25 replies to this topic

[Scudetto]

The EC's announcement today that the tobacco ban may be accelerated from 2006 to 2004 made me wonder what the teams so heavily relying on fag money will do when that source dries up. We're taling about the top two teams here, too. The way the economy is currently running in the US and in most parts of the world would make me think that there can't be too may major corporations looking to commit tens of millions of long-term dollars in F1 unless the world economy recovers substantially by then.

As an aside, without Marlboro branding, will we see Ferrari returning to their proper shade of Scarlet? Hope so.

[JuanF1]

That's why tobacco companies are not closed by the governments. All the economy of the world would fall. Sorry, I have no answer for your question, it is a big problem indeed.

[Thanassis]

I believe that the tobacco ban is one of the reasons Uncle Bernie wants more GP's away from EU (Remember: Russia, Middle East, even Malaysia more recently)!

Since the tobacco companies won't get any promotion in EU (that's no less than 9 GP's), they would probably leave F1, taking their money with them. Therefore, reducing the number of GP's in Tobacco-Ban countries and replacing them with others (in countries were tobacco advertising is still legal) is the only way to keep Phillip Morris and the rest in the game!

That's how I see it.

(time for my cigarette)

;)

[Dudley]

The EU is academic, F1 will ban tobacco from 2006 anyway.

[ehagar]

Alcohol and recreational drugs like viagra...

What I wonder about is do people who see cars go around with cig. logos really want to take up smoking?

[sennadog93]

Mainly IT and petroleum companies I would think.

[Donovan]

i was quite impressed with Williams... they moved away from tobacco sponsors way early... quite a good example.

as for the rest, i'm sure there are plenty of other sponsors out there, but maybe this rival series issue will affect their willingness to get involved, if f1 is seen to be unstable.

[No27]

IT related companies, perhaps breweries (is that legal?, think so, see Beck's on Jaguar). Think about the teturn of gold Warsteiner livery on the 1980 Arrows. Perhaps the silver livery of Absolut Wodka is something for MclarenMercedes. Also suits Mika's nordic appearance and David's lifestyle.
Furthermore, technological (other than IT) business, insurrance and banking (HBSC and CreditSuisse, seems to make sense).

For the right colour on the Ferrari, Vodafone is a step in the right direction but it's a shade different (read wrong).

Shame about the loss of some great graphic's though. I really like the Lucky Strike logo. And I think the Rothmans and JPS liveries were one of the classiest in F1 ever.

And what will hapen to BAR?

[BRG]

Originally posted by ehagar
What I wonder about is do people who see cars go around with cig. logos really want to take up smoking?

The tobacco companies insist that their sponsorship does not and is not intended to attract new smokers.

So the question really is, why then do the tobacco companies put such huge amounts into F1 sponsorship?
Or could it be that they are.......lying? (Surely not, these are companies well known for their integrity and truthfulness )

Anyway, as Williams and others have shown, there is plenty of other support out there. And if it all serves to cut back on some of the pointless extravagance that surrounds F1 and leads to some cost-cutting, then that would be no bad thing.

And as to what happens to BAR..... er, who cares???!

[Dan_G]

You have to look at what the other biggest businesses in the world are to see who could front that kind of cash. Aside from Tobacco, the other biggest world industries are alcohol, media/entertainment, and automobiles. Technology is coming along in a few cases now, like Compaq. Those are the businesses that will most likely step in to fill the void left by tobacco. The biggest question is whether or not BAT will bother to own a team that they cant put their own name on the side of the car.

[JuanF1]

BRG, according to them it doesn't attract new smokers, but the ones that already smoke another brand.

[BRG]

Originally posted by JuanF1
BRG, according to them it doesn't attract new smokers, but the ones that already smoke another brand.

Right, and that's worth investing $40 or 50 million bucks a year for.... I think not.

[JuanF1]

Originally posted by BRG
Right, and that's worth investing $40 or 50 million bucks a year for.... I think not.

Neither do I.

[ehagar]

Originally posted by BRG
Right, and that's worth investing $40 or 50 million bucks a year for.... I think not.

I was more under the impression that because of mainstream advertising restrictions (ie. television ads, newspaper ads, etc.) the government has created a false econony where 'alternative' event sponsorship becomes more valuable.

One thing I find reprehensible is the way cigarette companies used to do their advertising with NASCAR. Winston used to have their Winston girls accept empty packages of cigarettes (even other brands) and give people new packages. Or at the Vancouver Indy, the players team sold player cigarettes at their kiosk. They spend millions trying to create this image of a racing team, then when you go to the racing event you see what it is about. The cigarettes weren't there the next year...

Pushing drugs if you ask me. I would be just as annoyed if they did the same with asprin or viagra.

They don't do that anymore I don't think. But I'll miss the Tobacco ads. They have some of the nicer paint schemes.

[bleakuzs]

Coca Cola, Pepsi, Foster's, Budweiser, Miller

Let the beverage bonaza begin!

[JuanF1]

Isn't the tobacco ban supposed to include alcohol?

[EVL29]

"Isn't the tobacco ban supposed to include alcohol?"

If it doesn't,then it's only a matter of time before it does.


"I believe that the tobacco ban is one of the reasons Uncle Bernie wants more GP's away from
EU (Remember: Russia, Middle East, even Malaysia more recently)! "


Just another line of thought,but...I do seem to remember a few years ago that the Race at the NurburgRing got around the German Tobacco Ban by calling itself the Grand Prix of Luxemburg.
Same with San Marino,no?
Are the BeNeLux countries members of the EU?(Sorry,I'm an American:rolleyes: )
If not,could a Return to Zanvoort(sp?) be in the Offing.
OR howzabout a GP of Lichtenstein,eh?
Those really small countries probably aren't bound by EU Laws/Charters.

[Chris G.]

As soon as I finish this beer, I'm gonna go smoke a cigarette.

[mikedeering]

Only tobacco teams are:

McLaren, Ferrari, Jordan, BAR & Benetton.

Ferrari are tied in with Marlboro until 2006 - afterwards I don't really see them having a problem finding a new sponsor e.g. Vodafone etc. Also, by 2006 MS wil have retired, so Ferrari won't actually need a sponsor and can go back to paying normal wages!

Benetton will surely lose Mild Seven soon - I don't suppose Renault want tobacco sponsorhsip when the team is officially Renault only - also why on earth has Mild Seven stuck around so long??? In their first season sponsoring Benetton they won 8 races - followed by 11 in 1995. Since then, just 1 win, and minimal TV coverage. After Bernoldi's recent efforts, I would suggest Arrows have had more coverage on TV than Benetton over the last 3 years!!! I guess Renault will be the new major sponsor - a return of that lovely yellow shade circa 1985...

McLaren - always had tobacco sponsorship. With Ron's obsession with appearance and doublespeak, I am sure he will pick up an IT sponsor - they already have SAP, Computer Associates and Sun on board. Microsoft McLaren Mercedes anyone? I can see a crash joke there (but will not stoop so low).

BAR will presumably be bought by Honda once Renault and Toyota start performing well. Honda will then retain the red sun logo and white paint job. After 2006, BAT have no reason to retain the loss making F1 operation - Honda originally intended to fun their own team, and reports suggest they prefer BAR over Jordan...

Jordan - let's face it, EJ could get sponsors without a problem - despite the pitiful under performance of his team. I think he should go with the Irish connection and go with Guinness - a sweet black machine with white top - I must go and design it for GP3 now!!!

[squiggle bob]

subliminal advertising! thats how the tobacoo companies work these days in f1.. you see those cars go round and round the track, and then when you next see the marlboro or west packaging etc, you immediately think of formula one..

ferrari could quite easily get vodafone, coca cola, shell may put even more money in..

i would guestimate that it will be 90% IT industry.. not only can teams gain money, but also technology.. what can they gain, other than money, from tobacco?! free smokes for the pit crews!?

how about atlas f1?!

why can i see viagra agreeing with EJ to sponser his team!?

why do i continue to use these smilies!

[Paste]

Originally posted by BRG

And as to what happens to BAR..... er, who cares???!

Honda, my friend.

[tifoso]

No27, Warnsteiner is already a corporate partner of McLaren:



There are already quite a few IT companies sponsoring F1 teams. I'm not sure with the current economy will see much of an uptick in those companies sponsorships. Look what happened to Prost and Yahoo, for example, though the tie-in does make sense.

I agree with bleakuzs. It will probably be companies with products that have global appeal to consumers -- like soft drinks, beer, or maybe IT companies that make products for consumers...mobile phones, PDAs, etc.

[Manson]

Since we'll all agree the governments are run by morons, they all jumped on this "Hey, if we ban tobacco advertising, people will stop smoking!" bandwagon. What a joke. They won't ban the stuff outright 'cause of the tax revenues. If they had any brains (we know the answer to that), they would make the tobacco companies donate $1 to charity or medical research for every dollar they spend on ads. Makes sense to me. Recently in Toronto they cancelled the "Symphony of Fire", a music and fireworks competition because B&H pulled out their support. Nobody else stepped up and now we get squat. All thanks to the braintrust running the country.
Alcohol will be the next target. Sports and cultural events will drop by the wayside as nobody will step up. Air Canada took over the Canadian GP to replace Player's. Big deal, they didn't put any money into the support series and driver development program like Player's did, they only took the top prize. That example is where things will really suffer.

[BRG]

Originally posted by Manson
Since we'll all agree the governments are run by morons

Err, no, I don't agree. But I might agree that governments are ELECTED by morons....

I see no problem with banning tobacco advertising. Anything that cuts back smoking even a little bit must be a good thing IMO. We are all paying, one way or another, either through taxes or health insurance premiums, for the extra unnecessary costs to the health sector that smoking causes. Perhaps advverts for booze will also be banned in time - again, why not? After all, if drugs were suddenly legalised, would you want to see cocaine advertising on F1 cars (for instance, Montoya in the Coca de Colombia Williams)?

[Manson]

Originally posted by BRG
Err, no, I don't agree. But I might agree that governments are ELECTED by morons....

I see no problem with banning tobacco advertising. Anything that cuts back smoking even a little bit must be a good thing IMO. We are all paying, one way or another, either through taxes or health insurance premiums, for the extra unnecessary costs to the health sector that smoking causes. Perhaps advverts for booze will also be banned in time - again, why not? After all, if drugs were suddenly legalised, would you want to see cocaine advertising on F1 cars (for instance, Montoya in the Coca de Colombia Williams)?

I can't disagree with that but as long as it's a legal product what right do they have to ban adverts? Ban the stuff outright and then they don't have a problem. Too much tax revenue lost to do that. I had a talk with my MP on my doorstep about how I thought this ban on adverts was a crock and reminded him that his government had only a couple years before LOWERED tobacco taxes! Take the tobacco money and don't feel guilty. People have the choice to smoke or not to smoke but no right to bitch and sue when it kills them.

[freq019]

As far a Marboro goes they are owned by Phillip Morris, which in turn owns Kraft foods. So in theory if Philip Morris wants to continue to sponsor F1 they can do so under one of their other brands.