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2025 McLaren F1 Thread


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#2301 ArchieTech

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Posted 28 March 2025 - 14:44

Clear example. Max made mistakes in Q and the race in Oz and made a poor start in China. The fact is that Max's mistakes are overlooked and Lando's always hit the headlines.

The fun thing is that if the start outcomes were reversed between Max and Lando last week, I suspect it would have been used as "evidence" by some people that Lando couldn't be champion and Max is an untouchable genius. Except it was Lando that started well and dispatched George round the outside in two corners and Max that fell back.



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#2302 pup

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Posted 28 March 2025 - 14:48

Considering the car beneath him, I think Max has done better.

 

Maybe, but Max has the benefit of a rookie driver making the car look difficult.  I'm sure it is, but the McLaren bites, too.  But I think we have two really good drivers who have a handle on it.  Lawson does't need anyone else piling on, but imo, he'd have fared no better in the McLaren.  After all, we were told that the Red Bull was made to be easier to drive this year.  



#2303 pup

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Posted 28 March 2025 - 14:51

The fun thing is that if the start outcomes were reversed between Max and Lando last week, I suspect it would have been used as "evidence" by some people that Lando couldn't be champion and Max is an untouchable genius. Except it was Lando that started well and dispatched George round the outside in two corners and Max that fell back.

Not to mention that Max's starts have been just fine - he's just gotten blocked on both occasions by Lando, whose situational awareness on the starts has improved considerably over the last year.



#2304 RedRabbit

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Posted 28 March 2025 - 15:44

[quote name="pup" post="10871130" timestamp="1743173310"]

Maybe, but Max has the benefit of a rookie driver making the car look difficult. I'm sure it is, but the McLaren bites, too. But I think we have two really good drivers who have a handle on it. Lawson does't need anyone else piling on, but imo, he'd have fared no better in the McLaren. After all, we were told that the Red Bull was made to be easier to drive this year. [/quote

This is wild, hahahaha. Lawson drove last year too, in a different car, and made Q2 on every occasion iirc and scored points.

Nothing suggests that he would be P20 in the McLaren, same as nothing suggests the Red Bull has been made easier to drive. Wache actually said they specifically were not doing this.

#2305 Mc_Silver

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Posted 28 March 2025 - 15:56


Maybe, but Max has the benefit of a rookie driver making the car look difficult. I'm sure it is, but the McLaren bites, too. But I think we have two really good drivers who have a handle on it. Lawson does't need anyone else piling on, but imo, he'd have fared no better in the McLaren. After all, we were told that the Red Bull was made to be easier to drive this year.

This is wild, hahahaha. Lawson drove last year too, in a different car, and made Q2 on every occasion iirc and scored points.

Nothing suggests that he would be P20 in the McLaren, same as nothing suggests the Red Bull has been made easier to drive. Wache actually said they specifically were not doing this.
It's silly to compare McLaren and Red Bull here as the former focuses on designing its car suitable for both drivers whereas the latter is all about one driver team.

Edited by Mc_Silver, 28 March 2025 - 15:58.


#2306 pup

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Posted 28 March 2025 - 16:10

 


Maybe, but Max has the benefit of a rookie driver making the car look difficult. I'm sure it is, but the McLaren bites, too. But I think we have two really good drivers who have a handle on it. Lawson does't need anyone else piling on, but imo, he'd have fared no better in the McLaren. After all, we were told that the Red Bull was made to be easier to drive this year.

This is wild, hahahaha. Lawson drove last year too, in a different car, and made Q2 on every occasion iirc and scored points.

Nothing suggests that he would be P20 in the McLaren, same as nothing suggests the Red Bull has been made easier to drive. Wache actually said they specifically were not doing this.

Don't know why you say that, Wache said specifically that they WERE doing that - that they left performance on the table to widen its performance zone and make it easier to handle, and that was the entire point of their winter development.  Maybe they failed, but if so, then they failed to develop the car at all over the winter, which is pretty damning.  The car should be easier to drive than last year.  

 

“What we did this year, is to maybe reduce the complete potential of the car, the peakiness, but giving a more easy way to use by the driver – that’s what our main purpose was, especially on the entry of the corner,” Wache said.  “It’s not as simple as that, because it’s a characteristic that the peak of downforce is not only on one dimension. It’s a multi-dimensional system that is not only downforce – it is also suspension-wise and what the kinematic is doing, but is an overall car characteristic of how the driver feels.  


“But, fundamentally, it’s exactly that – reduce the overall potential in grip and capacity of the car to make it more flat.
 
“That’s what we are seeing at the moment.
 
“Last year, we had a quite difficult car and, to rebalance it, it would put you in a corner in terms of what you could do.
 
“Now it is giving us a wider range of setups that we have to explore. 
 
“And it will take time to see what the best compromise is, and the compromise could be quite different from track to track, because it gives us a lot more freedom.”
 
Wache added that the work done on the RB21 was more extensive than the “patch-up” job it did on the RB20 which saw Verstappen add two GP wins late on in the 2024 campaign.
 
“[It was] a patch to reduce the potential a bit, make it a little bit wider, but it was a small patch,” he said.
 
“Now we did the full concept of the car in this direction.”

It's McLaren who did the opposite, and we know that from both drivers and from Stella.  Is it as difficult as the Red Bull?  No way to know, but the Mclaren certainly doesn't qualify as tame.  Lawson's performance last year only shows that he can handle a tame car, and his performance this year, relative to last, shows that he's not adaptable enough at this point in his career to handle a difficult car.  We're also well aware of Lando's ability to drive around problems (vs Ricciardo), and the same for Oscar, who was equally at home in the McLaren from the start.  Lawson's performance at RB, btw, was overall quite similar to Danny's, vs Tsunoda (Lawson 20% vs Danny 27% outscoring Tsunoda).  We'll see soon enough if Tsunoda is more adaptable, but we've seen nothing that says Lawson would be adaptable enough to fare any better in this year's McLaren vs the Red Bull.  

 

McLaren have a very high performing but tricky car, and we're fortunate to have two very adaptable drivers who can keep it under control.

 

But you guys go ahead blaming Max's mistakes on his car while blaming McLaren's on the drivers.  


Edited by pup, 28 March 2025 - 16:42.


#2307 Lazy

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Posted 28 March 2025 - 18:54

I don´t think you should talk about confirmation bias. If you want to go that road then Lando had a bad qualy and sprint race in China. Not to mention going off track and almost losing the car in Aus. And before you jump in, Max also had a mistake in Aus but he didn´t go off-track. 

 

 

Considering the car beneath him, I think Max has done better. But that doesn´t mean Lando is driving bad. On the contrary, he seems much more composed during the races. I think he´ll take the title this year. 

I never said that Lando hadn't made mistakes.



#2308 Lazy

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Posted 28 March 2025 - 18:56

[quote name="pup" post="10871130" timestamp="1743173310"]

Maybe, but Max has the benefit of a rookie driver making the car look difficult. I'm sure it is, but the McLaren bites, too. But I think we have two really good drivers who have a handle on it. Lawson does't need anyone else piling on, but imo, he'd have fared no better in the McLaren. After all, we were told that the Red Bull was made to be easier to drive this year. [/quote

This is wild, hahahaha. Lawson drove last year too, in a different car, and made Q2 on every occasion iirc and scored points.

Nothing suggests that he would be P20 in the McLaren, same as nothing suggests the Red Bull has been made easier to drive. Wache actually said they specifically were not doing this.

Tell it to Ricciardo mate.



#2309 Psymon

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Posted 28 March 2025 - 19:18

Bottas was driving the MCL60 yesterday in Barcelona.  McLaren have access to him as a potential reserve driver if needed so was to give him preparation in case called on.

 

https://www.the-race...ng-for-mclaren/



#2310 jensfan09

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Posted 28 March 2025 - 22:33

Bottas was driving the MCL60 yesterday in Barcelona. McLaren have access to him as a potential reserve driver if needed so was to give him preparation in case called on.

https://www.the-race...ng-for-mclaren/


Did he sign an NDA? Lol

#2311 Sterzo

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Posted 29 March 2025 - 10:51

For those with a subscription to The Times, there's a decent interview with Oscar Piastri in today's edition, conducted by Molly Wheeler. The final paragraph is possibly the one I found most revealing:

“I don’t think that I’m at the peak of what I’m capable of, but I’m trying my absolute best to get there as quickly as possible. I know when I have my best weekends, they’re good enough to beat the very best.”



#2312 1player

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Posted 29 March 2025 - 13:47

For those with a subscription to The Times, there's a decent interview with Oscar Piastri in today's edition, conducted by Molly Wheeler. The final paragraph is possibly the one I found most revealing:

“I don’t think that I’m at the peak of what I’m capable of, but I’m trying my absolute best to get there as quickly as possible. I know when I have my best weekends, they’re good enough to beat the very best.”

I'm a Lando fan but I will admit that Oscar can only grow and improve by being paired with Lando, and viceversa. These are two world champions in the making. 

 

They might not be Schumacher level, but not everybody has to be. I rather prefer Hakkinen to the Michael. :rolleyes:


Edited by 1player, 29 March 2025 - 13:47.


#2313 Mc_Silver

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Posted 29 March 2025 - 15:38

I'm a Lando fan but I will admit that Oscar can only grow and improve by being paired with Lando, and viceversa. These are two world champions in the making.

They might not be Schumacher level, but not everybody has to be. I rather prefer Hakkinen to the Michael. :rolleyes:


Why not? They have potential to even exceed it. Lando has the raw speed of the best both in qualifying trim and race trim. Although it's still early days, Oscar seems to have improved his qualifying speed and tyre management. Both drivers are getting better every single day which is really exciting to see. We have the best driver pairing in the grid.

#2314 pup

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Posted 29 March 2025 - 15:50

Did he sign an NDA? Lol

 

That was the last of the Key/Siedl cars; so please, Valtteri, take copious notes.



#2315 Mc_Silver

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Posted 29 March 2025 - 18:25

https://youtu.be/6VJ0J-nDayw

#2316 blakey

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Posted 29 March 2025 - 18:42

But that's the entire point, I prefaced by saying Lando is often over criticized and rubbish is the wrong word but Max keeps having complete weekends from fp1 to race end, our drivers make a lot of small errors.

The biggest issue has b3en qualifying, both have messed up their bankers several times last 18 months


You can't put that on lando who had 8 poles last year

#2317 JL14

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Posted 29 March 2025 - 18:43

MS: This pointy handling characteristic has been typical for the Red Bull cars for quite a long time. And now, Lando Norris has also started saying that McLaren is very difficult to drive — fast, but incredibly tricky. That got me thinking: wait a minute, Rob Marshall moved from Red Bull to McLaren some time ago. Do you think there’s a connection?

HM: I think there’s an obvious connection. McLaren’s upward trajectory began immediately after that switch — that was the Austrian Grand Prix in 2023. It’s clear that some know-how was transferred. Rob Marshall is a very experienced, capable designer, and his influence has become noticeable at McLaren.

 

Marko exclusive: “We’re not dropping Lawson – we’re saving his future”



#2318 Lazy

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Posted 29 March 2025 - 20:10

 

MS: This pointy handling characteristic has been typical for the Red Bull cars for quite a long time. And now, Lando Norris has also started saying that McLaren is very difficult to drive — fast, but incredibly tricky. That got me thinking: wait a minute, Rob Marshall moved from Red Bull to McLaren some time ago. Do you think there’s a connection?

HM: I think there’s an obvious connection. McLaren’s upward trajectory began immediately after that switch — that was the Austrian Grand Prix in 2023. It’s clear that some know-how was transferred. Rob Marshall is a very experienced, capable designer, and his influence has become noticeable at McLaren.

 

Marko exclusive: “We’re not dropping Lawson – we’re saving his future”

 

I think pointy is fast and what gives Lando and Max the edge is that they can handle it. 



#2319 kumo7

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Posted 30 March 2025 - 00:16

HM connects everything and foes do to intimidate any of his competitors.

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#2320 Rabbit

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Posted 30 March 2025 - 00:21

https://youtu.be/6VJ0J-nDayw

Awesome video, shows how many decisions are happening on the fly.

#2321 RThorn

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Posted 30 March 2025 - 00:26

 

MS: This pointy handling characteristic has been typical for the Red Bull cars for quite a long time. And now, Lando Norris has also started saying that McLaren is very difficult to drive — fast, but incredibly tricky. That got me thinking: wait a minute, Rob Marshall moved from Red Bull to McLaren some time ago. Do you think there’s a connection?

HM: I think there’s an obvious connection. McLaren’s upward trajectory began immediately after that switch — that was the Austrian Grand Prix in 2023. It’s clear that some know-how was transferred. Rob Marshall is a very experienced, capable designer, and his influence has become noticeable at McLaren.

 

Marko exclusive: “We’re not dropping Lawson – we’re saving his future”

 

 

Marshall left RB in 2023, and joined McLaren in 2024 after gardening leave. Is Marko implying that Marshal broke terms of his contract and worked for McLaren while on leave and on Red Bull payroll? Marko is full of ****!


Edited by RThorn, 30 March 2025 - 02:47.


#2322 Alfisti

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Posted 30 March 2025 - 02:16

Why not? They have potential to even exceed it. Lando has the raw speed of the best both in qualifying trim and race trim.

 

Pump the brakes now, come on. true generational greatness announces itself early, without fail. It's already too late for both of them.



#2323 GreenMachine

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Posted 30 March 2025 - 02:23

Pump the brakes now, come on. true generational greatness announces itself early, without fail. It's already too late for both of them.

 

By definition it happens infrequently.  Empirically, I believe it is evident from day 1 or thereabouts.  No way could Lando or Oscar meet that description.

 

Having said that, they are both high-order talents, and their performances support this.  However, the task ahead is translate that into success on track, a task which has only just commenced.



#2324 Alfisti

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Posted 30 March 2025 - 02:35

High order talents for sure, if Rosberg and Button and Hill can win a WDC then Lando, Russel, Leclerc and maybe Piastri can too. 

 

But michael was a force of nature, it was immediately clear he was the second best driver on the grid behind Senna within 2 or 3 races. 



#2325 frosty125

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Posted 30 March 2025 - 06:39


MS: This pointy handling characteristic has been typical for the Red Bull cars for quite a long time. And now, Lando Norris has also started saying that McLaren is very difficult to drive — fast, but incredibly tricky. That got me thinking: wait a minute, Rob Marshall moved from Red Bull to McLaren some time ago. Do you think there’s a connection?

HM: I think there’s an obvious connection. McLaren’s upward trajectory began immediately after that switch — that was the Austrian Grand Prix in 2023. It’s clear that some know-how was transferred. Rob Marshall is a very experienced, capable designer, and his influence has become noticeable at McLaren.


Marko exclusive: “We’re not dropping Lawson – we’re saving his future”


BS we know it was Prod behind the 2023 step forward

#2326 Lazy

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Posted 30 March 2025 - 07:30

Pump the brakes now, come on. true generational greatness announces itself early, without fail. It's already too late for both of them.

Prost was the exception to this and probably turned out to be a better overall driver than Senna. 



#2327 kumo7

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Posted 30 March 2025 - 09:30

https://youtu.be/6VJ0J-nDayw


Fantastic!!

When Alo, Carlos er all made huge mistake and Max and Schmitt made that wrong call, Norris was perfect.
Yes Lando, I believe you. You can do it!!!

#2328 Mc_Silver

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Posted 30 March 2025 - 16:25

Pump the brakes now, come on. true generational greatness announces itself early, without fail. It's already too late for both of them.


I'm sorry but this is just bullsh**

#2329 pup

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Posted 30 March 2025 - 16:30

I’m going to be so happy when F1 fans get bored with ‘generational’, as if it meant anything to begin with.

Edited by pup, 30 March 2025 - 16:31.


#2330 pup

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Posted 30 March 2025 - 16:40

https://youtu.be/6VJ0J-nDayw

Have to say, that’s good communication between Lando and Will throughout. Seems like they’ve added in some protocols between them, and are a bit more in tune with what info and when Lando needs to know. Also Will’s info is concise and his recommendations are clear. So much better imo than last year during stressful races.

If I’d been given a transcript of Lando and Max’s radio calls, without being able to hear the voices, I’d have said they’d gotten them mixed up. McLaren are improving in all these aspects, while Red Bull seems to be slipping back in all of them.

Edited by pup, 30 March 2025 - 16:44.


#2331 miso

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Posted 31 March 2025 - 08:13

I’m going to be so happy when F1 fans get bored with ‘generational’, as if it meant anything to begin with.

 

I won't be satisfied until there are 22 exceptional, generational aliens on the grid.  :yawnface:



#2332 1player

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Posted 31 March 2025 - 09:19

I’m going to be so happy when F1 fans get bored with ‘generational’, as if it meant anything to begin with.

We live in a world of hyperbole and chasing highs. Either you are literally the Greatest Of All Time, or you're constantly reminded that you are not, by people sitting in their couch eating popcorn. Cannot support a driver without having to suffer the "but he's no Verstappen, is he?" discussion.



#2333 Alfisti

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Posted 31 March 2025 - 14:23

I’m going to be so happy when F1 fans get bored with ‘generational’, as if it meant anything to begin with.

 

 

I'm sorry but this is just bullsh**

 

 

We live in a world of hyperbole and chasing highs. Either you are literally the Greatest Of All Time, or you're constantly reminded that you are not, by people sitting in their couch eating popcorn. Cannot support a driver without having to suffer the "but he's no Verstappen, is he?" discussion.

 

Man people are sensitive souls, reminder the man I support (Piastri) is on my list of potentially excellent but not a freak of nature. Since I have watched the sport (1993) we have had Michael, Alonso, Lewis and Max, let's include Vettel  due to 4 WDC but he's an edge case. It was damn near immediate, all of them, within a season you could see it, you could see the relentless pace or the one race where they pulled off something really magical. It is super unusual, it doesn't happen often. 

 

Lando/Russel/Leclerc are all fantastic drivers, well deserving of a WDC if they win one but they are in that next group with your Hakkinen, Rosberg, Button, DC, Montoya, Hill etc group that is much larger. Where that second group starts and ends is up for discussion (Rubens could be in there, Webber damn near won a WDC and then there's Kimi too). 

Point being all those guys need or needed a car advantage to beat the freaks of nature if in their prime and right now we have one freak of nature in their prime. I think those three drivers right now (Leclerc/Lando/Norris) all beat an ageing Lewis and Alonso right now in the same car. The good news for the sport is the top 4 drivers are in the top 4 teams which means we should be in for some good fights. The odd man out is Lando, of the 4 top guys he is unlucky to have a fast young man in the other car who can be a real pest at times. Leclerc has to deal with a guy that can be an animal on race day but he really should be starting in front of him 75% of the time. 


Edited by Alfisti, 31 March 2025 - 14:27.


#2334 miso

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Posted 31 March 2025 - 22:23

Cannot support a driver without having to suffer the "but he's no Verstappen, is he?" discussion.


This is the issue, not people being overly sensitive. It's the McLaren thread, not the why Max is better than the McLaren drivers thread.

#2335 kumo7

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Posted 31 March 2025 - 23:06

This is the issue, not people being overly sensitive. It's the McLaren thread, not the why Max is better than the McLaren drivers thread.


I personally think that we can talk about anything in a thread, as long as each post is relevant to the thread.
a thread is an collective efforts to build up knowledge about something. because it is written by many posters, it risks being dispersed, worse than that, to lose the topic.
on the contrary, building up one thought by many is exciting.

as long as taking about “Max” is not a personal defensive act or the off topic, but if talking about Max brings a clarity, then fine.
I saw Max in chat with Zak on youtube. He was actively flirting. He may fancy McLaren team above Ferrari. This thoughts give me a pleasure, because I know McLaren currently already has a great combination. McLaren decided not to go for Newey. It is the same. at least for now.

#2336 Mc_Silver

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Posted Yesterday, 09:08

A letter from Zak

https://www.mclaren....from-zak-brown/

#2337 jensfan09

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Posted Yesterday, 12:48

That actually got me a bit teary eyed!! lol

 

Never Stop Racing!!



#2338 Nicktendo86

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Posted Yesterday, 15:44

Oh thank god, thought it might have been bad news

#2339 Mc_Silver

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Posted Yesterday, 16:48

https://www.instagra...g_web_copy_link

A lovely little story for you guys!

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#2340 kumo7

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Posted Yesterday, 17:12

Lovely, lovely development towards the exciting Japanese Grand Prix. Let's go McLaren, show off what we have got!