541 replies to this topic

[juicy sushi]

I mean, good luck getting all those manufacturers to agree to a coherent set of rules.

That's the thing, they seem to be doing it.  This wasn't prompted by the ACO or FIA.  

[Henri Greuter]

I don't think this is an attempt to break the power of the ACO.  This seems more like a feeling that the convergence idea is not succeeding because the scale of the BoP is perhaps too excessive.  So, they're trying to see how they could get to common rules from LMH and LMDh starting points.  This seems more like trying to build on the things that everyone likes and then find a way to do a revised version that learns from the current situation.  I think IMSA would probably go along quite happily, and the ACO will hardly say no if the manufacturers all come to them with a way to keep the ACO's best life continuing for considerably longer.

I don't think this to be aimed at breaking the power of the ACO. 

But over time ACO has proved itself to be the most powerful source to keep Le Mans alive, even in the most dire of circumstances (dare I mention the 3.5 liter cars era of the early '90's when Ecclestone almost had succeeded in his dream to kill off Endurance racing ?)

 

Any intentions by the manufacturers combined will stand a better chance if they have ACO within their camp as well. IMSA appears to be of less importance since Le Mans is the ultimate prize they go for, everything else is consolation. Ask Toyota and Team Penske about their 2024 prizes.

But of course, if IMSA joins in as well, a number of things can only get even better then.

 

Anyway, I look on it as a positive initiative where both ACO & IMSA should be open for to begin with.

[KWSN - DSM]

What the over/under on Autosport updating the standings before a week have passed?

 

[Disgrace]

Although I suppose why would you not use Wikipedia for that?

[KWSN - DSM]

Although I suppose why would you not use Wikipedia for that?

 

Why Autosport would not use that?

 

I have a subscription to the supposed premier auto racing magazine in the world, paying for the privilege - a magazine covering among other F1, F2, F3, FAcademy, FE and yes WEC - Often are the times where qualifying results from F2 and F3 are not posted for days, the WEC race was covered quite extensively, yet no update of the standings so far. I can go many places for the standings, but Autosport should in my view be the place to go (which Wikipedia should never if looking assuredly correct information).

 

I do know the standings, the question is more, how can Autosport 5 days after the race not know, and why is this just umpteenth case of Autosport being far from updated.

 

http://www.fiawec.co...assification/34

Edited by KWSN - DSM, 25 April 2025 - 17:33.

[juicy sushi]

Porsche might be announcing a new street car at Le Mans with 963 allusions: https://www.onlyendu...al-963-in-june/

[FLB]

[FLB]

[Silverstone96]

Return to Silverstone has been definitively ruled out I see, damn shame.

[Amin]

Return to Silverstone has been definitively ruled out I see, damn shame.

For 2026. I believe it was reported a few months a go that they were trying to get back in for 2027? 

[juicy sushi]

I think the main issue is that they don't seem to have an desire to expand the schedule and the current events on the calendar have mostly got long-term contracts that the series is happy with.

[Silverstone96]

For 2026. I believe it was reported a few months a go that they were trying to get back in for 2027?

Feels like the can gets kicked down the road every year, doubt Silverstone will want ELMS back next year as they only took that as a route back to WEC.

[flingsofdeon]

I’m curious what type of crowd numbers we would expect Silverstone to attract?

Personally would have loved them (unrealistically obviously) to go to Brands Hatch, but meh.

Off to the Spa round and last year that looked properly popular for a non-Le Man’s round.

[Silverstone96]

I’m curious what type of crowd numbers we would expect Silverstone to attract?

Personally would have loved them (unrealistically obviously) to go to Brands Hatch, but meh.

Off to the Spa round and last year that looked properly popular for a non-Le Man’s round.

I think 40-50k would be realistic for Silverstone.

For context BTCC gets 20-30k at most meetings

[OvDrone]

The WEC season calendar should be 10 races + Le Mans and Silverstone was perfect for LMP1s previously and would be phenomenal for current WEC. This needs to happen.

[LolaB0860]

There's never been as good calendar+format as there was for ILMC 2011 and never will be again

Edited by LolaB0860, 29 April 2025 - 20:35.

[TennisUK]

I think 40-50k would be realistic for Silverstone.

For context BTCC gets 20-30k at most meetings

WEC crowd was always pretty poor at Silverstone before. ACO always inflate attendance figures, but Silverstone was one of the more comedic lies.

 

I reckon Brands would get a much bigger crowd due to proximity to London. 

 

Much bigger repair bill too, mind - that would be a lot of cars lapping a very short track.

Edited by TennisUK, 29 April 2025 - 21:19.

[FNG]

I've been watching a lot of the WEC lately and I must say I really like it. Great cars and good racing. Been fun to watch.

[Silverstone96]

WEC crowd was always pretty poor at Silverstone before. ACO always inflate attendance figures, but Silverstone was one of the more comedic lies.

I reckon Brands would get a much bigger crowd due to proximity to London.

Much bigger repair bill too, mind - that would be a lot of cars lapping a very short track.

Not to mention impossible to pass on.

It’s Silverstone or nothing but it seems ACO are happy with nothing when it comes to the UK.

[Henri Greuter]

Not to mention impossible to pass on.

It’s Silverstone or nothing but it seems ACO are happy with nothing when it comes to the UK.

 

 

At least about one `thing` coming from England such feeling of ACO is more than justified.

 

Mind you, it was UK based Bernie Ecclestone who tried to kill off Endurance racing and ACO's own Le Mans from the very late 80s and in the early 90s for once and for all and forgood in order to have `his` F1 circus benefitting from it.

[JHSingo]

I get the argument for a prospective British round of WEC being at Silverstone, but tbh, I'm a bit bored of it having a monopoly on the biggest events - F1, MotoGP, likely WEC (if it was to ever happen) - and it's not exactly the most inspiring venue from an aesthetics point of view, is it?

I'm biased, but I'd love to see it at Donington - surely the Grand Prix loop would be a long enough circuit?

 

[Silverstone96]

I get the argument for a prospective British round of WEC being at Silverstone, but tbh, I'm a bit bored of it having a monopoly on the biggest events - F1, MotoGP, likely WEC (if it was to ever happen) - and it's not exactly the most inspiring venue from an aesthetics point of view, is it?

I'm biased, but I'd love to see it at Donington - surely the Grand Prix loop would be a long enough circuit?

Donington would be great I agree but I don’t think the garage facilities would be big enough sadly.

Also doubt MSV have the financial clout to throw their hat in the ring but it’s academic if WEC don’t want to go to the UK anyway.

[Henri Greuter]

Donington would be great I agree but I don’t think the garage facilities would be big enough sadly.

Also doubt MSV have the financial clout to throw their hat in the ring but it’s academic if WEC don’t want to go to the UK anyway.

 

 

If some great names of the past of British car builders with a pedigree in Endurance racing would be involved again?

 

Had the VAG group enabled Bentley to participate and we somehow would have Jaguars, things could be so much different if it came to getting an English event again.

[PayasYouRace]

Well we now have Aston Martin in the top class, and they’ve been a staple of the GTs for decades.

[juicy sushi]

Unless there is an appetite to go beyond 8 events, I cannot really see the possibility for Silverstone.  It's not a separate continent, so would need to knock off one of Spa or Imola, both of which have been commercial smash hits, and in Spa's case has significant historic pedigree.  And the Middle Eastern rounds, while having joke attendance, pay large enough fees up-front in cash that the series isn't going to refuse them, even if 2 gulf rounds make no sense at all in an 8-race world Championship.

[FNG]

Dumb question but why not go beyond 8 if there is a demand for it?

[FLB]

Dumb question but why not go beyond 8 if there is a demand for it?

Budget. The cars are more expensive to run than what was initially thought and travelling costs and time have increased immensely since COVID.

[juicy sushi]

Especially for the GT3 teams, who don't have the same factory budgets which the Hypercar class does.

[juicy sushi]

Of course, this gives us the chance to go on a fun tangent and suggestion our own 8-race calendars, since we have time to kill before Spa.

 

Personally, if I had managed to seize power and force my demands on the series, I'd want:  Kyalami, Fuji, Spa, Le Mans, Monza, Interlagos, Gilles-Villeneuve, Road America.

[Silverstone96]

One solution to appease UK fans is like to see is for the ELMS Silverstone round to have an open invitation class for hypercars as a one off.

Even if it attracted 6-8 entries it would be something.

Edited by Silverstone96, 02 May 2025 - 19:03.

[Joseki]

Spa BoP is out and bring out the red clown noses for the circus.

 

 

Good luck to Toyota with the heaviest car (12 kg heavier than the next heaviest car) and the least powerful engine (9 KW lower than the next powerful car).

 

The next FIA/ACO BoP is gonna make them field a LMP2 at Le Mans

[juicy sushi]

A link to the pdf:  https://sportscar365...OP_05052025.pdf

 

Yeah, the Ferrari got nerfed, with reason, Toyota got hit hard as well, so the FIA definitely do not feel the car is struggling as much as the team thinks.  BMW also got pulled in, but the biggest outlier is Alpine with a bunch more power than the other non-Aston cars below 250kph.  Toyota get the biggest gain over 250kph, so should be really strong passing on the Kemmel straight, assuming they've somehow been able to stay close enough on the way there.

[Joseki]

Because % are always a bit misleading, this is the actual figure in KW before and after 250 kph.

 

Toyota - 480 KW - 520 KW

Porsche - 494 KW - 511 KW

Ferrari - 489 KW - 507 KW

Alpine - 520 KW - 497 KW

BMW - 503 KW - 509 KW

Peugeot - 520 KW - 501 KW

Cadillac - 501 KW - 520 KW

Aston Martin - 520 KW - 506 KW

 

I think it's a bit interesting that Peugeot has pretty much the absolute best BoP possible, the car must an absolute dog if it's still not competitive.

Edited by Joseki, 06 May 2025 - 15:20.

[juicy sushi]

Because % are always a bit misleading, this is the actual figure in KW before and after 250 kph.

 

Toyota - 480 KW - 520 KW

Porsche - 494 KW - 511 KW

Ferrari - 489 KW - 507 KW

Alpine - 520 KW - 497 KW

BMW - 503 KW - 509 KW

Peugeot - 520 KW - 501 KW

Cadillac - 501 KW - 520 KW

Aston Martin - 520 KW - 506 KW

 

I think it's a bit interesting that Peugeot has pretty much the absolute best BoP possible, the car must an absolute dog if it's still not competitive.

 

Yeah, it's gotta be the most dismissive gesture possible.  "We'll give you a BoP matching a first year car with no hybrid system because you're so hopeless that you're still going to be a backmarker."

[KWSN - DSM]

Why Autosport would not use that?

 

I have a subscription to the supposed premier auto racing magazine in the world, paying for the privilege - a magazine covering among other F1, F2, F3, FAcademy, FE and yes WEC - Often are the times where qualifying results from F2 and F3 are not posted for days, the WEC race was covered quite extensively, yet no update of the standings so far. I can go many places for the standings, but Autosport should in my view be the place to go (which Wikipedia should never if looking assuredly correct information).

 

I do know the standings, the question is more, how can Autosport 5 days after the race not know, and why is this just umpteenth case of Autosport being far from updated.

 

http://www.fiawec.co...assification/34

 

Imola was April 20th, this week we have Spa 6 hours, Autosport have still not updated the standings to include Imola:

 

https://www.autospor...standings/2025/

 

Will they do so before first practice at Spa? Will they do so before end of the 6 hours at Spa?

[JHSingo]

Imola was April 20th, this week we have Spa 6 hours, Autosport have still not updated the standings to include Imola:

 

https://www.autospor...standings/2025/

 

Will they do so before first practice at Spa? Will they do so before end of the 6 hours at Spa?

 

I don't know if it's all connected, but since Autosport switched to being a monthly publication, it does seem like there's been a definite decline in anything non-F1 on the Autosport and Motorsport websites. Previously, the latter was my go-to place for finding session times and practice/quali results, but now it's a right pain finding what time things are on, or what's been happening - particularly when I don't use social media much anymore, either. 

I suppose if there were redundancies, the person who had the job of keeping all that updated was probably the first to go. 

[KWSN - DSM]

I don't know if it's all connected, but since Autosport switched to being a monthly publication, it does seem like there's been a definite decline in anything non-F1 on the Autosport and Motorsport websites. Previously, the latter was my go-to place for finding session times and practice/quali results, but now it's a right pain finding what time things are on, or what's been happening - particularly when I don't use social media much anymore, either. 

I suppose if there were redundancies, the person who had the job of keeping all that updated was probably the first to go. 

 

Back in the 80ies of the printed magazine the results pages in the back had you follow the drivers from nowhere to somewhere, and to follow drivers never leaving the lower rungs, yet racing year after year, these many years later I do not recall the names, but you got little snippets over the years, so doing so well at a literal shoestring that you wondered on a what could have been kind of way.

 

The Formula Ford festival was a real thing, there must have been hundreds of drivers showing up.

 

For all the modern stuff in the world, sometimes a printed weekly magazine beats all variations of online.

[rodnet1]

Why Autosport would not use that?

I have a subscription to the supposed premier auto racing magazine in the world, paying for the privilege - a magazine covering among other F1, F2, F3, FAcademy, FE and yes WEC - Often are the times where qualifying results from F2 and F3 are not posted for days, the WEC race was covered quite extensively, yet no update of the standings so far. I can go many places for the standings, but Autosport should in my view be the place to go (which Wikipedia should never if looking assuredly correct information).

I do know the standings, the question is more, how can Autosport 5 days after the race not know, and why is this just umpteenth case of Autosport being far from updated.

http://www.fiawec.co...assification/34

[rodnet1]

I just now discovered your post and I could not agree more! Everything other than F1, including WEC, Indycar, F2 and a lot of other series are not updated anymore and are generally not given any coverage. What the fxxk is the reason for maintaining a subscription when you can read all F1 news elsewhere (and sometimes even better) for free and all other series you might be interested in get zero coverage? The only part of the website that is worth the attention is the forum and that is free anyway. I really don't get it....

[juicy sushi]

It's a weekend at the Spa, and things have already kicked off.

 

 

FP1 and it's Ferrari, Ferrari, Alpine, Pug, Alpine, Pug at the top of the charts.  Maybe not representative of actual pace...

 

https://racer.com/wp...-Practice-1.pdf

Edited by juicy sushi, Yesterday, 14:30.

[FLB]

[Peat]

Absolute carnage yesterday in practice. Spa still has teeth!