67 replies to this topic

[kumo7]

I prefer thar the fans of an individual player setting up its own thread, If the talks were not about McLaren team, but about the achievement of the individual sporter, his skills and prospects of himself being the Subject.
McLaren thread is about McLaren’s team efforts.

[Button4life]

I prefer thar the fans of an individual player setting up its own thread, If the talks were not about McLaren team, but about the achievement of the individual sporter, his skills and prospects of himself being the Subject.
McLaren thread is about McLaren’s team efforts.

It used to be like that on this forum. It wasn’t a succes…

[pup]

PF1 is reporting that McLaren is doing some shuffling in their strategy department -

https://www.planetf1...e-oli-cartlidge

It looks to me though like they just stripped this ‘announcement’ from the guy’s LinkedIn page; so *imo* with the rampant job title inflation in F1, it’s really anyone’s guess if this is a big change or not.

Regardless, hopefully we see some improved race day decision making from the team this year.

Edited by pup, Yesterday, 13:38.

[pup]

Niel Houdley is bullish about the current car’s development potential and sees no reason why the team can’t win this season while not sacrificing development for 2026…

https://www.motorspo...-2026/10686928/

[CPR]

Regardless, hopefully we see some improved race day decision making from the team this year.

 

Same here...

 

Though I also hope to see better reasoned analysis from fans. Sometimes calls for "better strategy" provide no reasoning and seem to imply that lap time can be magicked into existence. There's only so much that can be done to predict future events based on previous data. And just because one team could do something, it doesn't mean that the other teams won't react to counter it.

 

Saying that, there's only so much the strategists can do depending on the car's relative performance. An aggressive strategy that requires multiple overtakes is harder to execute if the car's top speed is relatively low or the performance gap is small. A long stint isn't likely to work if tyre degradation is poor. Etc. So hopefully this year's car will have more strategic options available to it as well as just raw speed.

[rodlamas]

Be prepared for the whole press to create WW3 for every 0.1 of a second lost on a pitstop.

Press will be rooting for

1) Hamilton winning at Ferrari
2) Verstappen making a 5th staight and equalling Michael
3) Mercedes showing they have their new Max.
4) Aston promising they have their dominant car with Newey, Honda and Aramco (and possibly having Alonso and Verstappen together in 2026).

Mclaren is the only team that offers nothing to the press and will be questioned and worsely treated for absolutely everything.

Be prepared. But it will be even tastier.

Edited by rodlamas, Yesterday, 16:30.

[BertoC]

Yeah, we'll have the two biggest fanbases in F1 working in common. Ferrari and Hamilton. Everyone and their dog will push them to win.

[Button4life]

Same here...

Though I also hope to see better reasoned analysis from fans. Sometimes calls for "better strategy" provide no reasoning and seem to imply that lap time can be magicked into existence. There's only so much that can be done to predict future events based on previous data. And just because one team could do something, it doesn't mean that the other teams won't react to counter it.

Saying that, there's only so much the strategists can do depending on the car's relative performance. An aggressive strategy that requires multiple overtakes is harder to execute if the car's top speed is relatively low or the performance gap is small. A long stint isn't likely to work if tyre degradation is poor. Etc. So hopefully this year's car will have more strategic options available to it as well as just raw speed.

My main criticism is that the strategy is way too conservative. I’ll take Spa as example. Norris was in nowhere land. He basically followed the strategy of Max instead of trying something different like Russell. He wouldn’t lost anything if he did a 1 stop. Worst case scenario he finishes 7th.

McLaren almost always went for the overcut instead of undercut. Which makes 0 sense when you have the best tyre wear and arguably the quickest car.

Edited by Button4life, Yesterday, 18:23.

[GlenWatkins]

To be fair, most of your posts are critical of the team and/or drivers.

Edited by GlenWatkins, Yesterday, 19:14.

[Button4life]

To be fair, most of your posts are critical of the team and/or drivers.

I’m just a critical person . And I’m passionate about McLaren. So when it goes well I’m really happy (except when stupid stuff happens like Hungary) but when it goes bad I’m pissed.

[CPR]

My main criticism is that the strategy is way too conservative. I’ll take Spa as example. Norris was in nowhere land. He basically followed the strategy of Max instead of trying something different like Russell. He wouldn’t lost anything if he did a 1 stop. Worst case scenario he finishes 7th.

McLaren almost always went for the overcut instead of undercut. Which makes 0 sense when you have the best tyre wear and arguably the quickest car.

 

I'd probably phrase it slightly differently but I agree with your analysis of Spa. I vaguely remember being rather irritated with the strategy there.

 

With regards to overcuts vs undercuts, I'd prefer overcuts in general. An undercut lets you attack at most one other driver and if it doesn't work out then you're pretty much out of options. An overcut can pay bigger dividends and help protect against SC/VSCs and traffic is less likely to be an issue. On the other hand, if you can pit within about 1s of the driver in front then an undercut has a high chance of success while an overcut can be more of a shot in the dark sometimes.

[kumo7]

I'd probably phrase it slightly differently but I agree with your analysis of Spa. I vaguely remember being rather irritated with the strategy there.

With regards to overcuts vs undercuts, I'd prefer overcuts in general. An undercut lets you attack at most one other driver and if it doesn't work out then you're pretty much out of options. An overcut can pay bigger dividends and help protect against SC/VSCs and traffic is less likely to be an issue. On the other hand, if you can pit within about 1s of the driver in front then an undercut has a high chance of success while an overcut can be more of a shot in the dark sometimes.

This point is very valid important, and I value it is very crucial for McLaren aiming to take the both titles within the year that it prepares for the big regulation change.
As I am an audience there is limit to say. But, what I feel is that I could not watch the winning strategy during 2024 season.

What I meant to say is that Michael Schumacher had one in his pit-and-refueling era and it worked.

Michael’s strategy won quite many races by linking car’s performance with race strategy. the lightest, smallest and nimblest car which could create quickest lap time one lap after the other, allow them to take occasionally one more pitstop than its competitors. It appeared to me that michael’s strategy and the engineering was operated under one concept and designed, built and ended the operation together.
McLaren is racing against Max Verstappen at the moment so I think McLaren has to always start in front of Max and finish in front of him by not giving any chance for torpedoes.
It looks to me that new changes implemented by this year could bring a step forward; at least to the Oscar’s side. I think this is not convincing to me, but who am i to speak? So we will see hope that it’s going to succeed.

Edited by kumo7, Yesterday, 21:00.

[Button4life]

I'd probably phrase it slightly differently but I agree with your analysis of Spa. I vaguely remember being rather irritated with the strategy there.

With regards to overcuts vs undercuts, I'd prefer overcuts in general. An undercut lets you attack at most one other driver and if it doesn't work out then you're pretty much out of options. An overcut can pay bigger dividends and help protect against SC/VSCs and traffic is less likely to be an issue. On the other hand, if you can pit within about 1s of the driver in front then an undercut has a high chance of success while an overcut can be more of a shot in the dark sometimes.

The waiting for a SC/VSC only worked at Miami. After Miami they tried the same many times but it always failed.

About the undercut, I mostly mean when Norris was 2nd or 3rd behind Max. There were so many times Norris was 2-4 seconds behind Max but tried the overcut instead of undercut. Overtaking isn’t an issue when the tyre offset so big. And traffic definitely isn’t an issue McLaren if tried to undercut during the 2nd stint.

Lastly, undercutting makes more sense when you have good tyre wear. The tyres would have similar tyre life as competitors at the end of the stint. The only benefit of overcutting when you’re in front is getting lucky with a (v)sc which didn’t work after Miami. Overtaking Max is almost impossible on track. It’s better to do that in the pit lane.

Edited by Button4life, Yesterday, 20:56.

[jensfan09]

Lando passed Max on track at the Dutch GP, he also passed him in Austria until Max went off track and kept the lead, Lando can pass Max, when Max is not trying to punt him off track! Lol

Canada was a big miss for me, the team should have pre-empted the safety car and had the pit crew ready just in case, Lando had time to pit if the team were on the ball!

Edited by jensfan09, Yesterday, 21:20.

[kumo7]

The waiting for a SC/VSC only worked at Miami. After Miami they tried the same many times but it always failed.

About the undercut, I mostly mean when Norris was 2nd or 3rd behind Max. There were so many times Norris was 2-4 seconds behind Max but tried the overcut instead of undercut. Overtaking isn’t an issue when the tyre offset so big. And traffic definitely isn’t an issue McLaren if tried to undercut during the 2nd stint.

Lastly, undercutting makes more sense when you have good tyre wear. The tyres would have similar tyre life as competitors at the end of the stint. The only benefit of overcutting when you’re in front is getting lucky with a (v)sc which didn’t work after Miami. Overtaking Max is almost impossible on track. It’s better to do that in the pit lane.

very interesting relationship between tyre and the strategy.
As I understand from the news, 2025 McLaren is going to set up two strategies one for Norris and the other for Oscar. I think this is going to work very well, because both drivers does have a different way of using tires and different strategy will benefit the good side of two drivers.

[Button4life]

very interesting relationship between tyre and the strategy.
As I understand from the news, 2025 McLaren is going to set up two strategies one for Norris and the other for Oscar. I think this is going to work very well, because both drivers does have a different way of using tires and different strategy will benefit the good side of two drivers.

Early stops benefit them both. Piastri still has poor tyre management. Tyre wear is usually worse in the first stint than 2nd (and 3rd) so it makes sense to get him off the softest tyres asap.

Norris is at his strongest during his last stint. So for him it also makes more sense to pit him early during the first or second stint.

[KWSN - DSM]

very interesting relationship between tyre and the strategy.
As I understand from the news, 2025 McLaren is going to set up two strategies one for Norris and the other for Oscar. I think this is going to work very well, because both drivers does have a different way of using tires and different strategy will benefit the good side of two drivers.

 

That seems to invite posts of drivers getting preference over the other.

[pup]

I think the gist is that each driver’s strategy would be decided independently, therefore no chance of preference.

Of course if both sides of the garage settle on the same lap, something would need to give.

It doesn’t seem like the ideal setup to me, but historically McLaren has been hell bent on making driver equality work. It’s a strategy that Elvis and Bigfoot told to Ron Dennis in a dream, but if Zak can summon that magic and finally make it work then more power to him.

Edited by pup, Today, 02:36.