698 replies to this topic

[jcbc3]

One thing I thought about when watching the race (on delay, which is why I wasn't around to yell at y'all).

 

In the middle stint where Lundgaard was leading he was, to my mind, obviously trying save gas. And when Palou caught up with St. Ingray and the commentator (Danish) started lambasting poor Robb for interfering with the race, I was yelling at the TV, that Palou had overtaken the adversaries by short filling, and he was extremely HAPPY about being in the draft of Robb for multiple laps. 

 

I may be wrong (hard to believe, I know), but wouldn't these two things (extreme gas saving), influence your charts, Frood?

[paulb]

Sure that would, but if those conditions happen to be part of the race then so be it.

[Jellyfishcake]

Palou had some startlingly good Super Formula results and came into Indycar with Coyne with a bit of a reputation as one to watch already. I think he'd have ended up somewhere good even without Ganassi taking a risk on him. Doubt he'd have three championships though.

 

Yeah 3rd overall in a debut season is a good outcome.

I think from a mix of memory and wiki, it's only the second season in GP3 where he really seemed to struggle, not the best team but an underperformance compared to both expectations at the time, and now in hindsight his talent.

Budget reasons really did stagnate his career around this time though, with 2015, 2016 in GP3, then 2017 in Japanese F3 and 2018 FIA F3 it felt like he was one of those destined to disappear into obscurity before getting that Super Formula season in 2019 which you must feel put him on the path that eventually led towards finally to IndyCar

 

Interestingly enough he raced against Shwartzman, Armstrong and DeFrancesco (kinda) in F3 in 2018, fairly certain his career has gone to places those are unlikely to reach in IndyCar.

Side note of that IndyNXT debutaunt Flörsch was also in F3 that season.

[Seppi_0_917PA]

...that Palou had overtaken the adversaries by short filling...

Yeah, while watching it was my impression that Palou got ahead by simply having the shortest final pitstop. (I didn't see pitstop times in the FOX graphics.     )

 

...And when Palou caught up with St. Ingray and the commentator (Danish) started lambasting poor Robb for interfering with the race, I was yelling at the TV, that Palou had overtaken the adversaries by short filling, and he was extremely HAPPY about being in the draft of Robb for multiple laps.

Great point!
 

One more chart:
 


This was great to have live during the race: https://livetiming.net/firestone/

    to IndyCar radio for covering some of the battles deeper in the field.
 
INDYCAR On FOX YouTube is new: https://www.youtube....PVIXNo_g/videos
 
And finally, Indycar 2025 St Pete: The Comedy Review  

[August]

How did Palou leapfrog Dixon and Newgarden? Was it a superb last stop plus in and outlaps? Talk about a ninja...

I think CGR had faster cars that Newgarden. Clean air for Alex and cold tires for Josef helped Alex past Josef. But why it didn’t work for Dixon may have been the radio issues. I mean, do you dare to touch P2P when you get the fuel warning without radio communication to the pits. And of course, Josef’s tires were then already warmed up, helping also him to pass Scott.

[juicy sushi]

I think CGR had faster cars that Newgarden. Clean air for Alex and cold tires for Josef helped Alex past Josef. But why it didn’t work for Dixon may have been the radio issues. I mean, do you dare to touch P2P when you get the fuel warning without radio communication to the pits. And of course, Josef’s tires were then already warmed up, helping also him to pass Scott.

 I think that Newgarden being on fumes helped Palou late on as rather than attack as we all expected, Newgarden likely was having to hold back to ensure he made it to the finish.  

[loki]

This is common nowadays. I assume that the TV hosts thinks that all people has 100+ inches TVs

To be fair many perhaps most over here have 65” plus screens.  The 84”s are becoming more common as prices drop. It’s aimed at the US market.  We aren't going that big but on a 55” it’s just bordering too big and big enough to be annoying.  My beef is the one of font size and contrast and some of the info.  Used to be the Indycar international feed was graphics and commentary free.  

[Disgrace]

In another era, he'd already be there.

 

Yeah, Frank Williams would totally have hired him in the late 90s or early 20s.

 

On another note, I thought Buxton did well. This might change as he becomes more chummy with the drivers, more of an insider, etc. but it was a good debut.

[red stick]

Review. Questions answered.

https://racer.com/20...takeaways-from-
indycars-season-opener-at-st-pete/

[paulb]

Review. Questions answered.

https://racer.com/20...takeaways-from-
indycars-season-opener-at-st-pete/

I’m surprised he thought Foyt would be closer to Penske.

I do feel bad for McLaughlin, but he and half the field were hit by the pre-race tire selection anvil.

[Myrvold]

On another note, I thought Buxton did well. This might change as he becomes more chummy with the drivers, more of an insider, etc. but it was a good debut.

 

I was a bit surprised. I might've forgotten how he commentated in F2 and F3 where I really liked him. I felt like he was. Commentating Very Much. Like This. With How He Was. building up all the sentences and suddenly speaking with a flow. And Then He Went. Back To Some. Weird Way Of. Speaking Again.

[Disgrace]

Yeah, I think that was probably him trying to avoid saying something egregiously wrong, given that it was day one. And I don't think he did, so it was the right approach.

[Seppi_0_917PA]

Full Race Replay is already up on YouTube !!!

 

 

Yay!

[juicy sushi]

Apparently Donald’s tariffs included Canadian access to the replay…

[BRG]

I know it's fun to bash Andretti, but they did have 5th and 6th place finishes in this race.

Not to mention 1st, 2nd and 5th in NXT.

 

Hauger's dominant performance (pole and flag to flag lead) bodes well for a strong season, a series win  and a move to the big league NXT year to join the Indycar Scandi brigade which is gradually overwhelming it.

[Peat]

Apparently Donald’s tariffs included Canadian access to the replay…

 

Not available in UK either. Thank goodness for VPN's.

[jonpollak]

Obvious FOX will ring fence the product but if they don’t have an avenue for on-demand outside a cable subscription this may be the best way to keep the Indycar in front of US viewers.

I wonder if Sky’s contract allows the same ?
I doubt it.
Jp

[FLB]

Interesting. Dixon's radio issue may trigger a rule change: https://racer.com/20...-radio-problem/

[Risil]

Sounds like a can of worms if the radio was working, but only intermittently.

[Afterburner]

Palou is easily the best IndyCar driver since, well, Dixon, but it shouldn’t be understated how insane his run of good luck has been for the last four years. This race alone he had Power causing the yellow nerfing McLaughlin out of contention, Herta’s fuel problem taking him out, Dixon’s radio issue causing him to stop sub-optimally, and Newgarden running out of fuel. Dixon particularly has been hit pretty hard by the IndyCar wheel of misfortune over the last few years, from Dodgy Sets of Firestones to Mysterious Engine Issues or Randomly Belligerent Backmarkers. Even this year he’s already had the engine give out within 10 miles and the radio issue.

Bell and Hinch were remarking on Palou’s luck last year, too, when he not only managed to have the chaos happen around him at Iowa but also happen in a way that kept him on the lead lap. Yeah, he had the engine issue in Milwaukee, but do you remember what happened at the very next venue? Will Power does!

Obviously Palou is a rare talent and has been the class of the field practically since he’s been at Ganassi. His margin over the rest has been inflated by a seemingly impervious run of good fortune though, in my opinion.

[Risil]

I don't think Palou has been particularly lucky at Indy. And I imagine that if you're talking about a span of 70 or so races, out of which Palou has won three championships in four, you make your own luck.

[red stick]

The Napoleon
Maxim applies; give me a
driver who's lucky!

[Anja]

I think another part of Palou's success is that in many respects he's a very similar driver to Dixon and seems to be able to easily apply all the tricks, strategies, etc that Ganassi and Dixon developed in their 20+ years working together - something that many other drivers in that team couldn't quite crack. So without taking anything away from him it's a particular driver + team combo that elevates his results to another level, simply a perfect fit. 

Edited by Anja, 04 March 2025 - 13:52.

[juicy sushi]

Palou has been very open about how much he has learned from sitting next to Dixon, but first you have to be willing to listen to the lessons, which is to his credit.  And he's also been very open that while he tries to learn everything he can, some things are beyond him (like Dixon's superhuman ability to squeeze out maximum fuel economy).  He has been lucky to benefit from the misfortune of others, but his talent has been in consistently finding all of the speed possible to put himself in those positions at every race.  He's not dramatically faster than anyone else, but he has learned the lesson of doing everything possible to maximize his opportunities in races.  That's been a very mature talent for a young driver.  O'Ward and Herta are only now figuring this out.

[Jim Thurman]

A few random observations/comments. I was away all weekend, at a get-together of racing historians* at a museum, having a round table discussion on past, present and future projects and preserving motorsports history. But, enough about me and my not sharing   ...

 

On Fox's coverage. To me, a mixed bag. I found most of the comments here, both good and bad, pretty spot on. Buxton did well. Harvey as well. A serious lack of mentioning the P2P until Bell and Hinch got to it in the last few laps. And only the top 2 then. I wanted to know how well Dixon had conserved his (as he usually does). Then again, that was a common fail on NBC as well.  

 

Don't put Buxton's exaggeration about Odiham on "The Americans", that was all him. On my way to and from the museum, I passed through a rural California town with a population of 1,861. If I'd have gone a different way, I'd have passed through a place with a population of 62 (!). There are still a lot of small towns and wide open spaces. We've got places in the U.S. that make Odiham seem metropolitan    

 

On the lengthy on board of Pato O'Ward. To quote NASCAR driver/commentator Benny Parsons: "They (the sponsors) paid a lot of money for that camera", so they're going to show it.

 

Showing all the pits stops is because they can't otherwise keep up (or feel the viewers aren't capable of it   ) with the ever-changing positions. Or, perhaps they can't be bothered. ABC/ESPN did that, NBC did that...rinse. lather. repeat.

 

The long-running trope of crashes: in the montage during the open and in the ad for Thermal. I have no idea what Jack Turner barrel-rolling down the front straight at Indianapolis during practice in 1963 has to do with Thermal.

Edited by Jim Thurman, 04 March 2025 - 19:06.

[jonpollak]

TV numbers UP 45%
https://x.com/A_S12/...942064748880128

Jp

[Jim Thurman]

 

Bad: The oversize left column of timing graphic making my moderately sized TV screen go from a 16:9 aspect ratio devoted to action to a 4:3 reminding me of a cathode ray tube throwback.  My teenage son thought the anime heads for the top five drivers were lame, and I agree.  Scotty Mac's reminded me of Zippy the Pinhead, and now I can't unsee it.

 

Bad: Does the Fox budget not include stat/analyst support?  It seemed like Bell and Hinch didn't have anyone backing them up, keeping an eye on racecontrol for different angles.  There was no correlation to pit windows as the strategy options started to emerge later in the race, no mention of relative lap times, it was up to the viewer to cross reference timing to figure it out.

 

Bad: Celebrity BS.  A-Rod?  Good for him, he made millions as a steroid swilling pretty boy who never delivered in the clutch.  I don't think baseball fans really miss him.  He actually had me wishing they'd called up Jeter, and I hate the Yankees.  Stop copying F1 like that.

Bad 1: the anime heads. Very, very FOX.

 

Bad 2: It did seem like Bell and Hinch were flying on their own. I wonder if FOX didn't budget any stats folks, or they were inexperienced, or what. No historical facts, which is very, very FOX. I'm available, but not too keen on flying/driving around the country.

 

Bad 3: A-Rod was only there because, FOX. He is on their baseball studio show on air team. This, again, is very FOX, nothing to do with copying F1. Watching, I jokingly said to my brother: "Will we see anyone in the two-seater the rest of the year that isn't connected to FOX." He replied with an eye roll and a "What do you think?"     When FOX got NASCAR, every anthem had to be done by someone connected to American Idol...on FOX!

 

Yankee hater or not, A-Rod is hardly D-list. Only to folks overseas, or those unfamiliar with baseball, but again, it matters little, because FOX!

 

These are the concerns I had with FOX doing the broadcasts. I think you've hit on all of them    

[Risil]

TV numbers UP 45%
https://x.com/A_S12/...942064748880128

Jp

Nice

[jonpollak]

Cheeky meme.


Jp

[August]

Palou is easily the best IndyCar driver since, well, Dixon, but it shouldn’t be understated how insane his run of good luck has been for the last four years. This race alone he had Power causing the yellow nerfing McLaughlin out of contention, Herta’s fuel problem taking him out, Dixon’s radio issue causing him to stop sub-optimally, and Newgarden running out of fuel.

It’s also about capitalizing those moments luck is on your side. Last year luck was against him in the 2nd Milwaukee race and Power was on the way to take the driver’s seat in the championship before he dropped the ball.

[loki]

TV numbers UP 45%
https://x.com/A_S12/...942064748880128

Jp

 

 

Nice

 

Yep.  Instead of 1000 of us watching 1450 watched.      I kill me…

 

It should keep getting over a mil if it leads Cup.  The 500 could be in for a nice boost too.  There are some teething pains but all in all they did pretty well.  Even of the intro graphics were like a methed out weasel that dipped his knutsack in hot wax.  How many of those viewers will stick with it?  That’s the question.  I’m optimistic some will as they’ll all be on Fox.  Opps, sorry.  I meant FOX.

[Jim Thurman]

I’m optimistic some will as they’ll all be on Fox.  Opps, sorry.  I meant FOX.

Always caps. Always. Don't let it happen again or they'll come and get you! 

 

There was something else I ran across, while catching up on the posts, that I wanted to mention, but to quote a Camper van Beethoven line: "but I forget what it was."

 

I did think FOX did some things well, as pointed out by some here. I don't want to come off as the typical Negative Norman of the internet. Or Donnie Doom or Gordon Gloom.  

[Anja]

FWIW Hinch said on his podcast that he expects the broadcast to be very different by the end of the season. They knew it would take time to get everything right and will adjust things as they figure it out. 

[Afterburner]

Always caps. Always. Don't let it happen again or they'll come and get you!

Apparently nobody noticed the NTT INDYCAR SERIES does the same thing.

[red stick]

It's Ash Wednesday in Louisiana. I'm going to politely ask each of you to stop shouting.

[loki]

Get any beads?

[red stick]

Our practice is to hand them to nearby children or people with more limited mobility. Got enough stuff at home.

[Jim Thurman]

It's Ash Wednesday in Louisiana. I'm going to politely ask each of you to stop shouting.

Does this mean I have to give up spelling it FOX for Lent? 

 

edit: corrected typo.

Edited by Jim Thurman, 06 March 2025 - 01:02.

[red stick]

Quietly, Jim.
q-u-i-e-t-l-y.

[nissan_gtp]

Apparently nobody noticed the NTT INDYCAR SERIES does the same thing.

 

Saves money, no need for lowercase letters.

[BRG]

Does this mean I have to give up spelling it FOX for lent? 

I think you will find that is Lent with a capital L.  But how to deal with Indy NXT?  

[red stick]

Happiness about nearly everything, save the nature of the St. Pete races.
https://racer.com/20...pener-in-years/

[Jim Thurman]

I think you will find that is Lent with a capital L.  But how to deal with Indy NXT?  

Apologies, and corrected. I thought it was, but was doing a quick reply before heading out. Also, not being one of the faithful contributed.

 

How to deal with Indy NXT? I deal with it by ignoring the name  *

 

*not the drivers or series, just the name  

[juicy sushi]

Apologies, and corrected. I thought it was, but was doing a quick reply before heading out. Also, not being one of the faithful contributed.

 

How to deal with Indy NXT? I deal with it by ignoring the name  *

 

*not the drivers or series, just the name  

I just keep calling it Indy Lights in my head.  Although I don't call LMP2 Camel Lights in IMSA, but that's because I don't feel like worshipping an old sponsor.

[jonpollak]

"Prema  LAP"

Live @ Prema.

 

Jp

[davidbuckden]

Interesting. Dixon's radio issue may trigger a rule change: https://racer.com/20...-radio-problem/

The Dixon radio issue.  I've been surprised by how much comment there was in sympathy with him, to the effect that it was heroic that he carried on without any on-air communications.  'I know it's me age,' but there are aspects of today's racing that seem pathetic when you think about what the drivers were getting up to/having to put up with in the 50s-80s.  It would be good in 2025 if drivers once again had to drive their own race themselves without all sorts of information, advice and virtual coaching from their pit. 

 

I see there's a strand of Palou detraction here - I don't think 'luck' has much to do with his success and I do wish we could see him in F1.

[FLB]

[jonpollak]

I see your Palou and I raise you this.

Jp

[loki]

Uhhh, what?