45 replies to this topic

[onewingedangel]

https://www.formula1...9GDzlx0BPqRtMJx

Unless I'm missing something if Max got 25 from all team principals it's impossible for Lando to have got 178, as if he was ranked second by all he would have scored 180, and if a single team principal scored him third it would have taken him down to 177.

[Risil]

Fastest lap points maybe?

[P123]

Decent list, though I'd swap Norris and Leclerc, and drop Piastri below Sainz and Russell. 

[KWSN - DSM]

https://www.formula1...9GDzlx0BPqRtMJx

Unless I'm missing something if Max got 25 from all team principals it's impossible for Lando to have got 178, as if he was ranked second by all he would have scored 180, and if a single team principal scored him third it would have taken him down to 177.

 

The fix is in.

[Anderis]

Fastest lap points maybe?

That was my first thought as well.

 

The following one is that the voting is just a fraud and a PR stunt, they just pretend it's real but the actual voting has never taken place and someone from FOM just made up the numbers.

Edited by Anderis, 22 December 2024 - 12:29.

[Joseki]

Alonso went from P2 of last year to P9 this year and his performance relative to Stroll (his only constant benchmark) was pretty much exactly the same.

I'm not even sure how Piastri can be rated above Sainz.

 

It seems to me that most simply copy-pasted the WDC standings.

Edited by Joseki, 22 December 2024 - 18:42.

[Anderis]

Alonso went from P2 of last year to P9 this year and his performance relative to Stroll was pretty much exactly the same.

I'm not even sure how Piastri can be rated about Sainz.

 

It seems to me that most simply copy-pasted the WDC standings.

There's never been much depth to these results.

 

Drivers in good cars have always had easier time (that's why you see Alonso drop 7 places from 2023 to 2024). And almost every year there's one inexperienced driver who gets overrated based on the fact that his good results are a novelty. This year it's Piastri.

 

Rosberg not making it into top10 in 2009 is when I stopped taking it seriously.

[RainyAfterlifeDaylight]

Alonso 9th!?

 

Zilly team bosses!

[KWSN - DSM]

Alonso 9th!?

 

Zilly team bosses!

 

I agree he is not in top 10.

[santori]

I think people hugely overrated team principals' opinions.

 

My dad was an accomplished doctor and his view was that most medical departments were kindergartens. I don't think F1 team principals are any more mature than doctors - they're creatures of fashion and if you find yourself unfashionable you're in trouble (e.g. Nick Heidfeld). I remember about twenty years ago they all started saying 'mega'.

Edited by santori, 22 December 2024 - 13:28.

[KWSN - DSM]

I think people hugely overrated team principals' opinions.

 

My dad was an accomplished doctor and his view was that most medical departments were kindergartens. I don't think F1 team principals are any more mature than doctors - they're creatures of fashion and if you find yourself unfashionable you're in trouble (e.g. Nick Heidfeld). I remember about twenty years ago they all started saying 'mega'.

 

For sure.

[AlexPrime]

Happy for Max 

[messy]

Team bosses top ten is always quite daft. Where in theory it should be more accurate than the media/fan lists, I always agree with them more.

[Ghostface]

I don't think I've ever seen a driver lose their qualifying team mate team battle as badly as Piastri and still have a season rated so highly. Especially considering he rarely kept up with Norris during the races either. 

 

Alonso did have a bit of a slump from Imola to Austria where his form just fell off a cliff (bar Canada). Still the comfortably the best of the midfield. 

Edited by Ghostface, 22 December 2024 - 19:58.

[Victor]

With the exception of Perez and and Hulkenberg, this seems more the final results of the 2024 championship than a driver ranking...

[PayasYouRace]

Team bosses top ten is always quite daft. Where in theory it should be more accurate than the media/fan lists, I always agree with them more.

Well they’re probably the least impartial of anyone, bar the drivers themselves.

 

Now that’s a list I’d like to see.

[PrinceBira]

The drivers also voted:

 

EXCLUSIVE: The Top 10 F1 drivers of 2024 – as chosen by the drivers | Formula 1®

 

Verstappen on P1 as well. BUT, 'only' 8 of the 17 drivers that voted put Verstappen as #1 this year ;). An some apparently considered him to be #4:

 

Verstappen, who secured the title in Las Vegas with two Grands Prix to go, comfortably won the poll with eight drivers placing him top of their respective lists, and all who took part put him inside their top four.

 

 

And the drivers that voted:

 

The drivers who took part in the vote (in alphabetical order) were: Alex Albon, Fernando Alonso, Valtteri Bottas, Franco Colapinto, Pierre Gasly, Nico Hulkenberg, Liam Lawson, Charles Leclerc, Kevin Magnussen, Lando Norris, Esteban Ocon, Oscar Piastri, George Russell, Carlos Sainz, Lance Stroll, Yuki Tsunoda, Zhou Guanyu.

Edited by PrinceBira, 23 December 2024 - 15:59.

[KWSN - DSM]

Piastri still too high.

[PayasYouRace]

The drivers also voted:

 

EXCLUSIVE: The Top 10 F1 drivers of 2024 – as chosen by the drivers | Formula 1®

 

Verstappen on P1 as well. BUT, 'only' 8 of the 17 drivers that voted put Verstappen as #1 this year ;). An some apparently considered him to be #4:

 

 

And the drivers that voted:

Disappointing that there’s no scores breakdown, and also everyone is roughly where you’d expect.

[Bleu]

When team makes a big leap forward it probably shows in drivers' value more than it should. 

[rodlamas]

Piastri still too high.

That's not what people who direct F1 teams and drive F1 cars think.

[messy]

I find Piastri really confusing, because I can totally see why he’s so highly rated in the paddock. Hungary, Baku, Monza. Real deal, brilliant racing instincts, if he performs at that level every weekend here’s our ideal Verstappen challenger potentially. But he doesn’t, and on his off days he’s purely a distant #2 to Lando. Plus the qualifying speed just isn’t there yet and I really hoped that would have come by now. But he’s clearly got a lot of people that really believe in him.

I’ve looked back at these lists over the years, and there are certain drivers - Kimi Raikkonen in his Ferrari days, Daniil Kvyat at Red Bull, Esteban Ocon at Force India, who stand out because the team bosses really rated them much higher than the fans and media did at that time. And others - thinking Daniel Ricciardo, who really drop down a lot compared to the media and fan rankings. Ricciardo the best driver of 2014 and 2016? Nowhere near according to the team bosses. It’s at least interesting to look at the obvious disparities. I actually kinda take back what I posted earlier. On some of those things, I agree more with the team bosses.

Edited by messy, 23 December 2024 - 23:39.

[baddog]

Alonso went from P2 of last year to P9 this year and his performance relative to Stroll (his only constant benchmark) was pretty much exactly the same.

I'm not even sure how Piastri can be rated above Sainz.

 

 

 

Not really true about Alonso, last year he decimated Stroll, it was much less consistently so this year. Still miles ahead but this was not a vintage Alonso year at all.

 

Piastri is being underrated a lot, but Sainz was definitely better I agree.

[noikeee]

I find Piastri really confusing, because I can totally see why he’s so highly rated in the paddock. Hungary, Baku, Monza. Real deal, brilliant racing instincts, if he performs at that level every weekend here’s our ideal Verstappen challenger potentially. But he doesn’t, and on his off days he’s purely a distant #2 to Lando.

 

Yep. He's shown several times the potential is there, not just in terms of racecraft which is plain better than Lando but pace as well in some occasions, but he's so far off that level of pace so often, it's really hard to read.

[baddog]

You can train out inconsistency and other issues if you have raw speed. Its the oldest cliche in racing just about.

[Anderis]

You can train out inconsistency and other issues if you have raw speed. Its the oldest cliche in racing just about.

Many of us thought that Maldonado would've eventually become a very good driver.

 

Nonetheless, this voting was about who performed the best in 2024, not who has the potential to do well in the future.

 

P4 seems too high for a driver who lost 20-4 in qualifying and 16-8 in races to a driver who wasn't even voted P1. Russell won the same number of races in a less competitive car (could've even had more if not for Belgium DSQ) and beat a 7xWDC. Would've almost matched Piastri's points tally if Mercedes was as reliable as McLaren.

[baddog]

Many of us thought that Maldonado would've eventually become a very good driver.

 

Nonetheless, this voting was about who performed the best in 2024, not who has the potential to do well in the future.

 

P4 seems too high for a driver who lost 20-4 in qualifying and 16-8 in races to a driver who wasn't even voted P1. Russell won the same number of races in a less competitive car (could've even had more if not for Belgium DSQ) and beat a 7xWDC. Would've almost matched Piastri's points tally if Mercedes was as reliable as McLaren.

 

I agree, I put Piastri behind Sainz and Russell this year.

 

His potential however is huge.

[noikeee]

You can train out inconsistency and other issues if you have raw speed. Its the oldest cliche in racing just about.

I agree but a) the gap between the races he's fast and the races he's slow is so big and there's so many races he's slow, and b) the point is there's no way that right now he's the 4th/5th best driver in F1 already lol

[PrinceBira]

Did Piastri improve in ‘24 compared to ‘23?

[Spillage]

It's amazing how often even team bosses rank drivers solely based on their championship position. To say Norris drove a better season than Russell is a stretch, never mind Piastri.

[baddog]

Did Piastri improve in ‘24 compared to ‘23?

Yes

[KWSN - DSM]

That's not what people who direct F1 teams and drive F1 cars think.

 

They are wrong.

[CharlesWinstone]

Did Piastri improve in ‘24 compared to ‘23?

He did and so did Norris which may give the impression that Piastri did not improve.

[MissingApex]

It's amazing how often even team bosses rank drivers solely based on their championship position. To say Norris drove a better season than Russell is a stretch, never mind Piastri.

Nobody rates Russell above Norris tbh.

[rodlamas]

They are wrong.

Of course. Multi-billion companies pay those guys dozens of millions per year each to have a worse opinion than us.

[Sterzo]

Nobody rates Russell above Norris tbh.

I do. For what it's worth. (Which is the square root of not a lot).

[baddog]

Nobody rates Russell above Norris tbh.

 

I think they are in a very similiar place regarding pace. Russell is yet more incident prone, and Norris shows tactical weaknesses. Id give it to Lando by a hair but only that. 

[Bliman]

Nobody rates Russell above Norris tbh.

I rate Russell above Norris and it is not so hard to do so when you look at this year either. For one just look at Norris his starts and you see enough difference already.

[Bliman]

Did Piastri improve in ‘24 compared to ‘23?

He did improve from 23 in the first half but he regressed very hard in the second half maybe even lower than 23.

[Bleu]

If a team improves massively it shows in these kind of rankings.

[1player]

I rate Russell above Norris and it is not so hard to do so when you look at this year either. For one just look at Norris his starts and you see enough difference already.

It's so easy to underrate Norris when his only competition was one of the greatest drivers this sport has seen, and he indeed came up short.

The issue with Leclerc, Russell and Piastri that people love to go on about, is that they didn't even manage to get close to Max, let alone compare themselves with him.

People do love an underdog, but wake me up when they can actually fight for P1 and not bin the car, put it in the wall, or rear end Colapinto because they're upset.

Edited by 1player, 26 December 2024 - 14:59.

[Bliman]

It's so easy to underrate Norris when his only competition was one of the greatest drivers this sport has seen, and he indeed came up short.

The issue with Leclerc, Russell and Piastri that people love to go on about, is that they didn't even manage to get close to Max, let alone compare themselves with him.

People do love an underdog, but wake me up when they can actually fight for P1 and not bin the car, put it in the wall, or rear end Colapinto because they're upset.

I don't compare him to Max. I compare him to Russell in this case.

[Outsider]

I don't compare him to Max. I compare him to Russell in this case.

the one who crashes on last laps all by himself... yeah, he is so much better than Norris

[Anderis]

the one who crashes on last laps all by himself... yeah, he is so much better than Norris

Both Russell and Norris have 1 DNF each over the last 3 years due to crashing out all by themselves.

[messy]

Russell’s season rating was bumped by the favourable comparison with Lewis, Lando’s was bumped by McLaren’s rise to the front. Both make mistakes still and have things to improve, but both did well. I think they’re pretty much in the exact same position in their careers really. Couldn’t even say who was better at this point. I think Leclerc’s maybe better than both still, personally, and Max is better than all of them.

[Bliman]

the one who crashes on last laps all by himself... yeah, he is so much better than Norris

Is Norris so much better at that department? And Norris his starts are pretty bad and also his first corners are bad. So yes imo Russell is better.