Jump to content


Photo
* * * * - 8 votes

Scuderia Ferrari 2025 team thread


  • Please log in to reply
6181 replies to this topic

#5251 Dalton007

Dalton007
  • Member

  • 7,416 posts
  • Joined: April 04

Posted 19 April 2025 - 20:48

Lewis just proves that adaptability is a myth. Every driver has a one weak spot with regulations/tyres/cars combo, that with your driving style you really can't adapt. If your carrer is 20 years long, there is high probability the sometime in your career regulations will come that you can't compensate or adapt.  It's just a pure luck when will it hit you. Imagine what would happen with Kimi if Michelin never left F1.

 

I don't have a single doubt if you put Lewis in Mclaren 2008 he would deliver the same performance as he was then.

 

True, and it gets harder at his age. 



Advertisement

#5252 Trust

Trust
  • Member

  • 5,188 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 19 April 2025 - 20:49

In 2008 Lewis was against Massa and his teammate was Kovalainen.

It doesn't really matter. In 2007 he was with Alonso.



#5253 vlado

vlado
  • Member

  • 6,205 posts
  • Joined: September 06

Posted 19 April 2025 - 20:53

Dunno. This is a great car, but to say it's dominant is a bit premature. But he will give him  a run for his money IMO. 
But against Max in RBR I think he would be crash and burn. 
He is against Charlie which should be a bit easier than against Max, but worse than Piastri. Charlie is one tough customer. 

 

Let's wait and see I guess but the signs of it being on the dominant side are all there thus far but things could change over the course of the season. 

 

LEC and VER are probably the toughest teammates you can ask for currently.  



#5254 PretentiousBread

PretentiousBread
  • Member

  • 2,922 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 19 April 2025 - 20:53

Lewis just proves that adaptability is a myth. Every driver has a one weak spot with regulations/tyres/cars combo, that with your driving style you really can't adapt. If your carrer is 20 years long, there is high probability the sometime in your career regulations will come that you can't compensate or adapt.  It's just a pure luck when will it hit you. Imagine what would happen with Kimi if Michelin never left F1.

 

I don't have a single doubt if you put Lewis in Mclaren 2008 he would deliver the same performance as he was then.

 

Instinctively this feels true to me, although it is a bit coincidental that Hamilton loses performance in unsuitable regs that happen to land right at the end of his career. Maybe it is a genuine coincidence, I don't know. In the past I've also argued like yourself that age is overstated when assessing the decline of a sportsman, particularly in F1, but now I'm of that age myself I buy into it a bit more. You do lose something, your perspective changes, things that once meant everything to you seem less critical. It's a change in feeling and mindset and it's an inevitable part of life.



#5255 vlado

vlado
  • Member

  • 6,205 posts
  • Joined: September 06

Posted 19 April 2025 - 20:55

Waste of money - should have kept Sainz.

 

maybe they can get him back.

 

What money? The publicity Ferrari got with this deal far exceeds the monetary value of it. 

 

Not to mention all that merchandise sold.  



#5256 Trust

Trust
  • Member

  • 5,188 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 19 April 2025 - 21:02

Instinctively this feels true to me, although it is a bit coincidental that Hamilton loses performance in unsuitable regs that happen to land right at the end of his career. Maybe it is a genuine coincidence, I don't know. In the past I've also argued like yourself that age is overstated when assessing the decline of a sportsman, particularly in F1, but now I'm of that age myself I buy into it a bit more. You do lose something, your perspective changes, things that once meant everything to you seem less critical. It's a change in feeling and mindset and it's an inevitable part of life.

Take Seb Vettel for example. I really don't think it was coincidence back in those years when he was driving beautifully in 09-13, then getting Ricardoed in 2014. What was happening back then ? We had consistent regulations for that 09-13 period and new regulations coming in 2014. 

Was Vettel old by 2014? I think not. I don't think the results between that pair would be any similar if regulations stayed for even that 14' year, or if maybe Riccardo joined RB a year early. I really don't think Vettel would get Riccardoed. 

And I'm saying all of these by not being Vettel's fan.

 

Just imagine what would happen if regulations didn't change. This would also explain those discussions when people argue why some drivers have shorter peaks, some longer, or why some driver blossom early in carrer, but then his fire goes out quite quickly., or some getting that peek a bit later but lasting longer? 

 

You can argue that with age maybe you lose something, but when you see driver struggling with car, complaining like Lewis, or Vettel, or Riccardo in his McLaren years, this perfectly explains it. 

 

For years I had only two drivers that were a benchmark for adaptability, and those are Lewis and Alonso. Lewis Hamilton was my number 1. But now, I really think pure luck has more to do with adaptability then anything else.


Edited by Trust, 19 April 2025 - 21:06.


#5257 F1Lurker

F1Lurker
  • Member

  • 2,017 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 19 April 2025 - 21:13

I don't think it's about something intrinsic to Lewis and his adaptability. He's just getting old like any other sports person. Look at Serena Williams or Roger Federer, no regulation change there. A 25 year old Hamilton would do magic in the Ferrari. Do you think Max will perform the same at 35, much less 40?

#5258 KWSN - DSM

KWSN - DSM
  • Member

  • 40,805 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 19 April 2025 - 21:17

I think up to and about 35 the drivers are peak, then an ever so slightly trend downwards, still very, very good drivers - But the upper, upper, most needed edge are no longer there, they lose the limits if their ultimate pace, especially on qualifying laps.

 

Hamilton have passed his peak.

Alonso have passed his peak.

Hulkenberg have passed his peak.



#5259 Trust

Trust
  • Member

  • 5,188 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 19 April 2025 - 21:20

I don't think it's about something intrinsic to Lewis and his adaptability. He's just getting old like any other sports person. Look at Serena Williams or Roger Federer, no regulation change there. A 25 year old Hamilton would do magic in the Ferrari. Do you think Max will perform the same at 35, much less 40?

Nowdays, regulations are getting changed much less frequently than before. Lewis was driving most of the time with stable regulations. I do think if you put these regulations in 2007 or 2008 with these Pirelli ****-tyres, you would get same kind of perfromance with a young Lewis still struggling in qualifying. 

 

Max is undoubtedly generational talent, but teammate wise he had pretty low quality teammates with an exception of Ricciardo. He is also driving in this era with a very stable regulations and consistently pathetic Pirelli. I really would like to see Bridgestone or big switch in F1 regulations, to see would he bring the same performance.

 

I really think he also has a weak spot, it's just we haven't discover it still. And maybe we will never will. Something tells me he'll retire from F1 a bit early compared to others, which is also fine.


Edited by Trust, 19 April 2025 - 21:21.


Advertisement

#5260 vlado

vlado
  • Member

  • 6,205 posts
  • Joined: September 06

Posted 19 April 2025 - 21:24

I am sure the team boss will sing the same "things are tight" "we didn't extract everything from the package" song but I think this year LEC is calling it as it is and I am more inclined to believe him over Frédéric Vasseur. 

 

"We had high expectations on this track, that's why we're disappointed. It's the confirmation that we lack potential."

 

 

:up: 

 

From that outside, in my opinion, that confirmation came in Japan, but they obviously know exactly what they were looking for so... there it is I guess. 


Edited by vlado, 19 April 2025 - 21:24.


#5261 PretentiousBread

PretentiousBread
  • Member

  • 2,922 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 19 April 2025 - 21:27

Nowdays, regulations are getting changed much less frequently than before. Lewis was driving most of the time with stable regulations. I do think if you put these regulations in 2007 or 2008 with these Pirelli ****-tyres, you would get same kind of perfromance with a young Lewis still struggling in qualifying. 

 

Max is undoubtedly generational talent, but teammate wise he had pretty low quality teammates with an exception of Ricciardo. He is also driving in this era with a very stable regulations and consistently pathetic Pirelli. I really would like to see Bridgestone or big switch in F1 regulations, to see would he bring the same performance.

 

I really think he also has a weak spot, it's just we haven't discover it still. And maybe we will never will. Something tells me he'll retire from F1 a bit early compared to others, which is also fine.

 

Not to overstate things, but I regard Pirelli's effect on F1 to be nothing short of a tragedy. I want to live in the alternate universe where Hamilton spent his whole career pushing the limits of Bridgestones or Michelins, not coaxing Pirellis. What a waste.



#5262 Bliman

Bliman
  • Member

  • 11,290 posts
  • Joined: April 16

Posted 19 April 2025 - 21:36

It's surprised and disappointed me also. I've watched Hamilton since the start and I bought into the hype that he was the most naturally gifted and adaptable driver on the grid. Maybe he wasn't. Either way, it's disappointing and it downgrades him in my eyes. I spent years rebuking Button fans for making excuses for his low adaptability, citing this as Hamilton's main strength. So if he's simply unable to sync with these cars, what does that say about his adaptability?

That everyone suffers if they are in a car they don't like. I don't think there are any exceptions to this.

#5263 Bliman

Bliman
  • Member

  • 11,290 posts
  • Joined: April 16

Posted 19 April 2025 - 21:40

Instinctively this feels true to me, although it is a bit coincidental that Hamilton loses performance in unsuitable regs that happen to land right at the end of his career. Maybe it is a genuine coincidence, I don't know. In the past I've also argued like yourself that age is overstated when assessing the decline of a sportsman, particularly in F1, but now I'm of that age myself I buy into it a bit more. You do lose something, your perspective changes, things that once meant everything to you seem less critical. It's a change in feeling and mindset and it's an inevitable part of life.

But that is mental and hasn't anything to do with adaptability.

#5264 F1Lurker

F1Lurker
  • Member

  • 2,017 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 19 April 2025 - 22:01

Not to overstate things, but I regard Pirelli's effect on F1 to be nothing short of a tragedy. I want to live in the alternate universe where Hamilton spent his whole career pushing the limits of Bridgestones or Michelins, not coaxing Pirellis. What a waste.

Sometimes I think we are too hard on Pirelli (I myself have slagged them off many times). The cars are much heavier than cars of the past, with more downforce, engine power, and speed. Maybe other tyre manufacturers would have the same struggles.



#5265 prty

prty
  • Member

  • 8,824 posts
  • Joined: April 05

Posted 19 April 2025 - 22:16

Lewis just proves that adaptability is a myth.

The logic behind that statement is hilarious.

Alonso for example drove well under every regulation so far, and it has been a few.

Edited by prty, 19 April 2025 - 22:19.


#5266 Bliman

Bliman
  • Member

  • 11,290 posts
  • Joined: April 16

Posted 19 April 2025 - 22:27

The logic behind that statement is hilarious.

Alonso for example drove well under every regulation so far, and it has been a few.

Driving well is different than adapting and extracting everything from a car. So no it makes perfect sense.

#5267 KPower

KPower
  • Member

  • 371 posts
  • Joined: March 21

Posted 19 April 2025 - 22:41

The logic behind that statement is hilarious.

Alonso for example drove well under every regulation so far, and it has been a few.

 

We really don't know how Alonso looks to be fair. I think he'd be just as far, if not further off Leclerc in qualifying than Hamilton. Same if he was going against Russell.


Edited by KPower, 19 April 2025 - 22:41.


#5268 ferrarista

ferrarista
  • Member

  • 4,177 posts
  • Joined: April 04

Posted 19 April 2025 - 23:03

The chassis/suspension department is again apparently the responsible of this performance.

For next year, I take (a bit of) comfort that Serra and more new engineers will have the possibility to express their potential; this car still has the DNA of Cardile’s concept, in fact suspensions and chassis were signed off when he was still there.

The PU did his job today on the straights, considering how loose the traction was, it actually looked as powerful as ever and from this I take again some (small) comfort for next year.

I don’t know what to hope about this year development, if to develop or not.
I think they are giving some more push for a last big package around Spain, but I would not be surprised if they decide to go all in for 2026 if tomorrow race doesn’t show anything to hope for.

#5269 nemanja

nemanja
  • Member

  • 3,080 posts
  • Joined: April 14

Posted 19 April 2025 - 23:14

The chassis/suspension department is again apparently the responsible of this performance.

For next year, I take (a bit of) comfort that Serra and more new engineers will have the possibility to express their potential; this car still has the DNA of Cardile’s concept, in fact suspensions and chassis were signed off when he was still there.

The PU did his job today on the straights, considering how loose the traction was, it actually looked as powerful as ever and from this I take again some (small) comfort for next year.

I don’t know what to hope about this year development, if to develop or not.
I think they are giving some more push for a last big package around Spain, but I would not be surprised if they decide to go all in for 2026 if tomorrow race doesn’t show anything to hope for.

Even here, they are not low to the ground as they should be. Just look at the RB and McLaren scraping the floor constantly.



#5270 PretentiousBread

PretentiousBread
  • Member

  • 2,922 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 19 April 2025 - 23:16

Nice to see you back PretentiousBread...I haven't seen you on here for years! :wave:

 

I agree with some of what you say however I don't agree that Lewis will retire this year...I think he will give next year a go just to see how he gets on with the new regs. I certainly hope he does...I don't want Lewis's F1 career to end on a whimper.

 

Sorry I missed this - thank you Coral, and nice to see old names like yours still on here. I've been a fairly casual F1 follower since I last posted (11 years ago, lol) and my knowledge isn't what it once was. I'm not holding out much hope for next year's regs, but you and others make a good point that it's worth Hamilton sticking around for them. Honestly if this pattern continues into those regs though, I feel it's best for him to retire. 

 

In the intervening years between my posting I became a huge Roger Federer fan, and witnessed a return to glory for him in 2017 where he dominated the tour, his nemesis Nadal, and won 2 majors. My slender hope is Hamilton might also have an Indian summer to his career. We shall see.



#5271 Ultravox

Ultravox
  • Member

  • 265 posts
  • Joined: December 24

Posted 19 April 2025 - 23:28

It's surprised and disappointed me also. I've watched Hamilton since the start and I bought into the hype that he was the most naturally gifted and adaptable driver on the grid. Maybe he wasn't. Either way, it's disappointing and it downgrades him in my eyes. I spent years rebuking Button fans for making excuses for his low adaptability, citing this as Hamilton's main strength. So if he's simply unable to sync with these cars, what does that say about his adaptability?

 

You are downgrading a 40 year old driver? Thats silly. Its like downgrading Michael in his 40s. Lewis is just past it. I think Alonso is actually aging better. 



#5272 ferrarista

ferrarista
  • Member

  • 4,177 posts
  • Joined: April 04

Posted 19 April 2025 - 23:33

Even here, they are not low to the ground as they should be. Just look at the RB and McLaren scraping the floor constantly.

Possible nemanja, but Lec lost 3 tenths in T1-2, slow speed there, then he is on par with the pole sitter in the rest of the lap and is practically the fastest in the last corner, again (long) slow speed corner.

This means ride height could not be a so big issue as suspension set up instead was.

https://www.pitdebri...udi-arabian-gp/

When I read what Charles says, I get mad at him, firstly because he has only himself to blame if he set himself for disappointment for a pole that was never on the cards and secondly because he doesn’t explain that the gap is all in the first two corners and why it is like that.

The fact that the gap is all there is an anomaly that nobody cared to explain to us idiots who are still here following their defeats.
Or no, maybe they don’t need to tell us what we know from ages regarding the chassis/suspension department of Ferrari.

Edited by ferrarista, 19 April 2025 - 23:35.


#5273 Claudius

Claudius
  • Member

  • 5,672 posts
  • Joined: December 02

Posted 19 April 2025 - 23:57

It’s the Mercedes scenario once again.
Let’s see how the race goes tomorrow.

#5274 vlado

vlado
  • Member

  • 6,205 posts
  • Joined: September 06

Posted 20 April 2025 - 00:01

It’s the Mercedes scenario once again.
Let’s see how the race goes tomorrow.


In general the races have gone better than qualifying so maybe a podium if LEC does a decent start … or something

#5275 beachdrifter

beachdrifter
  • Member

  • 7,444 posts
  • Joined: November 17

Posted 20 April 2025 - 00:25

I think it's fair to call the Ferrari the 4th fastest car this season.

 

And the step forward Lewis thought he may have discovered after the last GP turned out to be fool's gold.

 

It's looking bleak, right now.



#5276 STRFerrari4Ever

STRFerrari4Ever
  • Member

  • 15,737 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 20 April 2025 - 00:52

Our only hope is staying in the DRS of Russell as we have a higher top speed than the Mercedes and Piastri. Not sure how the tyre degradation will be but hopefully we have an edge on our competitors, certainly a repeat of the second stint performance from last weekend would be welcome in the race tomorrow.

#5277 Wuzak

Wuzak
  • Member

  • 9,083 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 20 April 2025 - 02:34

I think it's fair to call the Ferrari the 4th fastest car this season.

 

And the step forward Lewis thought he may have discovered after the last GP turned out to be fool's gold.

 

It's looking bleak, right now.

 

If you take Max out of the Red Bull, would Ferrari still be the 4th fastest car?



#5278 Wuzak

Wuzak
  • Member

  • 9,083 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 20 April 2025 - 02:40

Unfortunately Ferrari doesn't have a great track record on new engine rules. I expect them to be on the backfoot to at least Mercedes (and thus mercedes powered cars) next year. Anything better would be a welcome suprise!

 

Apart from 2014, when did they fail on new engine rules?

 

The current ICE is probably the best, so they should be OK for 2026.



#5279 AlexS

AlexS
  • Member

  • 6,845 posts
  • Joined: September 03

Posted 20 April 2025 - 03:50

Our only hope is staying in the DRS of Russell as we have a higher top speed than the Mercedes and Piastri. Not sure how the tyre degradation will be but hopefully we have an edge on our competitors, certainly a repeat of the second stint performance from last weekend would be welcome in the race tomorrow.

 That depends on tires, i don't think we have been good with hards this season.



Advertisement

#5280 Muppetmad

Muppetmad
  • Member

  • 13,235 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 20 April 2025 - 03:50

Just as various comments across the forum suggesting Leclerc was being "found out" in China were premature, so too are the criticisms of Hamilton here now. Sure, he has pace to find and needs to find it sooner rather than later, but these sorts of swings in form between races have been fairly common in this formula.



#5281 gillesfan76

gillesfan76
  • Member

  • 10,322 posts
  • Joined: July 16

Posted 20 April 2025 - 04:21

I think it is also the case that the way F1 has developed with big and heavy cars and tyres doesn't suit his style, so it's hard to identify his "true" prime. Could be as far back as 2012, or 2014.

 

Disagree. I think you’re thinking of the Lewis that could hustle cars and dance them on a knife edge and I agree with you there, that was an incredible version of Lewis. Then Mercedes figured out that he’s very good in high speed but not the greatest, but he’s the greatest in low speed. So they kept increasing the wheelbase, kept low rake to give him a high downforce stable platform in high speed and relied on his ability to compensate for the low speed deficiency of the car with his extraordinary ability to provoke an non-reactive car, then control on the edge and rotate the car in low speed. Lewis could make use of the stability in high speed, but force it to dance in the low speed. Because, lap time is made up in low speed corners.

 

As an interesting aside, I think Red Bull equally harnessed Verstappen’s strengths in the opposite way. Because I think Max is very good in low speed, but I don’t think he’s the greatest. But he’s the greatest in high speed. So they gave him a car with high rake, that was very reactive in low speed to help him in those sections and relied on his ability to compensate for the instability at high speed, that deficiency of the car with his extraordinary ability to feel and hold it on the knife edge without losing control. Max could dance the agile car in low speed but still hold onto it in high speed. Because lap time is made up in low speed corners.

 

This is why as both Mercedes and Red Bull figured out a design philosophy for their respective lead drivers, it became hard for their team mates to keep up. The Mercedes was too lethargic in low speed for Valtteri so he would force setup to make it more agile there. He was good enough to generally cope with the relative negative effect that introduced in high speed but would suffer with rears wearing or overheating during the race because of that. Similarly, with Max’s team mates they couldn’t live with the instability at high speed so would force setup to calm the car down in high speed but which would degrade its rotation in low speed. So their team mates were always trying to force setup away from the car’s inherent strengths, which suited the lead drivers, but not them. The saving grace in that era though, was at least the cars had a reasonable window that could allow for different setups. But it does demonstrate that even with a wider window, when you combine a car design philosophy that matches the strengths and minimises the relative weaknesses of a very talented driver, then you have an extremely strong package. The only way to have both drivers in the same team maximise it is by putting in two drivers with similar strengths and weaknesses in that regard.

 

The results with Hamilton since 2022, and especially now, are stark because now he is that team mates. If he sets the car up for high speed stability, he is unable to provoke the rear in a controllable way to rotate. It’s either lethargic and understeers, and if he tries too hard, it snaps in low speed and loses time. The sudden shift in floor downforce as he tries to provoke isn’t working for him. If he sets it up for front end bite, it’s too unstable for him in high speed. This is how Charles is starting to set it up and finding lap time, at least relative to Lewis. In this regard I think Max and Charles’ styles are actually very similar. Unless they are team mates, it would be impossible to say who can handle the high speed instability better but would be a fascinating battle. Conversely, even regardless of age I think if you give them all a car that has is stable at high speed but lethargic at low speed (but not unpredictable when provoking controlled instability to aid rotation), then I think Lewis wipes the floor with all of them.

 

It’s fascinating because you never really know what a driver’s weaknesses are until he’s put in a situation which exposes it. Contrary to some of his fans’ belief, Lewis has never been a perfect driver even at his peak. But I don’t think any of them including Max is. It’s only if they stay around long enough across different regulations and eras that the probability of such increases. When it’s a great driver, with very few weaknesses and considerable strengths, then only a specific circumstance is likely to expose it. I think that’s what we’ve seen here with these cars with a very narrow operating window and characteristic that misaligns with Lewis’s characteristics. I think he would have still been exposed 10 years ago.


Edited by gillesfan76, 20 April 2025 - 04:25.


#5282 gillesfan76

gillesfan76
  • Member

  • 10,322 posts
  • Joined: July 16

Posted 20 April 2025 - 04:46

Stella felt the current generation of F1 cars was "too fast to think", meaning a driver needs to be fully at one with the machine to drive it on instinct, because there is no time to second guess how it will behave.

 

"These cars are so fast, they are so demanding in terms of just adopting a very natural driving style," he explained.

 

"We hear this even from Hamilton, a seven-time world champion, and yet he talks about driving the car in a natural way, because these cars are too fast to think.

 

"You either get what you anticipate from the car, or you're going to be slow, and Lando doesn't accept to be slow.

 

"So, it's our responsibility to make sure that we give him a car that is at the level of his talent, and to try and correct this behaviour, because we want Lando to be confident and comfortable that he can push the car."

 

 

 

But most of us tend to ignore this and just assume that a great driver can extract maximum, or at least close to maximum lap time, out of a car that has a narrow peak and drops away drastically in pace the moment you set it up even slightly outside of that peak. Max is an incredible driver, already a great, but if we have a regulation set that forces a car design and setup that inherently understeers and that’s the only way to maximise its lap time (imagine if you will something like the 2005/2006 Renault of Alonso but even much faster) and there’s a very particular way to drive it, then I think he’s going to struggle if you put him against someone like Alonso who is incredible at the way he not only feels grip through the steering wheel, but also utilises the steering inputs to read, provoke, react and control the car in a very specific way and for which those characteristics that Verstappen hates and finds unnatural are the same that Alonso is perfectly at home with. He will either be forced to overdrive it against his natural feeling and crash, or under drive it leaving lap time on the table.



#5283 chapilinux

chapilinux
  • Member

  • 193 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 20 April 2025 - 04:48

We really don't know how Alonso looks to be fair. I think he'd be just as far, if not further off Leclerc in qualifying than Hamilton. Same if he was going against Russell.


Conclusion based on your likes and dislikes? Seems legit then.

#5284 vlado

vlado
  • Member

  • 6,205 posts
  • Joined: September 06

Posted 20 April 2025 - 05:27

Possible nemanja, but Lec lost 3 tenths in T1-2, slow speed there, then he is on par with the pole sitter in the rest of the lap and is practically the fastest in the last corner, again (long) slow speed corner.

This means ride height could not be a so big issue as suspension set up instead was.

https://www.pitdebri...udi-arabian-gp/

When I read what Charles says, I get mad at him, firstly because he has only himself to blame if he set himself for disappointment for a pole that was never on the cards and secondly because he doesn’t explain that the gap is all in the first two corners and why it is like that.

The fact that the gap is all there is an anomaly that nobody cared to explain to us idiots who are still here following their defeats.
Or no, maybe they don’t need to tell us what we know from ages regarding the chassis/suspension department of Ferrari.

 

Is this the quote?

 

 

I’m not satisfied at all—actually, I’m very disappointed overall, because when you do everything possible with the car and end up fourth, it’s just frustrating and disappointing. But that’s what the car is capable of right now. I can play with the limits, go from understeer to oversteer, but in the end, we just don’t have enough grip to go into some corners with the same speed our rivals can. We need to analyze this. I’m disappointed because we expected more from a track like this.
 
Today confirms we’re lacking overall potential. I’m happy on my end, because I’ve found a direction that lets me extract the most out of the car every time in qualifying. But it makes it extremely tough—if you look at my quali lap, I think I almost ended up in the wall two or three times. At the moment, I feel good in the car. I think I’ve found the car’s sweet spot that fits my driving style. I feel like over the last three qualifyings, I’ve been able to maximize the car’s potential—but that potential isn’t yet at the level I want.

 

 

I don't really see how much more he an give us at this point.. 
 
tried everything they know how to try and almost crashed to get 4th, car has nothing left in it 


#5285 TheAviator

TheAviator
  • Member

  • 3,239 posts
  • Joined: October 20

Posted 20 April 2025 - 06:55

Take Seb Vettel for example. I really don't think it was coincidence back in those years when he was driving beautifully in 09-13, then getting Ricardoed in 2014. What was happening back then ? We had consistent regulations for that 09-13 period and new regulations coming in 2014.
Was Vettel old by 2014? I think not. I don't think the results between that pair would be any similar if regulations stayed for even that 14' year, or if maybe Riccardo joined RB a year early. I really don't think Vettel would get Riccardoed.
And I'm saying all of these by not being Vettel's fan.

Just imagine what would happen if regulations didn't change. This would also explain those discussions when people argue why some drivers have shorter peaks, some longer, or why some driver blossom early in carrer, but then his fire goes out quite quickly., or some getting that peek a bit later but lasting longer?

You can argue that with age maybe you lose something, but when you see driver struggling with car, complaining like Lewis, or Vettel, or Riccardo in his McLaren years, this perfectly explains it.

For years I had only two drivers that were a benchmark for adaptability, and those are Lewis and Alonso. Lewis Hamilton was my number 1. But now, I really think pure luck has more to do with adaptability then anything else.

I dunno, I think Max would adopt to anything.

Lewis had better car throughout hies career then anyone ever really. Not saying Lewis is not adoptable or not deservedly 7xWDC, just that objectively he almost exclusively drove WDC or at least race winning cars up until now.

#5286 TheAviator

TheAviator
  • Member

  • 3,239 posts
  • Joined: October 20

Posted 20 April 2025 - 07:02

If you take Max out of the Red Bull, would Ferrari still be the 4th fastest car?

If you take Leclerc out, likely yes.

#5287 Laptom

Laptom
  • Member

  • 2,799 posts
  • Joined: August 16

Posted 20 April 2025 - 07:11

Nowdays, regulations are getting changed much less frequently than before. Lewis was driving most of the time with stable regulations. I do think if you put these regulations in 2007 or 2008 with these Pirelli ****-tyres, you would get same kind of perfromance with a young Lewis still struggling in qualifying.

Max is undoubtedly generational talent, but teammate wise he had pretty low quality teammates with an exception of Ricciardo. He is also driving in this era with a very stable regulations and consistently pathetic Pirelli. I really would like to see Bridgestone or big switch in F1 regulations, to see would he bring the same performance.

I really think he also has a weak spot, it's just we haven't discover it still. And maybe we will never will. Something tells me he'll retire from F1 a bit early compared to others, which is also fine.


Ask the Ferrari GT3 team principle how adaptive Max is.

Off course he will have a weak spot, he mentioned by himself that he doesn't like the Nascar and Indycar type of cars. And in F1 he doesn't like the current type of cars characteristics and tyres.
I think for all drivers it is a motivation type of issue how adaptive they are.

#5288 ferrarista

ferrarista
  • Member

  • 4,177 posts
  • Joined: April 04

Posted 20 April 2025 - 07:11


Is this the quote?




I don't really see how much more he an give us at this point..

tried everything they know how to try and almost crashed to get 4th, car has nothing left in it

No, nobody has explained how they are able to lose 3 tenths in the first two corners and then not losing practically anything in the rest of the lap.

Then, he acts and is disappointed as if pole was possible, when it was never on the cards.

So I don’t understand why he looked so downbeat, he is there since 2019, he should be used to it.

#5289 krea

krea
  • Member

  • 2,782 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 20 April 2025 - 07:28

I dunno, I think Max would adopt to anything.

Lewis had better car throughout hies career then anyone ever really. Not saying Lewis is not adoptable or not deservedly 7xWDC, just that objectively he almost exclusively drove WDC or at least race winning cars up until now.

He enjoyed the longest phase of a dominating team of all drivers in history. Could have won 8 titles in a row without too many stars to have aligned for it is some incredible feat for a team and driver.

But it doesn’t necessarily tell us about him being highly adaptable, when his performance with the new regs is quite mixed in two teams.

Edited by krea, 20 April 2025 - 07:29.


#5290 lewislorenzo

lewislorenzo
  • Member

  • 5,286 posts
  • Joined: March 14

Posted 20 April 2025 - 07:34

I dunno, I think Max would adopt to anything.

Not an inherently understeering car. No driver is perfect

But it doesn’t necessarily tell us about him being highly adaptable, when his performance with the new regs is quite mixed in two teams.

He has still won races in these new regs and had many good performances. Only these last 2 years he has been awful in qualifying vs George and Charles who are phenomenal in quali

You are downgrading a 40 year old driver? Thats silly. Its like downgrading Michael in his 40s. Lewis is just past it. I think Alonso is actually aging better.

Alonso is against Stroll so hard to tell. The guy is anonymous

Edited by lewislorenzo, 20 April 2025 - 07:42.


#5291 Lowgrip

Lowgrip
  • Member

  • 1,385 posts
  • Joined: June 21

Posted 20 April 2025 - 07:50

This is all on Hamilton.
He should have invested heavily on engineering performance and not rely only on his (new) team.

It is absolutely embarrassing to hear every time the com with his actual engineers about how and where he is losing time compared to Leclerc.
Their communication is not the greatest at the moment so it is would not be easy to relay or process information.

Something is missing and I also believe it has to do with simulators and how cars are now built. In the past the cars helped build the simulator but now it is the other way around and it just seems that the newer generation is much better at it.

Hadjar, Bearman, Antonelli would have done much better than Hamilton in qualifying I am sad to say.

The only way age might be detrimental is because of the engrained mechanics in your driving style that are difficult to erase , but we have seen Hamilton at Mercedes in 2023, 2024 was still lost in qualifying where it is all about instinct and not thinking.

I don’t know what he was thinking by going at Ferrari without engineers from Mercedes who would work for him and help him extract the maximum from the new car.

Alonso brought Stella with him at McLaren.
Verstappen will be with Lambiase wherever he will go.
Hamilton has made the same mistake we saw from Vettel and changed team(he needed a reset) believing only his talent alone would do.

He has failed his talent and it hurts even more because you know he is not slow (look at China or even race pace vs Leclerc) but just lost and unable to move forward.

It looks like he finishes a race, goes on holidays and does nothing between then and the next race to learn from Leclerc or work on the simulator. I don’t know exactly what happens between races but it looks like this. No progress so far.

Edited by Lowgrip, 20 April 2025 - 07:54.


#5292 gillesfan76

gillesfan76
  • Member

  • 10,322 posts
  • Joined: July 16

Posted 20 April 2025 - 08:32

He enjoyed the longest phase of a dominating team of all drivers in history. Could have won 8 titles in a row without too many stars to have aligned for it is some incredible feat for a team and driver.

But it doesn’t necessarily tell us about him being highly adaptable, when his performance with the new regs is quite mixed in two teams.

 

I think Lewis has adapted well to 2 different teams, 2 different tyres, and numerous regulation changes. Up until 2022 of course. I remember when Pirelli was introduced and he was widely thought of as a fast but aggressive tyre destroyer. While Jenson was thought of as a tyre whisperer. Lewis went on to have a reputation as a tyre whisperer himself. So the facts are that he has adapted well to many changes over a 15 year career up until 2022. The fact is also that he has so failed to adapt to this regulation change, and even if he somehow miraculously adapts this season, he’s been slow to adapt to it.

 

Highly adaptable? As I said, 2022 onwards proves not. But then again, they all seem great until they don’t. I remember reading the wide consensus in this forum during Vettel’s 4 years of domination that he was Senna reincarnated. Tost said he was just like Senna. The best driver since Schumacher. Marko creamed repeatedly. Vettel’s reputation steadily building up after winning “in that Toro Rosso”. Until he was exposed. Ricciardo looked amazing, until he didn’t. Alonso was a phenom, until he was beaten by a rookie.

 

We tend to overestimate drivers while they’re winning, and then proceed to underestimate their career, talent, skill and work ethic when the same drivers fail.



#5293 garoidb

garoidb
  • Member

  • 9,686 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 20 April 2025 - 08:33

I think Lewis has adapted well to 2 different teams, 2 different tyres, and numerous regulation changes. Up until 2022 of course. I remember when Pirelli was introduced and he was widely thought of as a fast but aggressive tyre destroyer. While Jenson was thought of as a tyre whisperer. Lewis went on to have a reputation as a tyre whisperer himself. So the facts are that he has adapted well to many changes over a 15 year career up until 2022. The fact is also that he has so failed to adapt to this regulation change, and even if he somehow miraculously adapts this season, he’s been slow to adapt to it.

 

Highly adaptable? As I said, 2022 onwards proves not. But then again, they all seem great until they don’t. I remember reading the wide consensus in this forum during Vettel’s 4 years of domination that he was Senna reincarnated. Tost said he was just like Senna. The best driver since Schumacher. Marko creamed repeatedly. Vettel’s reputation steadily building up after winning “in that Toro Rosso”. Until he was exposed. Ricciardo looked amazing, until he didn’t. Alonso was a phenom, until he was beaten by a rookie.

 

We tend to overestimate drivers while they’re winning, and then proceed to underestimate their career, talent, skill and work ethic when the same drivers fail.

 

You remember what?



#5294 garoidb

garoidb
  • Member

  • 9,686 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 20 April 2025 - 08:40

I don’t know what he was thinking by going at Ferrari without engineers from Mercedes who would work for him and help him extract the maximum from the new car.

 

Those engineers would have suspected that Lewis will only drive a few more years, and it could be as little as two. It's hard to get someone to leave their position, uproot their life and move to another country for that. It's different for a younger driver who might spend a decade in a new team - Schumacher was there 11 years and Alonso and Vettel were five each (but expected more). Lewis is likely to be there two or three years IMO.



#5295 STRFerrari4Ever

STRFerrari4Ever
  • Member

  • 15,737 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 20 April 2025 - 08:50


Is this the quote?




I don't really see how much more he an give us at this point..

tried everything they know how to try and almost crashed to get 4th, car has nothing left in it


The only saving grace is that with Charles knowing this is all the car is capable of he will do his best and live with the results, I think he’s over the false promises and claims from his team. It sucks because it feels like constant purgatory for a guy as talented as him.

Ferrari remind me of my other sporting team, Manchester United. Both are historically successful and dominant, have incredible resources behind them but the failure to win again is embarrassing and almost feels like they’ll be in this predicament for decades to come.

#5296 RedRabbit

RedRabbit
  • Member

  • 3,914 posts
  • Joined: August 12

Posted 20 April 2025 - 08:57

When Alonso left Ferrari there was a big upheaval going on, and Stella wasn't happy about the change.

Vettel left a team that had just beaten Ferrari 4 times in a row. Nobody is leaving that environment.

#5297 DeKnyff

DeKnyff
  • Member

  • 6,407 posts
  • Joined: November 13

Posted 20 April 2025 - 09:00

I remember reading the wide consensus in this forum during Vettel’s 4 years of domination that he was Senna reincarnated.

 

I don't remember that happening. As I remember it, the general consensus was that, while no one doubted he was a top tier driver, he generally had a clear car advantage.



#5298 Bliman

Bliman
  • Member

  • 11,290 posts
  • Joined: April 16

Posted 20 April 2025 - 09:15

I don't remember that happening. As I remember it, the general consensus was that, while no one doubted he was a top tier driver, he generally had a clear car advantage.

He was regarded as a super driver that was unbeatable with the double diffuser. In the meanwhile Alonso was bitter and was constantly trying to pick on Vettel.

#5299 P123

P123
  • Member

  • 25,518 posts
  • Joined: February 09

Posted 20 April 2025 - 09:28

I don't remember that happening. As I remember it, the general consensus was that, while no one doubted he was a top tier driver, he generally had a clear car advantage.

 

There was both.  Even DC (albeit a Red Bull guy) was stating that SV was the greatest of all time.  Nods to the car were never met well!  The popular narrative back in 2017 when he led the championship was that he'd pull away come the flyaway races, which was an opinion largely based on the Red Bull years.  Never happened, and I'd say that is where his general rep took a hit from previous anointments as Top 10 of all timer. 

 

As for Lewis and his struggles, I'd say the current era of cars is somewhat overplayed given he was best of the rest behind the dominant Red Bulls in 2023.  He can drive them perfectly well.  It's tyres.  He can't drive a proper quali lap- it was that way the majority of last year and into this.  Age will be a factor too.  None of the likes of Max, Charles, George are slower than Rosberg, Vettel, Button, Alonso... and these guys are now in their prime.  Lewis simply isn't.  There is still some speed in there, but it doesn't come easy. 



Advertisement

#5300 ferrarista

ferrarista
  • Member

  • 4,177 posts
  • Joined: April 04

Posted 20 April 2025 - 09:28

https://x.com/F1BigD...671840868016378

9th fastest team in T1-2, horrible.

The writing was on the wall when I saw Lewis snapping the rear at the fast T6-7 in Bahrain day 1 of testing, where its all about aero-mechanical stability, nothing to do with dirty or not rubbered track.
At the time, it was said the car had a massive F1-75 like front end and it was just a matter of fine tuning the set up.
I preferred to believe that BS, instead of taking into account what was in front of me.

**** off to all the so-called experts, no championship winning car has ever had a loose rear end like that and poor Lewis and Charles who are forced to drive this **** of a car.

Edited by ferrarista, 20 April 2025 - 09:31.