at all to even try F3 ... )

 

After dominating the French karting scene for years, David won the French F4 title as a rookie by completely dominating it and two years later Renault (Alpine now) didn't think that finishing 2nd overall in F. Regional Europe ... was good enough to deserve a funded F3 seat....

 

 

In 2019 David and Hadjar both made their single seater debut in the same race, at Nogaro in French F4, for David that was also his car debut, for Hadjar it was his 4th race in a car.

 

That weekend in Nogaro there were 3 races, the 2nd one with reversed top 10 grid.  David scored 3 fastest laps, 2 poles, 2 wins in a 4th in the reversed top 10 race. That was the first weekend he raced in a car.

Hadjar, half a year younger as David though, was 8th, 10th & 16th at Nogaro that weekend...

 

David would dominate all year, in the final 9 races he scored 3 wins, 4 2nd places, one 3rd and one DNF. Hadjar had no podia in those 9 races, in fact he only had 2 podia all year: a 2nd at Lédenon and a win at Spa. David had 14 podia out of 21 races.

 

Am I saying Hadjar doesn't deserve it? No...but I'm really not convinced at all he is as good as some on this forum seem to believe. I think he's okay but not special but what's positive about Hadjar us that he is a driver who works hard and he's a fighter, he doesn't give up.

 

What I'm saying is: Red Bull could have picked a better Frenchman at the time. Victor Martins is also a superior talent as Hadjar imho.

 

Just compare their cv's (always start comparing from karting off course)

https://en.wikipedia...i/Hadrien_David

https://en.wikipedia.../Victor_Martins

https://en.wikipedia...ki/Isack_Hadjar

 

Anyway, I realize now this post may look pretty negative... didn't mean that but it is something to keep in the back of your mind that for every young driver who reaches F1, there are also quite a lot of them who deserved to make it as well (maybe Martins still will, he should be in it based on talent alone).

Edited by William Hunt, 02 January 2025 - 23:36.

[messy]

I feel like if there was an actual meritocratic system in the junior championships where drivers were chosen purely on their ability then the current F1 grid would look dramatically, drastically different. And I think it might be quite surprising who was in and who was out. From such an early point in a young driver’s career it’s all about getting into the right team at the right moment, joining the right academy, impressing the right people, and I think for a long, long time financial backing has been a more decisive differentiator between young prospects than the stopwatch.

Thing is, by the time driver A has been struggling to put a programme together driving for a less competitive team and seeing their prospects stall vs the arguably less talented driver B who managed to engineer a gold ticket to a top academy or something, driver B is probably the stronger driver because they’ve had the better schooling and they’ve been able to concentrate on going fast without worrying about not having enough spares if they have an accident. So one ends up in the ELMS and the other ends up at RB or whatever.

It’s just the way things are and I’m kinda ok with it, but it’s fascinating to think what could have been.

Edited by messy, 02 January 2025 - 23:54.

[PayasYouRace]

I don’t see why being good at the off track skills isn’t being meritocratic. At least with the super licence system now everyone reaching F1 is of a base level of talent and there’s far less difference nowadays between the best and worst on the grid that it was 20 years ago, let alone 30 or 40.

[messy]

I don’t see why being good at the off track skills isn’t being meritocratic. At least with the super licence system now everyone reaching F1 is of a base level of talent and there’s far less difference nowadays between the best and worst on the grid that it was 20 years ago, let alone 30 or 40.

Nah I think it’s pretty much fair enough. But I reckon there must be hundreds of drivers out there who might, potentially, have been able to make the grade had they been richer/luckier/better connected/etc and it’s interesting to see how two very comparable drivers at a certain level can see their careers diverge so….drastically.

I like to believe that generally the really special talents find a way through though.

[PayasYouRace]

Nah I think it’s pretty much fair enough. But I reckon there must be hundreds of drivers out there who might, potentially, have been able to make the grade had they been richer/luckier/better connected/etc and it’s interesting to see how two very comparable drivers at a certain level can see their careers diverge so….drastically.

I like to believe that generally the really special talents find a way through though.

I do also think that the “generational talents” as we tend to call them around here, rarely miss out. But you can’t fill a grid with those special drivers. F1 needs the reliable journeymen too. I also think that any dricer who is shown the potential for F1 level should at least be given a shot, if possible.

[kumo7]

Nothing against Hadjar.... the kid's a fighter and he worked hard for this... but it really feels like the wrong Frenchie from (birth year) 2004 made it.

With the word "wrong" I don't mean to say anything negative about Hadjar, I do like him and will certainly support him a lot and I am happy to see him get a shot.

But the real big French talent born in 2004... has always been Hadrien David. But he had the bad luck to end up in that dreadful Renault Sport Academy who treated him poorly (he later was a year in the Alpine academy shortly, a year).

Hadrien David, who actually was good friends with Hadjar when they both were in single seaters, always was the superior talent compared with Hadjar for sure. That the most talented one of those two didn't make it is purely because he ended up in the wrong Junior F1 program (David didn't have any personal backing at all to fund his own career, he didn't have the budget at all to even try F3 ... )

After dominating the French karting scene for years, David won the French F4 title as a rookie by completely dominating it and two years later Renault (Alpine now) didn't think that finishing 2nd overall in F. Regional Europe ... was good enough to deserve a funded F3 seat....


In 2019 David and Hadjar both made their single seater debut in the same race, at Nogaro in French F4, for David that was also his car debut, for Hadjar it was his 4th race in a car.

That weekend in Nogaro there were 3 races, the 2nd one with reversed top 10 grid. David scored 3 fastest laps, 2 poles, 2 wins in a 4th in the reversed top 10 race. That was the first weekend he raced in a car.
Hadjar, half a year younger as David though, was 8th, 10th & 16th at Nogaro that weekend...

David would dominate all year, in the final 9 races he scored 3 wins, 4 2nd places, one 3rd and one DNF. Hadjar had no podia in those 9 races, in fact he only had 2 podia all year: a 2nd at Lédenon and a win at Spa. David had 14 podia out of 21 races.

Am I saying Hadjar doesn't deserve it? No...but I'm really not convinced at all he is as good as some on this forum seem to believe. I think he's okay but not special but what's positive about Hadjar us that he is a driver who works hard and he's a fighter, he doesn't give up.

What I'm saying is: Red Bull could have picked a better Frenchman at the time. Victor Martins is also a superior talent as Hadjar imho.

Just compare their cv's (always start comparing from karting off course)
https://en.wikipedia...i/Hadrien_David
https://en.wikipedia.../Victor_Martins
https://en.wikipedia...ki/Isack_Hadjar

Anyway, I realize now this post may look pretty negative... didn't mean that but it is something to keep in the back of your mind that for every young driver who reaches F1, there are also quite a lot of them who deserved to make it as well (maybe Martins still will, he should be in it based on talent alone).

good read and make me motivate to look into it more.
looking back, Kamui Kobayashi was reported to be not good, while Eddie called Sato the next Schumi, the talk of the town seems to roll around on the axis other than his speed. Funny, Kamui now represents Gazoo and Sato muliple Indy 500 winner.

[Sterzo]

Anyway, I realize now this post may look pretty negative... didn't mean that but it is something to keep in the back of your mind that for every young driver who reaches F1, there are also quite a lot of them who deserved to make it as well (maybe Martins still will, he should be in it based on talent alone).

 

Not negative at all, I had wondered what on Earth became of Hadrien David and you've pretty much explained it. One for the "great might-have-beens" category.