23 replies to this topic

[BRG]

We are accustomed to the tribal loyalties that mar modern day F1 and other areas of motor-sport (albeit to a lesser degree thankfully) but for how long has this been the case?  

 

Such loyalties have long been part of other sports going back many decades.  Football (in all its various forms) has long been tribal, mainly of course due to teams having strong local identities which remains the case even in these more global and on-line days. Most teams still draw most of their support from their home-town. 

Other areas of sport may have nationalist support as we see in international tournaments.  Where they are one-person sports, there have been strong connections to individual sportspeople, such Bjorn Borg or Tiger Woods (other stars are available). 

 

Such personal followings are also found in motor-sport with Mansell-mania and Sennadolatry as examples from the past and the recent Orange Army phenomenon shows this is still a thing, as does the strong support for Hamilton whilst nationalistic fervour was perhaps strong for Ferrari in particular, but not so much elsewhere.  I do not recall ever coming across any powerful level of home-town support for teams, marques or drivers. 

 

So if we roll back the years, when did this sort of fan-dom first arise in our sport?  Certainly I can recall Italian fans (largely tifosi) invade the track at Monza after GPs but how far back did that go?  We might perhaps draw a veil over 1930s fervour as highlighted by Elon Musk style salutes, but was there any of this sort of fan-dom in the early days?  Of course there was great enthusiasm right from the start leading to the spectator fatalities of very early years but was it just general euphoria over speed and spectacle or was it focussed on individual drivers, marques or nationalities?

 

Discuss!

[Sterzo]

Nationalistic fervour in motor sport? Gordon Bennett!

[Doug Nye]

Indeed - 1934-39 being - according to Google Translate, admittedly - ein wunderbares Beispiel für den Anfang.  "A wonderful example to start with".  

 

The Italian Fascist state under Mussolini 1923-1940 did at least as much to exhort the public to support their national industry's motor racing exploits, and to regard Italian drivers as flag-waving warriors wrapped in the tricolori.

 

DCN

[Vitesse2]

Indeed - 1934-39 being - according to Google Translate, admittedly - ein wunderbares Beispiel für den Anfang.  "A wonderful example to start with".  

 

The Italian Fascist state under Mussolini 1923-1940 did at least as much to exhort the public to support their national industry's motor racing exploits, and to regard Italian drivers as flag-waving warriors wrapped in the tricolori.

 

DCN

Less well-known - especially in Europe - are the efforts of the Brazilian president Getúlio Vargas to promote motor racing as a national sport in the 1930s, with competition against foreign visitors (Argentinians and Europeans, mainly) seen as enhancing the country's prestige. Then, as now, football was the sport of the masses in Brazil, but even though the Brazilian national team was quite successful in the 1930s Vargas viewed the sport as a whole as tribal - whereas his original grand plan for the modestly named Prova Presidente Getúlio Vargas road race in a similar style to the Argentinian Turismo Carretera events was that it would unify the country by visiting all 26 states of Brazil. Circumstances dictated that when it eventually happened in 1940 it was a very much smaller affair - and he probably wasn't very pleased that Fangio won it!

[Vitesse2]

Nationalistic fervour in motor sport? Gordon Bennett!

There were suggestions in 1930, when GP racing was going through hard times, that the Gordon Bennett might be revived. Depending on which source you believe it was the idea of either Count Florio via the RAC d'Italia or Augustin Pérouse of the AC de France! The CSI did apparently discuss it, but rejected it, setting up the European Championship for Drivers instead. Florio had been the promoter of the so-called Championship of the Latin Countries between 1924 and 1926.

[2F-001]

The short-lived single seater series that was somehow aligned with top-level football (soccer) teams — were the creators of that hoping for a groundswell of partisan ‘fan’ interest to follow it? Never made any sense to me, sporting-wise or commercially.

 

(The only notable ‘fan interest’ I’ll admit to concerns a short-lived Can Am car from 1970.)

[Doug Nye]

Mention of Vargas's motor racing interest in Brazil naturally prompts thoughts of Juan Domingo Peron and his later encouragement of motor sport in Argentina 1946-55.  

 

No British politician would have dreamed of doing any such a thing.  Our motor sports industry seeded, took root and flourished despite them.

 

DCN

[BRG]

I was hoping to skirt around the uber-nationalistic 1930s in favour of more rational times.

[john aston]

I am not at home to Mr Fan, never have been. One of the many reasons I loathe most team sports is the tribalism and aggression which underpins it . Like all my many friends who follow the sport I  largely don't care who wins a race , all my interest focuses  on whether the car behind will catch the car in front , and when , where and how an overtake will happen  .  I don't care a damn what country the driver is from or whether he's nice to his  nan. drivers' only function is to make the machines I love go as fast as they can .

 

I like the red cars but lose no sleep if they don't win. The only fans I rather like are the tifosi and the genuine , uncomplicated joy they take in a Ferrari win . I despised the knuckle dragging Mansell fans and the idiots at Silverstone who booed Verstappen last time I went to a Grand Prix . I was at Brands 1976 and was embarrassed at the near riot which met the stewards' decision not to let Hunt start. 

 

I'm not a fan but an enthusiast . The only way I'd go to an F1 Fanzone  would be at gunpoint.        

[AJCee]

I also hope that I fall under the ‘enthusiast’ category. I don’t mind the fanaticism for a driver or team per se, What makes me sad is the ‘I ❤️ driver A therefore I unreservedly HATE driver B’ attitude.
Certainly that is prevalent in football, but other sports, rugby* being one, can do the rivalry without the hate.



*speaking as a Welsh rugby fan, I have no time whatsoever for the ‘hate the English’ brigade. Bet they never actually go and see a club match.

[Sterzo]

I shall sign up for john aston's manifesto forthwith. And mere mention of Brands 76 leaves me wriggling in discomfort.

[Vitesse2]

Mention of Vargas's motor racing interest in Brazil naturally prompts thoughts of Juan Domingo Peron and his later encouragement of motor sport in Argentina 1946-55.  

 

No British politician would have dreamed of doing any such a thing.  Our motor sports industry seeded, took root and flourished despite them.

 

DCN

To be fair, Doug, the sport had some support in - especially - the House of Lords: Earl Howe (obviously!) and (at least) Lords Cottenham, Selsdon, Sandhurst and Waleran. And in the immediate aftermath of WW2 there was a cross-party lobby group of MPs who regularly raised the issue of the release of Donington Park in the Commons - Frederick Erroll (Con, Altrincham & Sale), Mont Follick (Lab, Loughborough), Allan Noble (Con, Chelsea), Clifford Wilcock (Lab, Derby) and Sir Peter Bennett (Con, Birmingham Edgbaston) are ones I know of, but I think there were others. But there was certainly no enthusiasm at ministerial level ...

[opplock]

*speaking as a Welsh rugby fan, I have no time whatsoever for the ‘hate the English’ brigade. 

 

Welsh rugby bigots are still arguing with Kiwi rugby bigots over a game played in December 1905. I very much hope the great grandchildren of Verstappen and Hamilton fanboys aren't still arguing about safety car rules in 2141. 

 

If you haven't guessed I'm a rugby refugee. 

[AJCee]

@opplock, I concur, that one is also tiresome! It just wasn’t possible to halt play until the TMO could be consulted 90 odd years later!

[Garsted]

Weren't Hesketh one of the first F1 teams to sell merchandise with their teddy bear in a helmet T shirts? I think my brother may still have his somewhere.
Steve

[BRG]

I'm not a fan but an enthusiast .  

My position too.  I have no particular bond with any team or driver,although there are some that I like more than others.  And that was how things seemed to be when I attended my first motor races in the late 1960s.  We appreciated all the teams and drivers more or less equally and enjoyed the sport overall rather than  backing one element. 

 

So I have wondered how we got from there to here.  Is it the influence of TV coverage that enables us to watch every race rather than just our home event?  

[BRG]

I hope Doug (DCN) will not mind me posting this comment that he made over 20 years ago in an old thread about BRM,.but which is very relevant to this thread.

 

ORMA was descended from the BRM supporters Association which had been formed originally to provide personal supporters of the original cooperative industrial project with a link to the programme, and to involve the general public in the idea's ambitions and objectives. As the original British Racing Motor staggered through its financial shortfall and slippages of time and missed targets - experiences dear to my heart   - it was the BRMA which formed a hardcore of public support and often reacted violently to press criticism with pungent letters to the editor in defence of the misunderstood operation...

When the original British Motor Racing Research Trust was closed and the hardware and rights sold to the Owen Organisation, BRMA's title became ORMA and the same contemporary equivalent of a 'fan club' set-up conducted continuing operations. ORMA members received a pretty lively newsletter full of information, news, excuses and lies about BRM progress and activities - there were regular visits to and open days at the works in Bourne and up on the test circuit at Folkingham - where the race 'shop was situated - while the ORMA tent at major UK race meetings in which the BRMs were competing became a familiar fixture.

ORMA members were in many cases the most rabid and uncritical of BRM fans.

Many of them were in many ways the most rabidly patriotic and unswervably red, white and blue of war-winning patriotic Brits who had done their bit for King and country, were absolutely imbued with notions of 'British is Best' (and 'Empire Made' being only marginally second best) and most seemed utterly convinced that nobody else in the entire world could better us other than by political manipulation or outright cheating, dashed bad form, Johnny Foreigner....beastly Eyeties, baleful Huns who hadn't yet been slapped down hard enough...all that kind of stuff.

Many more ORMA members were knowledgeable, good hearted, wholesomely pro-home team genuine enthusiasts who were increasingly desperate for the British Racing Motor to show some form, and at last to emulate what Vanwall had done...and to beat those bloody red cars. Which - ultimately - they did, regularly...until it all fell apart again...as ultimately did ORMA itself.

DCN

Edited by BRG, Yesterday, 09:41.

[2F-001]

Weren't Hesketh one of the first F1 teams to sell merchandise with their teddy bear in a helmet T shirts? I think my brother may still have his somewhere.
Steve

I had a McLaren t-shirt, and an Emerson/Gold Leaf T-shirt long before that; both bore what were trademarks (and were of fine quality) so I assume they were, in some sense, 'official'.

 

Whilst 'team merch' is not really my thing at all, one item I'm proud to have is a woollen Connew hat - although this is a 'revival' item, I don't imagine they had them in period...

[GazChed]

Weren't Hesketh one of the first F1 teams to sell merchandise with their teddy bear in a helmet T shirts? I think my brother may still have his somewhere.
Steve

Becoming interested in motor racing in the early seventies the first and probably only piece of team merchandise I bought was a Hesketh Superbear Racing tee shirt. Unfortunately as a fourteen year old who was growing in all directions it didn't fit me for long...

Edited by GazChed, Yesterday, 14:54.

[DCapps]

Neither "fan" nor "enthusiast" but perhaps rather more of an "interested observer." 

 

Other than a bit of the usual snobbery, difficult to discern much in the way any true difference between "fan" and "enthusiast."

 

For some years I actually thought I was an "enthusiast," but then gave it some very serious thought and realized that I wasn't.

 

HDC

[john winfield]

Neither "fan" nor "enthusiast" but perhaps rather more of an "interested observer." 

 

Other than a bit of the usual snobbery, difficult to discern much in the way any true difference between "fan" and "enthusiast."

 

For some years I actually thought I was an "enthusiast," but then gave it some very serious thought and realized that I wasn't.

 

HDC

 

Perhaps it's a question of terminology, Don, or perhaps you have misunderstood. I think there can be a big difference between fans, devoted to a team or driver, and enthusiasts, devoted to the sport, but with some affection for certain participants. But yes, there can be some snobbery too.

 

A great shame that you don't consider yourself an enthusiast. Hardly worth being a motor racing historian, surely? 

[DCapps]

Nope, no misunderstanding but perhaps simply how one operationally defines terns -- and thinks about things.

 

As for the, "Hardly worth being a motor racing historian," jibe, remind me, please do, who started this forum... ?

 

Oh, was it a mere "interested observer?"

 

Oh, dear how could that be?

[BRG]

Oh, was it a mere "interested observer?"

 

Oh, dear how could that be?

That was rather the question, wasn't it.  I think you are something more than just an interested observer and there is no need to be coy about that.

[Jim Thurman]

Here in the U.S., it varies, much like the country itself.

 

Folks in Indycar threads have asked me if I recalled any superfan behavior, and with the caveat I wasn't at too many races in person, while Mario Andretti, the Unsers and A.J. Foyt had their fans and supporters, I don't recall any real animosity between them. At worst, some good-natured ribbing.

 

For NASCAR, I understand it could get a bit more intense in the heart of the South, and there were Petty vs. Allison camps, and later on, many remarks made about some of Dale Earnhardt's fans. There definitely were many fans who were anti-Jeff Gordon, which I understand for different reasons than they did.

 

At some U.S. short tracks, there could be some very passionate supporters locally with a real hero(es) vs. villain(s) approach at work. There were times these occurred naturally, but promoters were also known to play this up, a la wrestling. Sometimes a driver came to be disliked just because they won so often, other times it was rough driving style. Each of these also gained supporters. Most times this didn't spill into actual fights, but on occasion, at certain places, it could get a bit heated.