1899 replies to this topic

[RedRabbit]

It's silly to make the decision at this point in time rather than considering what the near future holds, and in this case AM literally have every single building block in place to become a Mega team. In case anyone has forgotten Newey has never failed to make a team dominate. It always eventually happens. The only reason it took so long in the turbo era was the huge engine advantage mercedes had, which is now gone.

Yip. Newey has only ever been beaten by superior engines.

[Taxi]

Of course Max to Ferrari would need to be very well negotiated. He would take people from RB (GP, Hannah) and would demand pretty strong garanties to be in charge and not drop the ball. Just like Schumacher in 1996. Going there empty handed would not work of course. 

[MikeTekRacing]

Of course Max to Ferrari would need to be very well negotiated. He would take people from RB (GP, Hannah) and would demand pretty strong garanties to be in charge and not drop the ball. Just like Schumacher in 1996. Going there empty handed would not work of course.

Schumacher had Todt. Ferrari overreact and replace their team priniciple like socks.
They moved too quickly from Binotto.

[lewislorenzo]

Of course Max to Ferrari would need to be very well negotiated. He would take people from RB (GP, Hannah) and would demand pretty strong garanties to be in charge and not drop the ball. Just like Schumacher in 1996. Going there empty handed would not work of course.

Guarantees to be in charge and not drop the ball…come on😂

This isn’t a simulation mate you can’t guarantee those.

[Lowgrip]

It really is like Tost said it lately: Verstappen is worth 3 tenths. To achieve that without Verstappen, a team has to invest dozens of millions, and success wouldn't be guaranteed.

 

Bear in mind it doesn't matter whether a team does believe in Tost's 3 tenths. Norris and Piastri are the living proof of capable, respected drivers who do not (2024) or likely will have a hard time (2025) to get the WDC job done even though they have a very competitive car. Yes, they are quick, yes they make little mistakes, yes they are talented, yes they have grown over the years, yes the pundits like them, yes there's nothing wrong with them, but still, they ultimately do not win. With Verstappen, you don't have that problem - if the car is any good, he will win the WDC for you. No question about it. Any team therefore will ask themselves whether they have better driver material than McLaren and they all know the answer. Now, with the rule changes and new PUs coming up, can any team be certain to deliver an absolute rocketship of a car that any capable driver will win with? I don't think so. Every team needs Verstappen. Denying it is sentimentality.

 

It is not a given especially if you have a very competitive teammate.
An engine DNF, 1 more crash is all what is needed to handle the WDC trophy to your teammate(assuming he is also a top driver).

In my opinion the Norris/Piastri, Hamilton/Leclerc is a situation Verstappen has never experienced. He could do better, he could perform the same but he could also do worse.

In your opinion other drivers are not doing enough but that is also because the pressure is immense and they are almost equally skilled.

In Q3 you will see more mistakes and some bad judgement in the races because of the urge to "gap" your teammate or overtake him quickly.

He will not win 21/23 races or beat his teammate 22/1 in qualifying. That's for sure.

[PrinceBira]

An Alpine qualified 5th and raced well. It was a good car they managed to beat despite an unlucky safety car.
Do I trust they can turn it around? More than ANY other team. Ferrari are a clown operations, Mercedes have 2 capable drivers but I don’t feel they really understood these regs. The chat about AM is ridiculous, they are lost.
Yes, Mclaren are the best but they have shown (team and drivers) they will leave a lot of meat on the bones and their drivers will take points off each other.

Still a lot to play. Enjoy Max having to fight for stuff, him chasing Gasly was fantastic.
I love racing. Winning should never spoil fans. I was equally critical of spoiled Lewis fans being done with Mercedes.
People forget so quickly and turn on their teams when times are rough.

People turn on their teams when they are telling the team they are going in the wrong direction and the team then keeps on going in the wrong direction.

At some point any driver will start to question if they simply understand how to go back in the right direction.

And it’s not only the car. It’s the Horner saga, Marko almost being fired, Newey leaving, many others leaving etc. And the power struggle after Mateschitz death.

It’s much wider than ‘accept a poor car for now because they gave you a good one before’.

[MikeTekRacing]

Sure, but that’s super theoretical. what is the alternative? Yes, Red Bull are struggling. As any group - it is bound for a rebuild.
Aston Martin? Forming a team is not just hiring people. They might be successful, they might not.

[Lowgrip]

Sure, but that’s super theoretical. what is the alternative? Yes, Red Bull are struggling. As any group - it is bound for a rebuild.
Aston Martin? Forming a team is not just hiring people. They might be successful, they might not.

 

I think that for Verstappen's reputation, any team other team will be a downgrade.

If he wants more success(more wins and WDCs), it may make sense to try Mercedes or McLaren or Ferrari.

I would stay at RedBull if I was him. He will gain nothing going up against Leclerc or Russell.

[PrinceBira]

Sure, but that’s super theoretical. what is the alternative? Yes, Red Bull are struggling. As any group - it is bound for a rebuild.
Aston Martin? Forming a team is not just hiring people. They might be successful, they might not.

Why theoretical?

Max is in the team, he will feel everything that has happened. Have you worked in a company where things took a turn for the worse? It has a huge impact on the atmosphere and general working happiness and trust.

As for alternatives, Mercedes is by far the best alternative objectively (taking into account the new PU’s 2026). I hate to see him go there personally, much rather see him building up Ferrari but that is not an option.

[baddog]

NOONE knows what the new regs will bring in terms of relative team performance. Now is not the time for anyone to leap I think, unless they really think their current team has lost funding or something.

[jonklug]

It is not a given especially if you have a very competitive teammate.
An engine DNF, 1 more crash is all what is needed to handle the WDC trophy to your teammate(assuming he is also a top driver).

In my opinion the Norris/Piastri, Hamilton/Leclerc is a situation Verstappen has never experienced. He could do better, he could perform the same but he could also do worse.

In your opinion other drivers are not doing enough but that is also because the pressure is immense and they are almost equally skilled.
In Q3 you will see more mistakes and some bad judgement in the races because of the urge to "gap" your teammate or overtake him quickly.

He will not win 21/23 races or beat his teammate 22/1 in qualifying. That's for sure.

Nothing is "for sure". Just as you give a scenario where he would do worse I can give a scenario where he would find an extra gear. Remember what happened when Perez was in pole at Miami and he was starting 9th? On the occasion where his team mate was ahead he did better, not worse.

He could easily keep beating a higher rated team mate consistently. But of course if that happened we would quickly go back to the old reliable "Merc are favoring Max".

As a Max fan I have 0 doubt about his ability, and that's why I would have 0 issues with him partnering anyone. Would actually be fun to watch the mental gymnastics when he wins.

[renzmann]

According to GPBlog, the proviso is that Verstappen must at least be P3 this summer, otherwise he is allowed to leave RBR. He can leave RBR anyhow of course, but through the proviso his new team has to pay less to RBR.

 

So ironically, if Russell steps up and beats Verstappen come the summer break, he renders Verstappen a cheap transfer for Wolff.

Edited by renzmann, Yesterday, 08:36.

[Nemo1965]

For the first time (see my earlier post) I really agree with people posting that Red Bull is not a professional enough F1-team any more. Who's leading the team? Who's picking the drivers? Who's mentoring the talents at the Red Bulls and in F2? I have no idea. 

 

Then: the car.  It's not only that the car is not good, it shows that for about 1,5 years now the team is not able to use feedback of their drivers to improve the car in a sustained way. Finding a sweet-spot in one race (in Suzuka) is all very nice, but there seems something fundamentally wrong in the concept of design and development. Is it windtunnel correlation? Simulations related? 

 

About the possible transfer of Max, which I feel is a bit off-topic, but here are my five cents: I don't want Max to go to Aston Martin. I want his talent to be tested in a team without Newey. Not that I doubt Max his talent, far from it, I just would want him to see him excel (or not, I am open for anything at my wise old age) outside of Red Bull and beyond Adrian Newey.

Edited by Nemo1965, Yesterday, 08:46.

[Paa]

About the possible transfer of Max, which I feel is a bit off-topic, but here are my five cents: I don't want Max to go to Aston Martin. I want his talent to be tested in a team without Newey. Not that I doubt Max his talent, far from it, I just would want him to see him excel (or not, I am open for anything at my wise old age) outside of Red Bull and beyond Adrian Newey.

He is now with a team without Newey.

[Nemo1965]

He is now with a team without Newey.

 

And he is outperforming the car. But I also mean another team, in general. Max at Mercedes or Ferrari (perhaps there they can keep his entourage out of the realm?) would be very interesting.

[Kao18]

Yuki did very well, but... His fastest quali lap was 0.9 slower than Max. In a normal grid that would put him 10 places down yet it was only 3. In race his fastest lap was 1.1 slower and had better tire strategy/pit stops.  

 

With normal pit stops and strategy I'm almost sure Max would have goten Lewis or at least be on his tail. Even with that car. 

 

As for the team Max can drive in the future, I'm not too keen on  Aston. They are good on papper because of Newey but engines are more important in 2026 and Honda is back on Mercedes.  

 

So Mercedes/Ferrari would be my choice. Toto can put Antoneli on hold at other team, Ferrari is more dificult of course but not impossible to make a deal with Lewis. 

 

Easier said than done. Although Alpine might be an option as part of an engine deal I guess.

[jonklug]

For the first time (see my earlier post) I really agree with people posting that Red Bull is not a professional enough F1-team any more. Who's leading the team? Who's picking the drivers? Who's mentoring the talents at the Red Bulls and in F2? I have no idea. 

 

Then: the car.  It's not only that the car is not good, it shows that for about 1,5 years now the team is not able to use feedback of their drivers to improve the car in a sustained way. Finding a sweet-spot in one race (in Suzuka) is all very nice, but there seems something fundamentally wrong in the concept of design and development. Is it windtunnel correlation? Simulations related? 

 

About the possible transfer of Max, which I feel is a bit off-topic, but here are my five cents: I don't want Max to go to Aston Martin. I want his talent to be tested in a team without Newey. Not that I doubt Max his talent, far from it, I just would want him to see him excel (or not, I am open for anything at my wise old age) outside of Red Bull and beyond Adrian Newey.

 

I echo this sentiment. It would further solidify his greatness when he wins at Mercedes(not that he personally cares about that of course, but fans do), and I do believe Toto once again has all the pieces in place to start a new winning cycle. With Aston though it would also be quite glamorous, even with Newey there again. This team was re-built from the ground up, winning a title with them would also be quite an achievement. Newey alone doesn't guarantee anything, there are many pieces of the puzzle that need to work for them to win titles, so Verstappen winning there would still be quite impressive but I do agree that doing it at Mercedes would be my preferred choice and a bit better from a 'completely different package' perspective. 

[SenorSjon]

May I say that the story of Raymond Vermeulen shellacking the team, if true, I find infuriating? First of all, because I think he is a greasy slimeball, second of all: if I was the CEO or a manager of a team and a manager of a driver would even dare to step beyond the borders of the hospitality-areas, I would reprimand him severely. If he would talk to me like he is my boss, I would ask three mechanics to pick him up and carry him out of the area, head first.

Something is seriously wrong with Red Bull as a team if they allow a glorified hanger-on to even talk to key personel during raceweekends.

Why? Vermeulen is his life long manager iirc and we don't know what is promised behind closed doors. Every problem seems to need a season to fix and now there are more and more problems. Patience probably starts to run thin with the Verstappens. Every time promises are made and then broken. (His) pitstops are getting worse every race it seems and his teammate usually has the faster ones.

[Anderis]

Easier said than done. Although Alpine might be an option as part of an engine deal I guess.

I don't think part of an engine deal is required here. Antonelli has shown himself pretty well in the first few races and he won't be a rookie anymore in 2026. He may actually be the best option from a sporting point of view for some of the teams out there. Give them an option to sign him on a proper deal, at least 2 years and with no clauses that Mercedes can pull him back anytime they want and you may find some teams very willing to sign him.

 

The question is if Antonelli can just walk away and sign with whoever he likes if they don't give him a race seat for 2026. I don't know what his contractual situation is. They may risk that he's never going to return.

[Nemo1965]

Why? Vermeulen is his life long manager iirc and we don't know what is promised behind closed doors. Every problem seems to need a season to fix and now there are more and more problems. Patience probably starts to run thin with the Verstappens. Every time promises are made and then broken. (His) pitstops are getting worse every race it seems and his teammate usually has the faster ones.

 

When I was a journalist with Dutch newspaper De Volkskrant the editorial offices were off-limits to anyone but journalists. No ad-guys, no marketing-guys, not even the CEO of the company that owned the paper was allowed in that area, except when he was invited for a tour or something. The reason: there are certain professional standards that can only be upheld when the people who are really turning the knobs and screws can work without the interference by the commercial side. 

 

A F1-team has a team-principal, drivers, engineers, mechanics, strategy guys and girls, and what have you. They work on the executive side of motorsport and everyone that is not busy with that, should stay out of the garage and out of the running side at all times. That Red Bull has both and Horner and Marko running stuff like driver's choice (or so it seems) is weird enough. If the manager of a driver (!) starts doing stuff like Vermeulen allegedly has done, it just plain idiotic and rather damning of how Red Bull is run.

 

PS: Purely from Vermeulens standpoint, it is also highly unprofessional. If you are severely disappointed, you organize a meeting outside the eyes of the outside world and utter your grievances. Praise in public, damn in private.

Edited by Nemo1965, Yesterday, 10:58.

[MissingApex]

I don't think part of an engine deal is required here. Antonelli has shown himself pretty well in the first few races and he won't be a rookie anymore in 2026. He may actually be the best option from a sporting point of view for some of the teams out there. Give them an option to sign him on a proper deal, at least 2 years and with no clauses that Mercedes can pull him back anytime they want and you may find some teams very willing to sign him.

The question is if Antonelli can just walk away and sign with whoever he likes if they don't give him a race seat for 2026. I don't know what his contractual situation is. They may risk that he's never going to return.

I don’t understand the discussion about Kimi. Russell is out of contract at the end of this season, if Toto decides to sign Max it will be Max and Kimi.

Why keep Russell if you have just signed Max?

[AlexPrime]

I don’t understand the discussion about Kimi. Russell is out of contract at the end of this season, if Toto decides to sign Max it will be Max and Kimi.

Why keep Russell if you have just signed Max?

This, although Toto might decide that he wants to nurture Kimi and keep George. Max could be dangerous to a young driver. 
My feel is that Max will move to Mercedes and George to Alpine, but mind says he will wait Lewis to retire and join Ferrari. Besides, if RBR Ford clicks, he will look extremely foolish.

[Yoshi]

Jeddah next - should be a better track for the RB21 on paper - but let's see. 

Edited by Yoshi, Yesterday, 11:44.

[jonklug]

Jeddah next - should be a better track for the RB21 on paper - but let's see. 

 

No track where it's super hot will be a good track for this car - not in its current form at least. Perhaps it will be marginally better because it's a faster track, but still, I am not looking forward to see Max slide around and go from understeer to oversteer next to the Jeddah walls. 

[lewislorenzo]

No track where it's super hot will be a good track for this car - not in its current form at least. Perhaps it will be marginally better because it's a faster track, but still, I am not looking forward to see Max slide around and go from understeer to oversteer next to the Jeddah walls.

Fortunately Max can drive round car issues

[renzmann]

For the first time (see my earlier post) I really agree with people posting that Red Bull is not a professional enough F1-team any more. Who's leading the team? Who's picking the drivers? Who's mentoring the talents at the Red Bulls and in F2? I have no idea. 

 

Then: the car.  It's not only that the car is not good, it shows that for about 1,5 years now the team is not able to use feedback of their drivers to improve the car in a sustained way. Finding a sweet-spot in one race (in Suzuka) is all very nice, but there seems something fundamentally wrong in the concept of design and development. Is it windtunnel correlation? Simulations related? 

 

About the possible transfer of Max, which I feel is a bit off-topic, but here are my five cents: I don't want Max to go to Aston Martin. I want his talent to be tested in a team without Newey. Not that I doubt Max his talent, far from it, I just would want him to see him excel (or not, I am open for anything at my wise old age) outside of Red Bull and beyond Adrian Newey.

Great posts!

 

Some members seem to think this is all because of Mateschitz, and in some sense, it's true. With Mateschitz, nobody dared stepping out of line and do funny stuff.

 

However, I think this is on Horner. RBR without Mateschitz could have worked easily, and Didi took all the precautions for the team to maintain success. Horner having that affair with an employee though (and the aftermath that came with it) led to a downward spiral. Cunningly (in a non-ironic way I take my hat off for that), he managed to gather a lot of power once that affair created a power vacuum within the organization. However, he only did so on paper, because his leadership lost a lot of credibility and legitimacy. He is supposed to be the one making the important decisions and be the public face of RBR, but he can't. People don't trust him. Those who are talented enough to go elsewhere do, and those who are not or feel some sense of loyalty are left in a team that's lost morale. If I were an employee at RBR and Horner gave me task, I'd do it, but I wouldn't go the extra mile, because in a way that would be beneficial to Horner's succes. Also, Horner's public appearances are miles off what they used to be. He used to be a dog in the positive sense of the word, attacking every single PR related issue fiercely. If nothing else, it's great for a team to have a boss like that. You know he always has your back, no matter what. Nowadays, he's rather humble in public and chooses to appear in public less frequently. It's easy to see why: Even after well over a year, it's still awkward to see Horner in front of a camera. Everybody knows what he's done, and many people think it's weird it didn't have any consequences.

My last point is a bit speculative from my part and I cannot provide any concrete examples, but it wouldn't surprise me if Horner cemented his position by giving loyal followers of his key positions. That, in turn, almost necessarily leads to merit being less important in the organization.

[cyclist]

Jeddah next - should be a better track for the RB21 on paper - but let's see. 

 

Imagine Max sticking it on pole there again for maximal confusion...

[Nemo1965]

Great posts!

 

Some members seem to think this is all because of Mateschitz, and in some sense, it's true. With Mateschitz, nobody dared stepping out of line and do funny stuff.

 

However, I think this is on Horner. RBR without Mateschitz could have worked easily, and Didi took all the precautions for the team to maintain success. Horner having that affair with an employee though (and the aftermath that came with it) led to a downward spiral. Cunningly (in a non-ironic way I take my hat off for that), he managed to gather a lot of power once that affair created a power vacuum within the organization. However, he only did so on paper, because his leadership lost a lot of credibility and legitimacy. He is supposed to be the one making the important decisions and be the public face of RBR, but he can't. People don't trust him. Those who are talented enough to go elsewhere do, and those who are not or feel some sense of loyalty are left in a team that's lost morale. If I were an employee at RBR and Horner gave me task, I'd do it, but I wouldn't go the extra mile, because in a way that would be beneficial to Horner's succes. Also, Horner's public appearances are miles off what they used to be. He used to be a dog in the positive sense of the word, attacking every single PR related issue fiercely. If nothing else, it's great for a team to have a boss like that. You know he always has your back, no matter what. Nowadays, he's rather humble in public and chooses to appear in public less frequently. It's easy to see why: Even after well over a year, it's still awkward to see Horner in front of a camera. Everybody knows what he's done, and many people think it's weird it didn't have any consequences.

My last point is a bit speculative from my part and I cannot provide any concrete examples, but it wouldn't surprise me if Horner cemented his position by giving loyal followers of his key positions. That, in turn, almost necessarily leads to merit being less important in the organization.

 

 

Personally, I don't give a rat's bum-hole about consensual sex in the workplace (if that was what it was, I am not interested to rehash those potatoes, I can live perfectly if other people disagree about this subject, so please don't)  but I can imagine that Horny, eh, Horner feels a bit awkward in publicity since then, it is like what Louis CK said: 'Do you understand how lucky you are that people don't know your ****ing thing? 'Cause everybody knows my thing. Obama knows my thing. Do you understand how that feels? To know that Obama was like: 'Good lord.'

 

To be fair, I would be surprised if Red Bull's staff would be 'quiet quitting' as you describe. I also don't get the impression (I've read some comments of Red Bull people) that the atmosphere through the whole organization is bad. Sparky can comment on that, if he wants to do so. They all seem still a pretty happy bunch. But I do have the impression that in the top quarter of Red Bull there is a leadership crisis, indeed since the dead of Mateschitz and I certainly have the impression that on the engineering side there is a lack of a common vision. It looks like they are solving the car on a race to race basis. 

Edited by Nemo1965, Yesterday, 13:55.

[jonklug]

Fortunately Max can drive round car issues

 

I mean yea. How else would he have won a race in this car! Glad you agree! 

[Nemo1965]

Great posts!

 

Some members seem to think this is all because of Mateschitz, and in some sense, it's true. With Mateschitz, nobody dared stepping out of line and do funny stuff.

 

 

 

PS: I think without Mateschitz dying, the person who leaked all the stuff for Hornygate would not have leaked... (Sorry, now I start to rehash myself, but all the time when it was current I was thinking it, and now I could not refrain myself).

[nivoglibina]

They are a partnership.
I disagreed with Lewis fans b!tching about Mercedes and I disagree with this here. He is 3rd in the title race and they struggle. Of course he can leave, but I’d rather he stays.
He is not entitled by default to the best car.

For all F1 fans it's better that he does not have the best car IMO.

[George Costanza]

Yip. Newey has only ever been beaten by superior engines.

Yes... And Michael Schumacher.

Edited by George Costanza, Yesterday, 17:29.

[George Costanza]

Schumacher had Todt. Ferrari overreact and replace their team priniciple like socks.
They moved too quickly from Binotto.

And Ross Brawn.

[MikeTekRacing]

And Ross Brawn.

Ross came a year later if I recall correctly. I might be wrong

[George Costanza]

It is. Max is the only one that can do it for Ferrari. Lewis was also never goint to happen at Ferrari and yet here we are.

The only driver that was successful at winning championships for past 25 years at Ferrari is Michael Schumacher. That truly says it all.

Taking on Ferrari is a monumental task. Nobody wants to do it. Alain Prost couldn't, Nigel Mansell couldn't, Fernando Alonso couldn't, Sebastian Vettel couldn't, Charles and Lewis aren't doing it at the moment.... I don't think Max will go there.

Kimi won a championship but he wasn't pegged to be like Schumacher at all considering in 2008-2009 and when he came back in 2014-2018, he wasn't the same level as Seb or Fernando.

Edited by George Costanza, Yesterday, 17:37.

[Celloman]

No track where it's super hot will be a good track for this car - not in its current form at least. Perhaps it will be marginally better because it's a faster track, but still, I am not looking forward to see Max slide around and go from understeer to oversteer next to the Jeddah walls. 

It will still be quite a bit better than Bahrain I think. Ambient temperature isn't the only factor as Bahrain had very abrasive tarmac, which Jeddah doesn't have. Jeddah has been an easy one stop in the past and I reckon those fast corners in S1 allow Max to make a bit of a difference driver wise as well. If they don't do well in Jeddah then I reckon it will get a lot harder.

[Myrvold]

Yes... And Michael Schumacher.

And Toro Rosso in 2008.

[George Costanza]

Ross came a year later if I recall correctly. I might be wrong

Correct. December of '96 but he was part of the core factor.

[George Costanza]

And Toro Rosso in 2008.

Adrian isn't going to win all the time but when he gets a great design, he usually does.

[DW46]

And Toro Rosso in 2008.

And Fernando Alonso in 2005.

[George Costanza]

And Fernando Alonso in 2005.

Yes form 1992-2005, only Schumacher and Alonso beat Newey's cars.

[Afterburner]

Let's not get too far into the weeds discussing the past or other drivers here, please. Thanks.

[Mc_Silver]

https://www.instagra...g_web_copy_link

[Ivanhoe]

https://www.instagra...g_web_copy_link

Yeah, he said he did some drift practise in FP2

“We’re just too slow basically every lap, and it was honestly not a lot of fun out there in the long run. A bit of drift practice at the end there as well!”

 

[Kao18]

When I was a journalist with Dutch newspaper De Volkskrant the editorial offices were off-limits to anyone but journalists. No ad-guys, no marketing-guys, not even the CEO of the company that owned the paper was allowed in that area, except when he was invited for a tour or something. The reason: there are certain professional standards that can only be upheld when the people who are really turning the knobs and screws can work without the interference by the commercial side.

A F1-team has a team-principal, drivers, engineers, mechanics, strategy guys and girls, and what have you. They work on the executive side of motorsport and everyone that is not busy with that, should stay out of the garage and out of the running side at all times. That Red Bull has both and Horner and Marko running stuff like driver's choice (or so it seems) is weird enough. If the manager of a driver (!) starts doing stuff like Vermeulen allegedly has done, it just plain idiotic and rather damning of how Red Bull is run.

PS: Purely from Vermeulens standpoint, it is also highly unprofessional. If you are severely disappointed, you organize a meeting outside the eyes of the outside world and utter your grievances. Praise in public, damn in private.

That Vermeulen story is coming from Ted Kravitz, not the most reliable and unbiased source when it comes to Max. I would take it with a big pinch of salt.

A dutch Viaplay reporter said they had a meeting and Vermeulen left confident they can turn it around.

[KWSN - DSM]

That Vermeulen story is coming from Ted Kravitz, not the most reliable and unbiased source when it comes to Max. I would take it with a big pinch of salt.

A dutch Viaplay reporter said they had a meeting and Vermeulen left confident they can turn it around.

 

Theodore please, we need to start calling him Theodore.

[Nemo1965]

That Vermeulen story is coming from Ted Kravitz, not the most reliable and unbiased source when it comes to Max. I would take it with a big pinch of salt.

A dutch Viaplay reporter said they had a meeting and Vermeulen left confident they can turn it around.

I really doubt that Kravitz would lie about what he saw, he did not say that he heard this or that etc, he said he witnessed it himself, in the Red Bull garage. But beyond that: a manager of a driver should not have the access to interfere with the daily running of a F1-team.

[renzmann]

Personally, I don't give a rat's bum-hole about consensual sex in the workplace (if that was what it was, I am not interested to rehash those potatoes, I can live perfectly if other people disagree about this subject, so please don't)  but I can imagine that Horny, eh, Horner feels a bit awkward in publicity since then, it is like what Louis CK said: 'Do you understand how lucky you are that people don't know your ****ing thing? 'Cause everybody knows my thing. Obama knows my thing. Do you understand how that feels? To know that Obama was like: 'Good lord.'

 

To be fair, I would be surprised if Red Bull's staff would be 'quiet quitting' as you describe. I also don't get the impression (I've read some comments of Red Bull people) that the atmosphere through the whole organization is bad. Sparky can comment on that, if he wants to do so. They all seem still a pretty happy bunch. But I do have the impression that in the top quarter of Red Bull there is a leadership crisis, indeed since the dead of Mateschitz and I certainly have the impression that on the engineering side there is a lack of a common vision. It looks like they are solving the car on a race to race basis. 

Right, in a sense it's rather brave to appear in public at all after that saga

 

I'm only speculating from outside of course, but I do think the team is not "a happy bunch":

 - Many parts of the team are not operating on the same level as before the Horner Saga. There's only a few exceptions, actually: Verstappen, strategy, Lambiase. Nobody is doing an abysmal job by all means, but it seems there's a lack of focus. Could be they're not hungry anymore, could be key personnel leaving the team, but considering the scope of the problem, I think it's mainly friction because of the Saga.

 - Wheatley stated last week the main difference between RBR and his new team is the cheerful atmosphere.

 - Indeed there seem to be differing opinions in the engineering department, and they aren't solved constructively. Even the drivers have been complaining that the team isn't listening to them. Newey wasn't listened to in the end. Take the setup window, for example. For months key personnel have been giving wildly different statements about what the goal is - do they accept a narrow setup window or do they want a wider window? That's pretty elemental stuff to have a discussion about! As a result, nothing happens. The setup window still is very narrow, and nailing doesn't seem to be predictable.

 

Who knows though. Maybe there's a good atmosphere in the team. None of the staff that left RBR have anything bad to say about their former employer. That says something as well.

[ATM]

Well, it could be that they have top lawyers which can draft a solid NDA; that might make ex-employees refrain from an useless headache.
As for the Vermeullen karaoke...well...I tend to believe Kravitz on that one; Verstappen's close party has been rather vocal, sometimes even like they run the place. Which brings a different question/predicament forward-should Max leave to another team, he's going to have to simmer down his entourage. Because, as we know from eternal gossip, his two most likely destinations could be either Mercedes or Aston Martin. You don't go all guns blazing on Toto, who happens to be also a team part owner (unless you want to buy him a new desk, instead if the old smashed one). And you certainly don't do anything of the sort în Lawrence Stroll's team, period.

[Kao18]

I really doubt that Kravitz would lie about what he saw, he did not say that he heard this or that etc, he said he witnessed it himself, in the Red Bull garage. But beyond that: a manager of a driver should not have the access to interfere with the daily running of a F1-team.

He may have witnessed something but it wouldnt surprise me if it is wildly exaggerated.

When the on site Viaplay reporter says they had a meeting in the RB hospitality and that Vermeulen afterwards expressed his confidence in the updates that will be introduced in Imola that sounds completely different to what Kravitz says he witnessed.

Anyway I dont see a problem with a manager looking out for the interest of his driver. I think thats his job. Max has been extremely loyal until now and obviously has had serious concerns for a long while already and if they dont listen to him perhaps they will listen to his manager.

Edited by Kao18, Yesterday, 23:49.