25 replies to this topic

[FlyingSaucer]

I was reviewing some old TNF posts, due to some research I'm doing about Lotus 72, and I came across this thread: https://forums.autos...il#entry4461003

 

18 years after the original post, I ask if anyone has gotten any photos of the Lotus 72 painted in the colors of Café do Brasil's sponsorship. I looked all over the internet, and to this day there are no drawings, sketches or anything that could give an idea of ​​how this paintscheme was.

 

I would really like to see if there really is any photographic record of this, since I am Brazilian and such an image would generate a spectacular report, of an almost unknown case of the Brazilian motorsport 

[Gary C]

There is one photo I've seen of the car painted in Cafe do Brasil colours, I think it was taken at Monza.
In the meantime take a look at this:
www.lotus72dvd.com

[PeterElleray]

There is one photo I've seen of the car painted in Cafe do Brasil colours, I think it was taken at Monza.
In the meantime take a look at this:
www.lotus72dvd.com

The monza photo of a yellow 72 is actually the Jo Siffert owned ex Rob Walker 724 in Villiger colours when it was entered for Herbie Mueller in 1971, not in cafe do brasil colours.

[PeterElleray]

 

I was reviewing some old TNF posts, due to some research I'm doing about Lotus 72, and I came across this thread: https://forums.autos...il#entry4461003

 

18 years after the original post, I ask if anyone has gotten any photos of the Lotus 72 painted in the colors of Café do Brasil's sponsorship. I looked all over the internet, and to this day there are no drawings, sketches or anything that could give an idea of ​​how this paintscheme was.

 

I would really like to see if there really is any photographic record of this, since I am Brazilian and such an image would generate a spectacular report, of an almost unknown case of the Brazilian motorsport 

 

see my post above. i don't believe that a single picture has ever surfaced of emerson's rothmans 50000 entry in yellow and green, and like, you, i have been trying to find one for over 50 years. All of which makes me sceptical if the car ever got near a spray gun filled with yellow paint... the chassis in question was 725. this was emersons race car in the austrian gp, where it ran with a small auxiliary screen taped onto the usual plexiglass cockpit surround. the car at brands has this screen removed, but you can see where the tape has partially peeled away the gold pinstriping just below the standard 'screen'. so if the car really did get resprayed green or yellow, whoever then resprayed it black was very careful to add the belmish back ontop of the pin stripe when he had finished....

Edited by PeterElleray, 06 January 2025 - 19:45.

[Gary C]

Yes you're quite right Peter, that's the picture I'm thinking of.

[funformula]

Very interesting, I wasn´t aware of Herbert Müller racing a Lotus 72

 

[Gary C]

It never raced in those cours.

[funformula]

There is one odd detail on Fittipaldis Lotus 72 raced in the Rothmans 50000 race as the monocoque doesn´t carry a golden pinstripe which it normally does.

So it´s not totally impossible that this paint job from yellow to black could be done overnight as they "only" had to respray the monocoque section and replace all the body parts with spare JPS parts such as nose, wings and sidepods. Maybe there wasn´t enough time left to add the pinsripe to the monocoque?

[PeterElleray]

There is one odd detail on Fittipaldis Lotus 72 raced in the Rothmans 50000 race as the monocoque doesn´t carry a golden pinstripe which it normally does.

So it´s not totally impossible that this paint job from yellow to black could be done overnight as they "only" had to respray the monocoque section and replace all the body parts with spare JPS parts such as nose, wings and sidepods. Maybe there wasn´t enough time left to add the pinsripe to the monocoque?

yes, thats possible although its just about the simplest part of the livery to add, whereas the jps signage on the cockpit nose and rear wing was hand painted at that stage, so i doubt any of it was done overnight on wet black paint. on the other hand i don't think noses and cockpit surrounds were transferable between chassis. best guess would be the respray got as far as the tub before it was called off. someone must know who was there ?

[PeterElleray]

Very interesting, I wasn´t aware of Herbert Müller racing a Lotus 72

 

he didn't. it never left the paddock.

[funformula]

... on the other hand i don't think noses and cockpit surrounds were transferable between chassis...

 

At least the cockpit surrounds might be transferable. Fittipaldi used the unique GP Austria-"add-on visor"-surround you mentioned before on both cars, his no.20 race car and the no.31 t-car.

[funformula]

It never raced in those cours.

 

Well... at least it raced as a slot car 

 

[funformula]

And there was even another version of the Villiger livery

 

[FlyingSaucer]

Even if no one has a photo of Lotus painted in the colors of Café do Brasil, I would be interested in hearing a little more about this story.

 

Does anyone know why this deal happened only for the Rothmans 50,000, and why, at the last minute, the car was repainted in the traditional JPS colors?

 

In the original post from 2007, someone said that much of the information about the agreement was published at the Motoring News a couple weeks before the race. Would anyone have such clippings from these materials?

[FlyingSaucer]

Very interesting, I wasn´t aware of Herbert Müller racing a Lotus 72

 

 

There is a quite interesting (but short) text about the story of the Villiger Team in the Unraced F1 website. 

 

You can check it here: https://www.unracedf...ger-cigar-team/

[PeterElleray]

And there was even another version of the Villiger livery

 

that is the car in its original Rob Walker blue with white nose band, brooke bond decals removed and replaced by villiger.

[PeterElleray]

At least the cockpit surrounds might be transferable. Fittipaldi used the unique GP Austria-"add-on visor"-surround you mentioned before on both cars, his no.20 race car and the no.31 t-car.

it might , but  comparing the two cars the 'John Player special' signwriting on the surrounds are at slightly different heights, higher on 727 than 725. no.20, 727 was supposed to be the race car and emerson started practice in that. he then prefered the feel of no. 31 , 725 and raced it. i think the add on visor was just swopped over from one surround to the other, looking at the signwriting. btw, i have found a picture captioned as being at the Rothmans race with those pin stripes in situ on the tub..... Also with 4 x victory stickers on the wing. car carrying no.5. Not sure what to make of that...

Edited by PeterElleray, 07 January 2025 - 18:47.

[funformula]

Not only are the pinstripes missing on the monocoque, they are also missing on top of the sidepods. I didn´t find any other photo of a Lotus 72 in 1972 JPS livery with these pinstripes missing other than the one used for the Rothmans 50000

 

Emerson Fittipaldi, Lotus 72D Ford. | Rothmans 50,000 | Motorsport Images

 

<script async src="https://static.smartframe.io/embed.js"></script><smartframe-embed customer-id="cf672a5debefbf3ded9207696998bf28" image-id="1018753623" style="width: 100%; display: inline-flex; aspect-ratio: 5514/5509; max-width: 5514px;"></smartframe-embed><!-- https://smartframe.i...bedding-support -->

Edited by funformula, 07 January 2025 - 19:45.

[funformula]

it might , but  comparing the two cars the 'John Player special' signwriting on the surrounds are at slightly different heights, higher on 727 than 725. no.20, 727 was supposed to be the race car and emerson started practice in that. he then prefered the feel of no. 31 , 725 and raced it. i think the add on visor was just swopped over from one surround to the other, looking at the signwriting. btw, i have found a picture captioned as being at the Rothmans race with those pin stripes in situ on the tub..... Also with 4 x victory stickers on the wing. car carrying no.5. Not sure what to make of that...

 

I found a photo showing both cockpit surrounds with a "add-on-visor" fitted, so my assumption that this is an unique feature is wrong.

 

Parts of the Lotus 72D Ford in the paddock. | Austrian GP | Motorsport Images

 

<script async src="https://static.smartframe.io/embed.js"></script><smartframe-embed customer-id="cf672a5debefbf3ded9207696998bf28" image-id="1015320453" style="width: 100%; display: inline-flex; aspect-ratio: 5280/3524; max-width: 5280px;"></smartframe-embed><!-- https://smartframe.i...bedding-support -->

Edited by funformula, 07 January 2025 - 19:43.

[PeterElleray]

I found a photo showing both cockpit surrounds with a "add-on-visor" fitted, so my assumption that this is an unique feature is wrong.

 

Parts of the Lotus 72D Ford in the paddock. | Austrian GP | Motorsport Images

 

<script async src="https://static.smartframe.io/embed.js"></script><smartframe-embed customer-id="cf672a5debefbf3ded9207696998bf28" image-id="1015320453" style="width: 100%; display: inline-flex; aspect-ratio: 5280/3524; max-width: 5280px;"></smartframe-embed><!-- https://smartframe.i...bedding-support -->

good bit of research! And you can also see how the 'John Player Special' signwriting is at a different height on the two surrounds, it's a subtle difference, but definately there. So a useful image.

Edited by PeterElleray, Yesterday, 12:10.

[Geoff E]

 And you can also see how the 'John Player Special' signwriting is at a different height on the two surrounds, 

 

Surely, it's the position of the circle which is different.

[PeterElleray]

Not only are the pinstripes missing on the monocoque, they are also missing on top of the sidepods. I didn´t find any other photo of a Lotus 72 in 1972 JPS livery with these pinstripes missing other than the one used for the Rothmans 50000

 

Emerson Fittipaldi, Lotus 72D Ford. | Rothmans 50,000 | Motorsport Images

 

<script async src="https://static.smartframe.io/embed.js"></script><smartframe-embed customer-id="cf672a5debefbf3ded9207696998bf28" image-id="1018753623" style="width: 100%; display: inline-flex; aspect-ratio: 5514/5509; max-width: 5514px;"></smartframe-embed><!-- https://smartframe.i...bedding-support -->

Neither have I, it's quite compelling isn't it? i would guess that neither the cockpit surround nor the nose were touched , along with the rear wing and airbox and that the gold number 'roundel' (which isn't round) on the rad pod was a decal. Pity the mech is obscuring most of the wing. We should now expect an on line auction site to announce that they have a unique set of green and yellow body panels for a Lotus 72 that were never used and have recently been rediscovered in a loft at Hethel... edited to add a bit of research shows that the picture that 'A very special Year' indicates as being from the Rothmans Race showing the car with pin stripes applied is actually from the Canadian GP where Emerson also carried no.5.

Edited by PeterElleray, Yesterday, 16:52.

[PeterElleray]

Surely, it's the position of the circle which is different.

No, the lettering is also at a different height. look at where the 'l' in Special lands below the screen on each surround.

[ReWind]

... when one is talking about the nose cones and the other one about the cockpit surrounds...

 

BTW, hasn't anyone asked AI to show us the Café do Brasil version of the car? 

[funformula]

Neither have I, it's quite compelling isn't it?... Pity the mech is obscuring most of the wing. 

 

Well... here is a better photo of the rear wing

 

Emerson Fittipaldi watches as work is performed on his Lotus 72D Ford. | Rothmans 50,000 | Motorsport Images

 

 

And for what it´s worth on this picture you can see that at least the sponsor logos on the sideplates of the rear wing are decals

 

Emerson Fittipaldi, Lotus 72D Ford. | Victory Race | Motorsport Images

[PeterElleray]

Well... here is a better photo of the rear wing

 

Emerson Fittipaldi watches as work is performed on his Lotus 72D Ford. | Rothmans 50,000 | Motorsport Images

 

 

And for what it´s worth on this picture you can see that at least the sponsor logos on the sideplates of the rear wing are decals

 

Emerson Fittipaldi, Lotus 72D Ford. | Victory Race | Motorsport Images

i did have one thought on a 'spare' cockpit surround for the car. After the French GP the cars were repainted with a taller black base and narrower width to the screen on the surround, this being to make the 'John Player Special' signwriting more visible than in its original location low down on the monocque sides. Because the surround was all plexiglass i believe that new ones were made, and on 725 the old , deep screen surround was never reused. That would provide a donor for a respray in green or yellow that would fit striaght on the car. As regards the nose ... no clue yet... btw, the pinstriping is also missing around the gold number background on the rad pod, the 'roundel' looks like a quick fablon jobbie...

Edited by PeterElleray, Today, 08:30.